Also the fuel switch panel had been recovered from the crash site. If there's any irregularity, they'd have included it in the preliminary report.

FAA released a statement today that there is no issue with the 787 fuel switches.

FAA

quote:

FAA released a statement today that there is no issue with the 787 fuel switches.

I’d bet that the airlines are taking a close look at the fuel switches on their aircraft though.

This is going to go down as pilot-induced. Whether it was due to a massive brain fart, or intentional, will probably never be known.

Perhaps they can identify which pilot said "why did you cut off?" by letting their close contacts listen to the recording.

quote:

Originally posted by Lefty Sig:

Perhaps they can identify which pilot said "why did you cut off?" by letting their close contacts listen to the recording.

Surely they already know. I should think they can tell which pilot said what from the CVR. On that note, the audible clicks of the cut-off switches should also be quite evident.

quote:

Originally posted by Pipe Smoker:
[QUOTE]FAA released a statement today that there is no issue with the 787 fuel switches.

With this information and all of the information above on the control switches, it seems unlikely to me that it was purely accidental.

quote:

Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:

quote:

Originally posted by Lefty Sig:

Perhaps they can identify which pilot said "why did you cut off?" by letting their close contacts listen to the recording.

Surely they already know. I should think they can tell which pilot said what from the CVR. On that note, the audible clicks of the cut-off switches should also be quite evident.

You would think they would know which headset is which, but the report didn't indicate who said what, so either they can't tell, or they don't want to tell us yet. Good point about the clicks from the switches. Should hear two sets of clicks for the off, then back on.

quote:

Perhaps they can identify which pilot said "why did you cut off?" by letting their close contacts listen to the recording.

IMO, if the first officer is flying with both hands on the yoke (and right at takeoff, why would he not fly with both hands on the yoke), it was the pilot in command that moved the fuel switches.

quote:

Originally posted by Lefty Sig:

...but the report didn't indicate who said what, so either they can't tell, or they don't want to tell us yet.

Right. IMO, they don't want to tell us yet. In fact, in the preliminary report when remarking about what the pilots said, it wasn't even in quotes. In other words, they paraphrased or summarized the remarks. The full CVR transcript will no doubt be in the final report. We'll likely be waiting at least a year for that though.

quote:

Originally posted by 229DAK:

quote:

Perhaps they can identify which pilot said "why did you cut off?" by letting their close contacts listen to the recording.

IMO, if the first officer is flying with both hands on the yoke (and right at takeoff, why would he not fly with both hands on the yoke), it was the pilot in command that moved the fuel switches.

I never fly with both hands on yoke, always one on yoke and one on thrust levers.

quote:

Originally posted by arabiancowboy:

quote:

Originally posted by 229DAK:

quote:

Perhaps they can identify which pilot said "why did you cut off?" by letting their close contacts listen to the recording.

IMO, if the first officer is flying with both hands on the yoke (and right at takeoff, why would he not fly with both hands on the yoke), it was the pilot in command that moved the fuel switches.

I never fly with both hands on yoke, always one on yoke and one on thrust levers.

Ever fly with Auto-throttles? I only fly with one hand, but with auto-throttles my other is not on the power levers, sometimes on the yoke and sometimes on my armrest.

quote:

You would think they would know which headset is which, but the report didn't indicate who said what, so either they can't tell, or they don't want to tell us yet.

According to Dan Gryder, the inputs are differentiated.

After answering the question of who said what, the question becomes who is telling the truth?

quote:

Originally posted by kkina:

quote:

You would think they would know which headset is which, but the report didn't indicate who said what, so either they can't tell, or they don't want to tell us yet.

According to Dan Gryder, the inputs are differentiated.

Older generations of CVR had several separate channels, and iirc were required as a minimum by regulation. Cockpit Area Mic, which is located somewhere up high and picks up all sounds within the cockpit. The location is akin to being on your car's rearview mirror. Then there is a channel for the left seat headset, and another for the right seat headset. On the aircraft I flew it recorded both the mic from the headset as well as the audio signal going to the speakers of the headset. Thus it recorded every sound a pilot makes (not just what he transmits on the radio), and everything each pilot hears. (Pilots can select various sources to listen to or to silence). It also recorded the intercom to the flight attendants and also the PA in the cabin. There may have been additional channels, too.

The more recent boxes have vastly more capacity, and must have recorded each pilot separately.

The only wrinkle would be if they were not wearing headsets, in which case only the CAM mic would pick up their voices.

Regulations require the use of headsets and boom microphones below 18k feet for just this occasion. There were wearing mikes and when the transcript comes out, they will definitely identify which mike said what, what the Cockpit Area Mike(CAM) picked up and who was the author of each boom mike recording.

quote:

Originally posted by jeffxjet:
Regulations require the use of headsets and boom microphones below 18k feet for just this occasion. There were wearing mikes and when the transcript comes out, they will definitely identify which mike said what, what the Cockpit Area Mike(CAM) picked up and who was the author of each boom mike recording.

Is that true in India, and was this crew wearing headsets? While I'd expect so, I don't assume for sure anything at this point.

These are the EASA rules, the European equivalent to the FAR's and if Air India is flying into Europe or the US they must abide by the same rules. I don't know if India is covered by their own air rules, but this rule is extremely universal. It came about because of this very reason, trying to decipher cockpit communication post accident. There is almost no way Indian Air Rules would differ from this reg. but I'm not going to go search for it. I hate searching the US regs.


EASA Regulations on Headsets in the Cockpit
General Requirements

Use of Headsets: EASA regulations require that all flight crew members use headsets during flight operations to ensure clear communication and reduce noise interference.

Type of Headsets: Headsets must meet specific technical standards, such as FAA Technical Standard Orders (TSO), ensuring they are suitable for aviation use.

Specific Guidelines

Below FL 180: Flight crews are typically required to use boom-microphone headsets below 18,000 feet Mean Sea Level (MSL). This is to maintain effective communication in a noisy environment.

Above FL 180: Above 18,000 feet, the captain may allow the use of cockpit speakers, provided that headsets remain readily available for immediate use.

Company Policies

Individual Airline Policies: Airlines may have their own specific policies regarding headset use. These policies can dictate whether personal headsets are allowed and under what conditions.

Compliance with Regulations: All headset use must comply with EASA and FAA regulations to ensure safety and operational effectiveness in the cockpit.

quote:

Originally posted by saigonsmuggler:
Air India Captain's mental health struggles

I was awaiting for that to show up.
The only logical explanation.
One bad fuel lever is extremely rare.
Two, how many out of a billion chances?
Something probably clicked in his head, a scenario that played in his head many times, but this time his hand followed through.


The black smoke coming from the left engine was it trying to spool back up.

Flight 990 comes to mind. That second officer killed those people.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EgyptAir_Flight_990

quote:

Originally posted by jeffxjet:

quote:

Originally posted by arabiancowboy:

quote:

Originally posted by 229DAK:

quote:

Perhaps they can identify which pilot said "why did you cut off?" by letting their close contacts listen to the recording.

IMO, if the first officer is flying with both hands on the yoke (and right at takeoff, why would he not fly with both hands on the yoke), it was the pilot in command that moved the fuel switches.

I never fly with both hands on yoke, always one on yoke and one on thrust levers.

Ever fly with Auto-throttles? I only fly with one hand, but with auto-throttles my other is not on the power levers, sometimes on the yoke and sometimes on my armrest.

Yes, I currently fly the 737Max. In critical phases of flight, my hands are always on the throttle and I've needed it several times in conditions requiring faster adjustments than AT is capable of. It's also policy at my airline to do so for this reason, so I'm not making up a technique. I also jumpseat a lot; people's hands are either both on yoke (briefly) during gusty conditions or one on yoke one on throttles, I've never seen anyone taking off have a free hand laying around unengaged

I should specify I'm talking about Boeing. Airbus AT is different and their policies are different. But a 787 pilot at my airline will have his hands engaged like mine on takeoff.

Edited to add: Point of this sidebar: I think the FO had both hands fully engaged and the CA had the free hand to switch off the fuel. I think the FO was asking the CA why he did it. Just a guess, based on flying with these kinds of cultures had the FO done something dumb we'd hear the CA yell at him immediately. Again, just my speculation.