quote:

Originally posted by PASig:

The Pastor is good I will say and I really like his sermons but he's IT. There are NO assistant pastors or elders or any chain of command to speak of. He only has employees and volunteers which I've never seen in a church. It's a very dictatorial style clothed in trendy colors and skinny jeans which leads me to my biggest issue.

I think you have to ascertain, whether or not the church is founded in Biblical teachings or not...Are they doing anything outside of what the Bible says?
I think the fact that your church is not overseen and guided by Elders, Elders that meet the Biblical criteria, is a big problem. Who is watching the flock? Who is making sure that your congregation does not veer off of a Biblical path. From what you are describing it sounds like the stage is set for that, if it is not already happening.

When you say the Pastor is "good", how is he good? Is he effective at preaching the Bible, or is he good at entertaining?

I left a church that I initially liked, but slowly started to go off the path. We had Elders, but I believe that rather than being men that were picked because of their willingness to serve and having met the Biblical criteria for an elder, they were hand picked because they were willing to follow the so called vision of the Pastor.

The straw that broke the camel's back for me is when I got a survey from the church in my email that essentially asked, how was the performance of the worship band?...Were they using their hands effectively?...stuff like that. It is not a performance, it is supposed to be worship. I quietly left and told the pastor why I was doing so. Curiously enough, that church went from about 500 to 600 strong to not even existing about 10 years later.

I cannot sit here and say all of these modern, trendy churches are all doing something wrong necessarily, however, I think many of them are walking on a very slippery slope.

I would take the time to tell that Pastor why you are leaving. Do it in a truthful and loving way. I think he should hear why, and hopefully you are at least planting some seeds in the process.

Goon Anglican? This I gotta see.

Since it's your decision, and you don't care for the churches direction, unless you feel the need to inform them of the reasons, just go.

There's no obligation to stay, just go and find a place where you both feel comfortable.

It's not a divorce or leaving employment, sure it's difficult with all the time put in, but once you go, you'll be happy with your worship.

quote:

Originally posted by YellowJacket:

quote:

Originally posted by NavyGuy:
Churches, are in all aspects a business. Everything they do these days is to increase membership, who intern provide income.

Your first two sentences are blatantly false.

While I wouldn't say churches are a business, a lot of business-like thinking is involved in their governance. I never attended a church that wasn't trying to grow, and without any consideration of why that should be the goal. The language they used about growth being desireable was just like any economic entities', with no consideration of why (or if) that should be a church's goal.

quote:

Originally posted by darthfuster:
Goon Anglican? This I gotta see.

They're sort of like this:

quote:

Originally posted by YellowJacket:

quote:

Originally posted by LS1 GTO:
Stop going see if anyone (read: Pastor) reaches out to you.

Find a goon Anglican church

passive aggressivism. nice.

Was actually supposed to read "good Anglican..."

Hopefully Fr Russel (in TX now) doesn't call me out on it. LOL

quote:

Originally posted by darthfuster:
Goon Anglican? This I gotta see.

my editing always seems to be better the second time around

As a Pastor I like to hear these things. If this Pastor cared about those things, your church wouldn't have gotten this way. The church culture has changed, and you don't want to go with it. Nothing wrong with that. Typically those who've made appointments with me to tell me they were leaving, were those who I wished would have left a long time ago. I'm not putting you in that category. Have you expressed concern over the changing culture of the church before now? IF NOT, I honestly think its too late to do so now. If it is to the point where you're leaving, listing reasons just seems petty. IF you think the church leadership actually cares, make the appointment, share your concerns, and let them know you're going to start looking for a different place to worship that more aligns with your desires and beliefs. The test of such a heart is if you tell them you'll continue to give your contributions to them until you find the new place. When someone told me that once, I thanked them, said, "do what your heart says God is telling you to do, know I don't need your money and I trust God to instruct you how to handle your giving". Some of those people have continued to contribute long past finding a new church.

Hope some of this makes sense. I am often saddened to see churches lose touch with the seasoned membership only to chase trends.

quote:

I am often saddened to see churches lose touch with the seasoned membership only to chase trends.

Way of the world, be it church, business, web boards, social media sites, whatever organization runs on customers and members, the rules tend to follow the coming trends. Old is out, new is in, you work to attract the coming generations.

Sometimes at the expense of others, losses of current to future gains are part of the risk.

To survive every organization needs new membership, otherwise they will run out of members.

Like all the advertising of wokism which is geared toward the coming generations, they know they have to get these folks interested to survive.

The Pastor’s hair cut and young parishioners copying it seems pretty trivial. The loud music would get on my nerves though.

I think I would let the bass player fight his own battles. I would suspect he is properly able to size up his band playing situation on his own and decide if he is being slighted or not.

Ultimately in my opinion, if you are really planning on leaving the church, then just ghost them. If they are truly superficial and trendy then your objections to the behavior will be meaningless, so why waste the bandwidth?

On the music thing - lots of the modern music isn't very theologically sound. (Not the stuff on Christian radio, as much as the "Contemporary church music.")

If its a style thing, eh, people get old/fashions change.

If you don't like the content of the lyrics/something about them makes you feel uncomfortable, that sounds like an excellent time to talk to the pastor, and see if either your feelings are incorrect, or the song isn't appropriate for Church.

I would find the haircut thing very disturbing, but I'm not..."Culturally Christian."

(I am PA Dutch, etc. )

Do you have friends in the church? Few church members are truly loners, so it would seem likely that there are others there that you enjoy seeing. If you don't relate outside the church they might wonder what happened to you if you just leave the church.

I've been with my current church 42 years now, have sung in the Choir all that time (still do) and have many friends in the church. The worship style has slowly drifted from fairly liturgical (my preference) to "blended", with most of the liturgy left out much of the time. I have often considered leaving and going Anglican (I'm UMC right now), but don't want to lose all my friends and ways to serve. We have a very fine music program, the church is one of the most giving ones in the area, and I'm not willing to change just based on worship style changes. The Senior Pastor gives excellent (long) apolitical Sermons based on Scripture. Folks where I grew up would think the church was Northern Baptist, but it's not.

flashguy

quote:

Originally posted by jhe888:
I strongly dislike almost all modern Christian pop that I have heard. Maybe all of it. The lyrics are all vapid and superficial, and the music isn't much better. That would surely be enough for me.

Some of that music makes AD/DC look like Mozart. Forget three chords, there's only three notes.

quote:

Originally posted by trapper189:...Forget three chords, there's only three notes.

...and two of them are the same as the other one...

quote:

Originally posted by sigmonkey:

quote:

Originally posted by trapper189:...Forget three chords, there's only three notes.

...and two of them are the same as the other one...

The lyrics run heavily to:

Jesus loves you
We all love Jesus
Jesus is the best

Just get out. I learned a long time ago, that your relationship with God is personal. "Church" is a means to facilitate communication with God, and the ability to bond with a community in common communication with God.

When the medium interferes with the message, get out. Maintain your personal relationship with God, and seek those who communicate with Him the same way.

Don't fight the system. You are the system. If the facilitator doesn't work for you, move out smartly.

Having left a church I loved due to a move 25 years ago, I have never found another one that facilitated the community and communication I desire. Therefore, at this time in my life, my communion with God is entirely personal, and I am fine with that.

i am with Artie on this.

The Anglican/Episcopal church (baptized) left me a long time ago... lbj can concur.

The first step in solving a problem is to be aware of the problem.

Just leave. You will find another house of worship or not or maybe after a while.

The Peace of the Lord be with you both

Being polite and graceful is a good thing. However, the likely conversation with a pastoral leader is (summarized for brevity)
1. I would like to share my reason for leaving
2. OK
3. Personal preferences and BIL
4. Sorry you feel badly. See you later.

There is no changing the church. You have to separate your desire to be polite, graceful, and diplomatic with the reality of your experiences with this particular church.

You remain a person of grace and politeness even if you just leave. No one is judging you, especially at this church. I see no reason to express your concerns, especially as doing so will create stress in your own life.

God desires that we worship Him. Your family and your BIL can find a place that focuses worship on Him.

People tend to mirror those who they revere, and to find similarities as you describe in hairstyle and fashion may go beyond just being fashionable.

Leaving the church (or synagogue) is not "leaving God". It is (often) leaving the thing that "God" spoke of that reviled Him, in people's abhorrent behavior.

Do what you can, but when you can't, stop doin'.