Read David Fessler's book, "The Energy Disruption Triangle". EV cars are here to stay and the technology will improve as time marches on. Tesla already has a battery that last one million miles.

Also look at EXRO Technology which has a motor that switches the windings from series to parallel operation for increased torque.

Thanks for that tip. I'll keep an eye out for an entry.

I post on Investors Village were you can do your DD. This stock is still under the radar.

https://www.investorvillage.co...bd.asp?mb=19942&pt=m

The Wall Street Journal had a great video today showcasing the trials and tribulations of owning an EV. They had 8 different reporters in 8 different countries showcase their experiences and it was very interesting. The article is probably behind a paywall but if you have access I strongly recommend watching it.

Basically where you live and where you want (hope) to go will have a lot to do with your satisfaction of owning an EV. In the US traveling any longer distance will be, for the most part a time consuming event. As one reporter, from Raleigh said it’s great for running around town but you’ll need an ICE for any significant travel.
It was also interesting to note that most EV manufacturers have not integrated charging stations into their GPS like Tesla has done which makes finding stations much easier...

Agree. And for my usages and my situation, I expect EV to largely meet my needs except for a monthly trip beyond the range of a single charge. Dispositioning this as not a block to adoption but it will be a monthly inconvenience. Just not enough to block the overall expected utility.

What I don't know and continue to get mixed inputs is reliability. TCO is one key factor but so is overall reliability. Lower TCO vs ICE is good but NOT at the cost of reliability. Don't want my wife to be stuck somewhere.

EV would work for us as 90% of the driving is locally, you can always rent an ICE vehicle and we're just 15 minutes from an airport with plenty of rental companies for long trips.

The hybrid ford F150 is interesting, it's engine price is up $3500 over stock, less than half that of a diesel... The only issue is, that provides a large area for unknown reliability, parts, expenses, repair costs since it's a first year model..

The gas models could run 1400 gallons of fuel before the EV breaks even with them on cost to operate at a $2.50 per gallon price to offset the hybrids cost. at 15 MPG average that's 21,000 miles to B/E

However you would have the advantage of getting the thumbs up from the barista at Startbucks for being ecologically sound...

HRK, you haven't included the fuel costs for the hybrid. The breakeven is about 108,000 miles assuming the hybrid gets 19 mpg. Road and Track says the hybrid gets 4mpg better. The BE is 170,000 miles if you use the EPA 20mpg and 24mpg numbers.

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quote:

Originally posted by HRK:
The hybrid ford F150 is interesting, it's engine price is up $3500 over stock, less than half that of a diesel... The only issue is, that provides a large area for unknown reliability, parts, expenses, repair costs since it's a first year model..

Everything I know thus far concerning the 2021 F150 tells me to stay as far away from that vehicle as possible. Heck, they still can't even get the first few hundred built out of their manufacturer storage lots and into dealer inventory given all the assembly issues they've found. And that is coming from someone who has been driving an F150 for 20 years.

quote:

Originally posted by bigdeal:

quote:

Originally posted by shoupdawg:
That said, in the next 5-10 years, we will have charging stations that will charge as fast or faster than current gas stations and also new vehicles with longer ranges...this will be the beginning of the end for gas powered vehicles.

Got $100 you want to put on that prediction? Until we see a huge jump in current battery tech, fast charging an EV battery in 5 minutes isn't happening. Range is also something dependent on that next battery tech innovation as there is a limit on what manufacturers are going to be able to get out of current battery tech. And something most EV enthusiasts fail to reconcile, where will all this new electricity come from to power these EV's? The leftists won't allow the use of anything petroleum based to generate power, and since nuclear is out, that doesn't leave a solution. Your state can't even meet its current day electricity requirements without rolling blackouts.

My prediction...the internal combustion vehicle is going to be around for a very long time into the future, well beyond my remaining life span. Does that mean there is no role for EV's? Nope. It just means that until something really game changing occurs with battery tech, the role of EV's will continue to be very limited, regardless the wet dreams of politicians and tree huggers.

Good point on the electricity source. That said, I still believe we'll get something in the next 5-10 years that will big a game changer battery charging wise (e.g., in 5 minutes). And if a European country can have a surplus of electricity from it's wind farms, solar farms, etc., I'm betting America can too so we'd be able to solve for that. And if this work from home thing becomes more prevalent after we lick Covid, I'd say EV adoption will accelerate all the more. Lots of if's, but just my guess. And I think that will mark the beginning of the end for gas powered, but we'll still have fossil fueled vehicles for as long as we have fossil fuels...generations even because individuals, governments, and militaries will still want fossil fueled. But if it's "better" (e.g., less cost, better output, etc.) I see that militaries and governments will switch to EV before individuals. They don't care about the environment, they care about performance.

I for one will be keeping my gas powered vehicles for as long as I can.

quote:

Originally posted by konata88:

quote:

Originally posted by shoupdawg:
I think Tesla's overpriced and the quality isn't that good. My parents own one and many of my friends.

Bottom line: would buy again or done with EV?

I don't have a Tesla (I have a Chevy Volt I got for a song) and I wouldn't buy one even if I won the lotto. Would I buy another EV? Yes, if it was cheaper overall than a gas powered. I got solar installed about a year or so ago. Even pre-covid, my work and shopping etc. commute was well within the range of the Volt. So it actually is cheaper for me to take my Volt around than my scooters/motorcycle because the solar more than covers my usage here in SoCal. But it's not as fun and I get preferential bike parking at work.

Wife's car is a Tesla Y.

It cost about the same as the loaded 4runner she sold for it. She wanted something easier to pull the baby in and out of, and more cargo capacity while still being capable in the snow and fun to drive.

It does all of it. We love it, I'm a hardcore gearhead and I'm rather fond of the outright speed. And she got the normal dual motor, not the performance. Those must be REALLY goddam fast...

So ours charges off a normal 120 jack at a rate of 5 miles/hour, or 40-50 miles overnight. Her commute is only 30 miles round-trip, with an errand or two, so it's easy to keep it charged. If we have to we can get aboot 300 miles of range topped off. I wouldn't hesitate to go on a slightly extended road trip mapped by charging stations. The "enhanced" cruise control is something else. I get a kick out of that shit as an engineer. There's a lotta work in these things.

We didn't buy it to save money. We bought it because it is the perfect family car for my crazy and nerdy family.

I think EVs are inevitable. But my main concern with them is the lack of infrastructure to support them. And the cost of bringing that infrastructure online. And the cost of its use.
Example:
I now live in a 4 townhouse building. In order to efficiently (and I dont view 110V as efficient, at least not now) My landlord would have to install 4 220V chargers. And you can bet that will reflect in my rent, as will the cost of the juice my EV needs.
Does not look all that cost effective me to go EV.

Tesla charging map

https://www.tesla.com/findus?b...estination%20charger

I'm seriously thinking about a Pickman XR for $16k.
For around here it would be pretty good.
https://www.thepickman.com/?fb...T9dN6hRf-iWdasvYeH3U

quote:

Originally posted by Aglifter:

.....I didn’t realize how well hydrogen fuel cells are working now - and a NG fuel cell would be a great energy source for a car, if they could get those to the same efficiency as the hydrogen ones.

(The hydrogen will still, probably, be made from NG, but it could work well.).

Or, he’ll, just switching cars to run in Ng would be simple, and cheap, and greatly increase our energy independence.

The problem of course with renewables is they typically are sporadic so some kinds of energy storage are required to utilize the excess solar electricity on a sunny day, wind electricity on a 70 degree windy Spring day, etc. Mitsubishi is utilizing surplus electricity to make hydrogen which can be stored to be used when renewables are not producing. This waste energy could also be used for powering vehicles.
https://www.changeinpower.com/...the-hydrogen-effect/

quote:

Originally posted by trapper189:
HRK, you haven't included the fuel costs for the hybrid. The breakeven is about 108,000 miles assuming the hybrid gets 19 mpg. Road and Track says the hybrid gets 4mpg better. The BE is 170,000 miles if you use the EPA 20mpg and 24mpg numbers.

True, I was just showing that the cost difference takes at least a year if not two to recover in fuel costs to expense of option.

Agree there's no realistic BE on EV or Hybrids, it's time to trade the EV by the time you get to BE....

quote:

Originally posted by konata88:
Agree. And for my usages and my situation, I expect EV to largely meet my needs except for a monthly trip beyond the range of a single charge. Dispositioning this as not a block to adoption but it will be a monthly inconvenience. Just not enough to block the overall expected utility.

From 2014-2017 the EV was my only automobile (still had motorcycles) with it's wonderful 84 mile range. On the odd occasion I needed range, like going out of town, for a trip, I just rented a gas vehicle. But I tended to always do that in the past as well because of the optional insurance coverage that would be zero liability to me. Here in TX, the spring it can hail so I've always rented a vehicle during these time where I needed to go out of town for a gig, for business, etc. Several times I'd hit hail, it'd be the shit out of the vehicle, and all I had to do was file a report with the rental company. Zero liability to me, zero using my personal insurance, etc. The 84 mile range was a factor, occasionally, for local use but I'd look up where the closest chademo was and charge for like 10 minutes. Just a top off to get home. Other times, like going to friends houses, I'd just plug in when I got there with the Nissan supplied wall charger.

With the $ savings over gas, even factoring in renting a gas vehicle a few times a year, the EV still won out in the $ department.

quote:

Originally posted by bigeinkcmo:

quote:

Originally posted by RVF400:
Tesla charging map

https://www.tesla.com/findus?b...estination%20charger

Thanks for posting. This is my first time seeing their charging map, I have to say I'm actually impressed. I could go from CO to WI with ample stations. I didn't realize that was even possible with their network.

That doesn’t show the 3rd party charging stations.

Take a look at plug share and ChargePoint maps also

Walmart started installing charging stations at their locations close to an interstate last year.

https://www.upi.com/Top_News/U...ss-US/2061559835258/

Walmart opens 120 electric vehicle charging stations across U.S.
By
Nicholas Sakelaris
Walmart now has 120 ultra-fast electric chargers at its stores with more to come.



June 6 (UPI) -- Walmart has installed electric vehicle charging stations at more than 120 locations across the United States, the retailer said Thursday -- and plans more in the future.

Walmart partnered with Electrify America to install and operate the chargers to meet the goal of becoming the largest retail host for chargers in the country.

"This milestone marks an important moment in the expansion of our charging station network," Electrify America COO Brendan Jones said in a statement. "We look forward to continuing our work with Walmart to make electric vehicle charging faster and more convenient for consumers across the country, and in turn, encourage more adoption of zero-emissions vehicles."

The chargers are located at stores in 34 states, mostly off major highways. Dozens more chargers are planned for major metro areas. The Electrify America chargers have been installed quickly, with the first in Hope, Ark., last summer. Since then, new chargers have opened every three days, on average.

The DC Fast Chargers can give an electric vehicle up to 20 miles of range per minute. There's also a 150 kilowatt charger.

The chargers are mostly concentrated on the east and west coasts or in major urban areas. The charger network gives electric vehicle owners access to rural communities and driving routes.

The next phase of charger stations will put them in an additional 12 states, including California, the United States' largest EV market.

Electrify America said it will invest $2 billion over the next decade in electric vehicle infrastructure and education. Overall, more than 2,000 chargers across 484 sites in 17 metropolitan areas are planned.

Electrify America is a subsidiary of Volkswagen Group of America born out of the $10 billion settlement with U.S. federal regulators over the diesel emission scandal of 2016.

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"General Motors announced yesterday it would transition much of its fleet to vehicles with zero tailpipe emissions by 2035. The target, which would shift the vast majority of GM's fleet to all-electric within 15 years, is one of the most aggressive plans announced by traditional auto manufacturers to date."