I tried to watch Ryan's AHCA presentation but could only follow for about 15 seconds

^
me also,that rhino bastard is protecting the swamp

The more I learn about the GOP healthcare bill, the less I like it. It carves into stone the federal governments role in controlling the health insurance market. It seems to leave Obamacare intact until 2020 and then relies on politicians allowing the reforms to start in a presidential election year.

It mandates coverage of preexisting conditions, which I don't think is proper for the federal government and further requires additional regulatory measures to ensure that the risk pool is deep enough.

It still dictates other types of coverage that are mandatory, increasing costs and lowering choice.

It does nothing to implement a free market approach to healthcare.

Yes, I'm glad that Hillary is not president, but this bill is a disaster. It was not what was promised by the Congressional Republicans or Trump.

quote:

Originally posted by lkdr1989:
I tried to watch Ryan's AHCA presentation but could only follow for about 15 seconds

But, he had his sleeves rolled up. Don't you understand? He's been hard at work, man!

This is infuriating. These weak-kneed bastards. Trump needs to get into the middle of this and stomp this down. The Republicans blow this, and all of our gains are for naught.

There's a part of this process that reminds me of so much of the past. The leadership devised a plan to block newly elected Tea Partiers from any effective vote or effect when the whole sequestration debate was going on. They kept the decision-making to a smaller group and ignored the Tea Party folks.

Now, it's the Freedom Caucus and other conservatives. The fact that Ryan is using campaigning funds to lobby AGAINST conservatives with ads in their home states is just not good.

There will be no phase 2 or phase 3. They're not kidding anyone. Once the retrenchment of Obama Care is in place, the government will always run health care. This is the time to stop that but big government insiders are giving us business as usual.

People thought the problem was not having the House so voters delivered a majority. The voters also delivered a Senate majority but it was still not enough. Now, the voters delivered a president but what the insiders are trying to give us is the same ole' big government type of "solution?"

The problem at this point is that the conservatives on Capital Hill understand the principle but I am not hearing a clear and detailed policy to mate principle to solving 1) the preexisting condition problem and 2) helping elderly people maintain health care. If those two things aren't solved, coverage for sick Americans will not likely be available from a pure free market/economic approach.

Is that wrong? Does anyone know of a clear policy detail from the Freedom Caucus or others to address those issues? Do we just tell people in those circumstances to find an ice flow and a bear?

What is going wrong here is that:

The GOPe did not expect to win the presidency last November. Instead of being ready with an aggressive legislative agenda, they are flat-footed at the starting blocks.

The GOPe was NEVER serious about repealing ObamaCare. The previous repeal bills sent to Obama were for show -- 100% theater.

The GOPe is very literally and truly "The Party of the Stupid". Left unchecked, the GOPe will entirely squander the mandate we handed to them last November.

Our only hope is Trump. He MUST bring the establishment Republicans into line, or all is lost.

Thanks,

Sap

I have heard President Trump say that Ryan Care is a starting point for discussion. He has asked for amendments and suggestions to make it better.

That's why I was wondering if there was any specific plan to address what seem to be main issues without having government intervention.

How would the market address those two issues in any other approaches to the problem?

I was not asking about the GOPe big government solution. Rather, I was sincerely asking if anyone knows how any of the conservatives would address those two issues.

Again, President Trump has been asking for input to make things better.

It seems to me that President Trump is open to any ideas that would address those two issues. The GOPe can seem to only find big government solutions.

It does not seem unfair to ask conservative plans the pointed question about the two thorny issues.

What bothers me is that Pence was out hawking this thing...Palin calls it "RHINOCare".

I just can't tell what the truth is...that it has to be this way for the reconciliation....or that they won't fight for what is really needed (Rand's plan or very similar.

I want to trust Trump. But is someone pulling the wool over his eyes? I can't believe that either.

quote:

Originally posted by Paragon:
I want to trust Trump. But is someone pulling the wool over his eyes? I can't believe that either.

No one is pulling the wool over his eyes, he is being realistic. You can 'fight' all you want, but unless you have a plan that you can get 8 democrat senators plus all RINOs and conservative republicans to vote for, then you don't have anything.

There is not a plan that could be put together that would get that kind of support. All the carping about 'caving in', etc is silly.

I say to them: put your plan on the table along with your list of democrat senators who support it or shut up and start working in reality.

If the Dhims could pass this monstrosity without 60 votes (recall that Ted the Drunk Driver passed away and they temporarily lost the seat in MA) then the GOPe should be able to repeal it without 60.

quote:

You can 'fight' all you want, but unless you have a plan that you can get 8 democrat senators plus all RINOs and conservative republicans to vote for, then you don't have anything.

There is no such plan... including the Ryan Plan. The Freedom Caucus won't stand for Lyin' Ryan's Obamacare 2.0

A full repeal was voted on 14 months ago by all Republicans, knowing full well it was a "show vote" all theater, because Obama wouldn't sign it.

When asked if it is too late for Ryan to withdraw this bill and approach repealing and replacing Obamacare in a manner Republicans campaigned on for years, rather than in this convoluted way, Paul said: “No, I don’t think so.” And Paul believes that President Trump will be willing to bargain, given the fact that Ryan’s bill is unlikely to pass either chamber of Congress, according to many Republicans party-wide.

“President Trump has indicated look, his career in business has been about negotiating deals,” Paul said. “My guess is he realizes this is going to take some negotiation. He seems to be very open to hearing from conservatives. He’s been inviting my input and I’m aware he’s been inviting input from different members of the House Freedom Caucus as well.”

Paul also said that the goal here is not to kill any person’s bill or stop repeal of Obamacare—and that Ryan’s recklessness jeopardizes GOP chances to repeal and replace Obamacare. “The goal is to get one that passes,” Paul said. “I think they’re going in the wrong direction, but I think a clean repeal could pass again.”

Do it again. Trump will sign it.

Then, and only then, will the true work of "replace" begin.
We got along for 234 years without socialized medicine... I think we can get along without it again.

quote:

Originally posted by XinTX:
If the Dhims could pass this monstrosity without 60 votes (recall that Ted the Drunk Driver passed away and they temporarily lost the seat in MA) then the GOPe should be able to repeal it without 60.

No - it did take 60 votes to pass it. Arlen Specter switched parties and gave the dems the 60th vote.
https://www.reference.com/hist...ess-8fb44b73f7bcdcb6

It can be repealed with a simple majority.

Any replacement legislation would take 60 votes.

What Trump has proposed is modifying it in the first phase to get rid of the mandate and then stripping more and replacing it in a 2nd and 3rd phase.

I am of the belief that if we don't get it now, we won't get it. This 2nd and 3rd phase stuff sounds like kicking the can down the road.

Very akin to "I'll gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today."

Yesterday's shows on Patriot brought up some points: who wrote which parts of the bill? Lobbyists? Paul Ryan? Tom Price? They know who wrote what. I would like to know, too.

quote:

Any replacement legislation would take 60 votes.

With Cruz and Paul against it how is it ever going to pass? I can't see either of them going for Ryan's plan.

quote:

Originally posted by Paragon:
I am of the belief that if we don't get it now, we won't get it. This 2nd and 3rd phase stuff sounds like kicking the can down the road.

Very akin to "I'll gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today."

Yesterday's shows on Patriot brought up some points: who wrote which parts of the bill? Lobbyists? Paul Ryan? Tom Price? They know who wrote what. I would like to know, too.

Unless the rhetoric changes I'd say there's a good chance we get nothing and Obamacare stays in place until it completely disintegrates. Repealing it without a viable replacement would wipe out the republican party (I know a bunch of people think this would be great).

quote:

Originally posted by Ackks:

quote:

Any replacement legislation would take 60 votes.

With Cruz and Paul against it how is it ever going to pass? I can't see either of them going for Ryan's plan.

This first phase only requires a simple majority.

quote:

Repealing it without a viable replacement would wipe out the republican party (I know a bunch of people think this would be great).

You've got that part right.

At least, the Paul Ryan version.

Any real sense of it is all but dead anyway.

Well if they want 60 votes easily, all they would have to do is say, "Look we in congress and the senate are now under the same plans/laws that this law enacts. We have to live in the world we legislate."

It would certainly ease my conscience about this crapfest.

quote:

Unless the rhetoric changes I'd say there's a good chance we get nothing and Obamacare stays in place until it completely disintegrates. Repealing it without a viable replacement would wipe out the republican party (I know a bunch of people think this would be great).

I disagree with your assessment.
I think if they DON'T repeal it the republican party disintegrates. I can only speak for myself, of course, but I'm an active Republican and would vote against my Republican congress person if they don't vote for a clean repeal.

This is the most important thing I expect out of this Congress.

Of course, both sides say there'll be a bloodbath:

Trump, Ryan Warn Of "Bloodbath" If GOP Fails To Pass Healthcare Bill

Speaker Paul Ryan on Sunday said he agrees with President Trump that 2018 will be a "bloodbath" for Republicans if Congress does not pass legislation repealing and replacing ObamaCare.

“I do believe that if we don't keep our word to the people who sent us here, yeah,” Ryan told CBS News’s “Face the Nation,” when asked if he agreed with Trump’s reported comments about the 2018 midterm elections.

According to a CNN report last week, Trump told Republican House members in a meeting that 2018 would be a “bloodbath” if they fail to pass healthcare legislation.

As The Hill reports, Ryan, who used a PowerPoint presentation to defend the House proposals last week, said during the CBS interview that members of Congress are “breaking your word” if they don’t keep campaign promises.

“Look. The most important thing for a person like myself who runs for office and tells the people we're asking to hire us, ‘This is what I'll do if I get elected.’ And then if you don't do that, you're breaking your word,” he said.

So it appears simple - GOP needs to pass the bill (whether they have seen it or not) to save the party from problems in next year's elections.

Not so fast!

As Axios reports, Tom Cotton warned House Republicans on Sunday that the House Republican Obamacare replacement bill can't pass the Senate as written - and that they could lose the House in next year's elections if they vote for it.

"I'm afraid that if they vote for this bill, they're going to put the House majority at risk next year," Cotton said on ABC's "This Week."



He warned that it would have "adverse consequences for millions of Americans" and wouldn't lower costs: "Do not walk the plank and vote for a bill that cannot pass the Senate and then have to face the consequences of that vote."

The bottom line then is that on the one hand, there'll be a bloodbath if they do NOT pass the bill according to Ryan's Trumpcare plan; but on the other hand, senators like Cotton warn GOP will lose the majority if they DO pass it.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/...pass-healthcare-bill

quote:

Originally posted by chellim1:
I think if they DON'T repeal it the republican party disintegrates. I can only speak for myself, of course, but I would vote against my Republican congress person if they don't vote for a clean repeal.

I am no fan of Obamacare, HOWEVER, if the GOP doesn't come up with a better plan the House and Senate could easily turn back over the the democrats because too many people have too much free shit right now.