quote:

Originally posted by pedropcola:
I’m glad you guys are wringing out the kinks. EV would work for me if I was willing to buy an extra car for short daily driving. Not only am I not willing, it’s funny how the very idea of a dedicated commuter car in addition to an ICE car is wildly defeating of the environmentally friendly idea of the EV. No math makes the manufacture and use of two complete cars more environmentally sound than just one ICE.

I am very leery of banking on the next big step in tech. That’s a leap of faith that isn’t justified. When I buy an alternative source motor vehicle it will be one that has already figured out the bumps. Right now we are basically letting the richer folk in America beta test EV. Good for you guys. Unless the current blueprint doesn’t stay the future blueprint.

Environment friendly? I think you need to quit with that. None of us are liberals here. I didn't get an EV to save the Trees, or the Animals, or any of that bullshit. I got one because of one single thing, $$$. Between the solar panels on the house and daily driving a cheap EV, I save thousands per year in kwh and gasoline costs. I've been doing this for 7 years and long tired of hearing that environment bullshit. That's some liberal nonsense and it's repeated ad nauseam. That's not why many acquire an electric vehicle. You want to save the environment? The only thing that will save it is a reduction in population. It's not cow farts, cars, coal, or anything else. If there is an issue with the Earth, the environment, it's because there are too many people on the planet. This population is just not sustainable. Food waste is a much bigger problem than emissions. We have to grow/raise 1.5 times the food we use because there is so much food waste. We waste 50% of our food. it's conservative values to say hey don't waste your food. You eat what's on the plate.

I do agree with you that if you're buying an EV as a second car just to use kwh instead of gas, yeah you aren't saving any money, you are spending more, much more. Now if you are replacing an ICE vehicle by buying an EV and selling or trading ICE to get it, then maybe. All depends on a number of factors. Prices on both vehicles, monthly gas use vs kwh cost, so many factors including insurance.

For me, a daily driver makes financial sense. But I choose a cheap/inexpensive daily driver. For my use the math and financials check out. I bought a new truck last year, a compact, but brand new. It was $33.5k. It's loaded as well. Saved me 15-20k compared to going to a full size which I don't need. And mine handles pavement better than any truck made. Due to having a DD the truck gets used on the weekends only and will last 20+ years. Because the donkey, EV (Leaf) gets all the local use. And EV requires relatively no maintenance whatsoever. Insurance on it is cheap. I'm out $19.5k all in, from day 1 of the lease deal until I bought it from them and ultimately paid it off. $19.5k for a brand new car that is loaded, with heated seats front and rear, heated steering wheel, Bose premium audio, and navigation system, was a good deal for me. Try to find a new commuter or DD for under 20k OTD, it's not easy work. Bonus to having it is IDGAF. I mean I wash it, wax it 1-2 times a year but I don't cry if it gets a scratch or a rock chip. And one of the main benefits for me is I have redundancy. The Leaf has never given me a single issue, no reliability issues, no maintenance issues, and no warranty issues. But the day it does, well I won't even be late for work or an appointment because I have a truck also (and other vehicles). Back into the house for the other keyfob and I'm on my way. Can deal with fixing it later.

For me I'm not daily driving anything that is say for talking sake, 30k or more. Makes no sense for my use. Depreciation, MSRP's continually to rise, etc. When you do the math on say a brand new full size truck. 50k. Then it's your only vehicle. You sit in bumper to bumper traffic with it, rack miles on it every day of the year, etc. Well it's not going to last you. Many people trade in every 3, 4 or 5 years. 50k vehicle with normal depreciation then the mileage, perhaps it goes out of warranty, you'll get what for it in 5 years? 20k maybe. Math/financials check out to where it's better financially, long term, to drive something cheap and efficient every day. Something that gets great gas mileage. If I didn't have solar panels to make fueling my DD relatively free, I'd be DD'ing a Honda Fit or some other efficient, small (easy to park anywhere) gas vehicle. The added bonus is nobody pays these small cars any mind. Not the police nor thieves, it does the opposite of attract attention.

The added bonus is I only have to hit a gas station once a month up and maybe these days once every 6 weeks for the truck. I charge the DD at home in the garage. No oil changes, no nothing on it. EV's make sense for cheap commuter cars, daily drivers, etc, provided you can get one cheap. A 50k Tesla is a lifestyle vehicle, not an economic purchase. Part luxury vehicle, part "quick" or fast daily driver, etc. Someone mentioned a go cart earlier in the thread, that's exactly how I feel about mine. It's just road legal with unibody construction, airbags, safety etc. I've beat the holy shit out of it too driving it like a sportscar, full throttle all the time, because I don't care if I'm wasteful with my own kwh because I make it myself. If you see me in it I'm not hypermiling it in the slow lane like some douche hybrid driver. I'm in the fast lane doing 90 mph getting my shit done.

Nice rant

Agree. For me this is not jumping on any kind of bandwagon. This is just financials to me for the life of the vehicle purchase. My two choices are EV or ICE and both choices are vehicles about $30-33K. But EV seems to lead to an appreciably lower TCO over a 10-15 year period, all things considered. The hearsay (friends and family that own an EV) of much less maintenance is attractive.

I'm not jumping on a bandwagon. I've no love for EV per se. Or the environmental bullshit. Just the bottom line financials.

If reliability and/or safety is compromised, that would sway me. The long term aspects of EV for when I'm six feet under, could not care less.

Yeah, environmental evangelism isn't even on the radar for me.

For me, the attraction of an EV is the convenience of never having to get gas for my wife's car, using the excess power generated from my (future) solar panels, lower maintenance and increased reliability of fewer moving parts, and better performance and safety.

Still future? you’re the one who triggered me to getting it.

FYI. I’m finding winter production here is at best about half of summer production. But still a healthy surplus.

quote:

Originally posted by konata88:
Still future? you’re the one who triggered me to getting it.

FYI. I’m finding winter production here is at best about half of summer production. But still a healthy surplus.

Tell it to my wife.

She has zero experience with anything construction or trade related, but somehow has this notion that anything over $500 charged by any sort of tradesperson is a scam. It's absolutely absurd. "New roof? Why isn't that like $500?"

So, anyway, an extra $7-8k to replace the roof underlayment needs like an economist's PhD dissertation and a letter from a congressman to get approval from my wife.

My guess is that she's waiting a few months to see how our raises, bonuses, and taxes shake out. Sigh.

quote:

Originally posted by Aeteocles:
She has zero experience with anything construction or trade related, but somehow has this notion that anything over $500 charged by any sort of tradesperson is a scam. It's absolutely absurd. "New roof? Why isn't that like $500?"

Sounds like Lucy...That will be 5 Cents

I would have thought, with her being in Real Estate, that she'd have a better grasp of the cost of home repair when prepping houses before listing them.

Better to justify a new roof than to have reasoning of why we can't afford a new LV handbag fall on deaf ears

I'm thinking solar break even will be shorter than anticipated if I get the EV. Even if I lower the thermostat to 72F in the summer.

quote:

Originally posted by 9mmepiphany:

quote:

Originally posted by Aeteocles:
She has zero experience with anything construction or trade related, but somehow has this notion that anything over $500 charged by any sort of tradesperson is a scam. It's absolutely absurd. "New roof? Why isn't that like $500?"

Sounds like Lucy...That will be 5 Cents

I would have thought, with her being in Real Estate, that she'd have a better grasp of the cost of home repair when prepping houses before listing them.

You would think, but she relies heavily on me for that sort of thing.

quote:

Originally posted by konata88:
Better to justify a new roof than to have reasoning of why we can't afford a new LV handbag fall on deaf ears

I'm thinking solar break even will be shorter than anticipated if I get the EV. Even if I lower the thermostat to 72F in the summer.

Unfortunately, I'm the enabler in this household and I would not be unhappy if she spent a little more money to class it up a bit. We live more than a tier or two below our means as far as I'm concerned, but I guess that's better than the alternative.

Funny thing is that she wasn't like this when we met. Oh well.

I don’t know your situation but outside looking in, I’d say you’re very lucky she understands and respects how hard it is to make a buck and has left the capricious spending of her single days behind. Living below your means may allow the joys of retirement earlier.

quote:

Originally posted by RVF400:
Everyday something new comes out.

SONDORS ANNOUNCES A $5000 ELECTRIC MOTORCYCLE
Sondors, an American brand of electric bikes that started with a crowdfunding campaign in 2015 has just announced their first motorcycle. Called the Metacycle, it features a space-age design, using a 8000W permanent magnet AC hub motor (nominal, 14.5kW peak) and a 4000Wh battery, and will cost $5000. This is a pretty astonishing price, considering the performance. They claim an 80 mile range, and a top speed of 80 mph, but with anything electric, don’t expect to get that claimed range going at the top speed.
https://electricbikeaction.com...electric-motorcycle/

Pickman-XR---The-Coolest-Utility-Pickup-
Off-Road, On-Road & Beyond.
4x4, Dual Motor, 10kW Motor at the rear axle, 5kW Motor at the front axle
Various speed modes, Dual lithium battery packs
Fast-swap in or power electronics, Solar charging capable
Drive On Public Roads
Class, Leading, Performance
3 ton towing & 1 ton payload
125* mile range per charge
Top speed (off road) of 60mph+
https://www.thepickman.com/?fb...T9dN6hRf-iWdasvYeH3U

The Sondor popped up in my news feed this morning. Would be a perfect work commuter, on back roads, for me.

Maybe when/if we upgrade our current 1.5kw solar array it will make a bit more sense to have an EV for a commuter.
But I also work in O&G, would definitely get some looks pulling up in an EV.

quote:

Originally posted by konata88:
I don’t know your situation but outside looking in, I’d say you’re very lucky she understands and respects how hard it is to make a buck and has left the capricious spending of her single days behind. Living below your means may allow the joys of retirement earlier.

Lol. Retirement. No, I suspect that we will be hustling until we're dead, simply because that's what drives us.

quote:

Originally posted by P250UA5:
The Sondor popped up in my news feed this morning. Would be a perfect work commuter, on back roads, for me.

Maybe when/if we upgrade our current 1.5kw solar array it will make a bit more sense to have an EV for a commuter.
But I also work in O&G, would definitely get some looks pulling up in an EV.

I still think these motorcycles are the better commuter solution for an EV at current. Way less buy in cost, quicker to recharge, and all the other advantages of EV tech, along with less parking requirements.

quote:

Originally posted by Aeteocles:
Funny thing is that she wasn't like this when we met. Oh well.

Back then she was thinking, "When we're married, I'll be able to change his free spending ways....so that we too can be Crazy Rich Asians"

quote:

Originally posted by Aeteocles:
Lol. Retirement. No, I suspect that we will be hustling until we're dead, simply because that's what drives us.

Got to save up for those SAT Prep courses starting in the 3rd grade...I'm sure they'll start considering SAT scores again. And then there's always getting ready to endow a wing at Harvard...as opposed to getting on the Crew Team

quote:

Originally posted by 9mmepiphany:

quote:

Originally posted by Aeteocles:
Funny thing is that she wasn't like this when we met. Oh well.

Back then she was thinking, "When we're married, I'll be able to change his free spending ways....so that we too can be Crazy Rich Asians"

Hey, buying privilege is expensive, mmkay? Trust fund ain't gonna build itself.

quote:

Originally posted by bigdeal:

quote:

Originally posted by P250UA5:
The Sondor popped up in my news feed this morning. Would be a perfect work commuter, on back roads, for me.

Maybe when/if we upgrade our current 1.5kw solar array it will make a bit more sense to have an EV for a commuter.
But I also work in O&G, would definitely get some looks pulling up in an EV.

I still think these motorcycles are the better commuter solution for an EV at current. Way less buy in cost, quicker to recharge, and all the other advantages of EV tech, along with less parking requirements.

4hrs to charge on 110v. Could just bring it in to the office & charge at my desk for the drive home.

quote:

Originally posted by jimmy123x:
Hydrogen is also extremely flammable, so that presents another hurdle as far as crash test certifications go.

It's not as big of a problem as you might think. Natural gas is extremely flammable too, and we have no problem with natural gas powered cars, except the damn tanks take up too much trunk space, which is really annoying when it's a small taxi in another country and you are leaving the airport with a coworker for 2-3 weeks in country.

Trust me, I thought of all the negatives about hydrogen fueled vehicles and have raised many concerns to idealists - namely that we have to generate more electricity to create the hydrogen which means a lot more load on the already taxed power grids. But now that I am actually involved with it, and the strategy is to run hydrolyzes (water separators) at nuclear plants during off-peak demand, essentially allowing the reactor to run continuously at stable load and diverting the load between the grid and they hydrolyzers as needed, it makes a lot more sense.

Battery technology is limited by the potential chemical energy of the reaction and the efficiency of the reaction. While we can improve the efficiency, we are still limited by the available chemical energy, and I am not convinced we will ever develop a battery that can power a Class 8 tractor rig and trailer to haul 80,000 lbs far enough to be useful, and allow charging times that don't sideline the truck way too long. But that hasn't stopped CA from more or less outlawing diesel engines by 2025, with technologically unfeasible mandates for reductions in NOX emissions.

But all of this is predicated on the need to get rid of fossil fuels due to global warming, and that is something most of us here are very skeptical about.

For the record I drive a 2017 Honda Civic Si 6-speed manual. With a tiny 1.5L DI Turbo engine running 20 psi of boost (factory not modded) making over 200 hp but getting 40 MPG on the highway and 30-ish in town. It's not quite as fun as my old WRX's but it's enough, and it's light with outstanding handling for a front driver. Only cost me like $23K too. With a car like this available at such a low price, I have no interest in EV's.

GM Launches BrightDrop, a New Business That Will Electrify and Improve the Delivery of Goods and Services
2021-01-12



GM’s new business will offer an integrated ecosystem of electric products, software and services for the first to last mile
BrightDrop’s electric pallet, the EP1, will be available in early 2021, and its electric light commercial vehicle, the EV600, will be on roads in late 2021
BrightDrop introduces GM’s Ultium platform to the commercial vehicle segment, and features Level 2 and DC fast charging capabilities
FedEx Express will be the first customer of the new, integrated solution


https://media.gm.com/media/us/...fT4WRxYaBIQMoZYKOEyE

The safety problems with hydrogen are not the same as for LNG. The hydrogen molecule is the smallest of all materials and very difficult to prevent leaking. It can actually migrate out of solid metal containers if they are thin enough. Seals to contain it are very difficult, particularly because of the high pressures involved. Another concern is that because hydrogen burns with an invisible flame, one could have a fire and not even be aware of it until it is too late. Crashworthiness of containers is also an issue. Remember the bad publicity of the Pinto in rear end crashes? I think the problem with hydrogen-powered vehicles would be even more concerting.

Fortunately, I'm old enough that my current Mustang 2006 will probably last longer than I do. And I'm just young enough to like the sound of a good V-8 with a nice exhaust system. I don't want a silent car. (I like Harley-Davidson motorcycles, too.)

Color me a dyed-in-the-wool gasoline-powered car lover.

flashguy