quote:

Originally posted by sigmonkey:

quote:

Originally posted by wrightd:...WHY to WE have to do ALL the heavy lifting for fucking EVERYONE else ??? ...

In the most simple explanation, it is because it is in our national interest and we convinced the members of these alliances to allow us to have a foot on everyone of our enemies front porch.

We can talk all around it and use terms like "local stability" and "joint defense", but the bottom line is we want to keep the shithouse out of our kitchen.

Well said sir!

quote:

Originally posted by Crom:
I don't pretend to know what all our options are; but I do know that Kim can no longer be tolerated. We have seen this scenario play out in history too many times.

Time to take out the trash.

Sometimes its best to let the trash just rot where it sits, and leave it alone.

quote:

Originally posted by bubbatime:

Sometimes its best to let the trash just rot where it sits, and leave it alone.

Well, I "get" that analogy, and there is probably some credibility to it. But in this case, the trash is developing hydrogen bombs and ICBMs.

Remember that Kim is the same guy who murdered his own brother...in a foreign country...using a banned nerve gas classified as a WMD. There is no questioning the lack of sanity.

Think about this:
boom...San Diego disappears.
Who do we blame ? Russia ? Iran ? No Kor ? ...did they sell ONE nuke to ISIS ? Does anyone think that if ISIS had even one nuke they would feel at all inhibited about using it ?

How would we even know ? A nuke could be aboard a container ship; no ICBM really needed.

This is why nuclear non-proliferation is so important.

I have spent some time in South Korea and visited the DMZ. The culture of Korea is complicated.

From all I could glean from our South Korean counterparts and US folks stationed there, it seems the regime lives in their own little bubble with a distorted view of reality. It's not just Kim-there are a lot of people in North Korea who have lived under the "threat" of US action their entire lives and know nothing different.

They have a magnified view of their role in the world which is inflated by people around them constantly blowing smoke up their asses. If you kill or silence everyone who disagrees with you, that's what you get. (This seems to be a common characteristic of third world dictators, some college professors, and many movie stars). Failure to strike them down when small can allow them to become large enough to be dangerous, while having no insight into how small they are. But make no mistake, they can do a lot of harm and kill a lot of people if we go to war.

When the world shows them what real power is, they will be shocked because they have no idea how insignificant they are. It may be about time to take them to the woodshed. Hopefully China will do it.

I know mine is an unpopular opinion, but I say let NK be.

I understand the idea that we must do something about his weapons programs before he strikes us, but the same logic convinced me that we should invade Iraq. And that was a total fiasco at every level and in retrospect we would have been better had we not invaded.

Employing the Bush doctrine of preemptive strike on probable threats is appealing, but I am convinced we are not smart enough to calculate risk affectively and our analysis of enemy intentions has proven nothing but faulty the past two decades.

Let china and japan deal with it.

quote:

I know mine is an unpopular opinion, but I say let NK be.

I agree. I think they are blustering bullys who want attention and perceived power, far, far more than any real desire for any sort of real battle with us. I think the possibility of them initiating an attack on us is measured in low single digits at best, and that's too low to go picking fights. Treat them like the irrelevant mosquito they are, and squash if they attack.

quote:

Originally posted by arabiancowboy:
Employing the Bush doctrine of preemptive strike on probable threats is appealing, but I am convinced we are not smart enough to calculate risk affectively and our analysis of enemy intentions has proven nothing but faulty the past two decades.

One of the biggest issues I have with 43 was the way he staffed the war. Everyone wanted to avoid the draft, but this required leaning on the reserves more repeatedly than I felt was fair. I understand to a point why this was done, but a lot of service members' families suffered because of it.

I do not believe we understand the full consequences of what a major conflict in Korea would do to our military and our economy.

We lost how many people in Vietnam, over how many years? To lose that much in a few weeks would be something no one in the US has seen since WWII.

Fortunately for us, the adults are again in charge, and I trust they will advise the President correctly.

quote:

Originally posted by sigmonkey:
< snip >

Easy, SIGmonkey.

I never said that fat fuck having so much as a wet firecracker was acceptable.

I just don't think they have the requisite materials to make a fusion weapon, much less the dial-a-boom designs you reference.

If I wrong, we'll hear about it because every nonproliferation group on the planet will go ape shit.

ETA: no offense

I think this will be solved through economics rather than military force. North Korea is basically a province of China by proxy.

I think behind the scenes China is goading them into their missile and nuclear tests. China got used to weak leadership from the US and is playing a game of chess. Encourage the Norks, let the outrage ratchet up, then make an offer to step in shut things down if the US will cease to recognize Taiwan, recognize China's maritime control claims over the South China Sea, or whatever else may be strategically important to them.

At the same time with Trump in the Whitehouse it may turn into a game of chicken rather than chess. Trump threatens tariffs or trade limitations if China does not shut down the Norks. Does China decide that their trade imbalance with the US is more important than their strategic goals?

quote:

Originally posted by Sig2340:

quote:

Originally posted by sigmonkey:
< snip >

Easy, SIGmonkey.

I never said that fat fuck having so much as a wet firecracker was acceptable.

I just don't think they have the requisite materials to make a fusion weapon, much less the dial-a-boom designs you reference.

If I wrong, we'll hear about it because every nonproliferation group on the planet will go ape shit.

ETA: no offense

Most of the time, I use someone's post to launch my ass into low earth orbit, and it has nothing to do with the person's reply (personally) that I glom onto.

^ guilty, here, too.

I think Lil Kim will build and build until he is killed. China may be able to slow him up somewhat, but he will never stop. His psychological makeup appears to be that he has a Napoleon syndrome and this is his driving force. He will have to be stopped with force, however possibly China would physically stop Kim if the US stopped important their products.Most likely, though, China will do little until it is too late.



Go to the 4:20 mark.

Link to original video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLW_q9jKRjU

Oh, I think we're definitely at the point where the topic of discussion is "what happens to Li'l Kim". Obviously, I can't read the future or anyone's mind. But when you've consolidated your reign with a bloodbath that specifically took out a backdoor link to your Chinese sponsors as well as their preferred successor to the throne in Pyongyang, your soldiers are starving, and the US, Russia and the People's Republic of China have all publicly warned you to stop messing with nukes immediately, well...

I think Li'l Kim has hit the point of perhaps not having enough friends to stay in power, which is to say alive. It's just so much cheaper and simpler for the Chinese to replace him than it is to roll the dice on a war on the Korean peninsula that it seems like a no-brainer.

Regarding this matter, I was annoyed at our newspaper's spin on it. "Trump raises stakes in escalating North Koreans nuke crisis" read the headline. I think it should've said, "KIM raises stakes in escalating North Koreans nuke crisis; Trump tells him to STFU."

quote:

Regarding this matter, I was annoyed at our newspaper's spin on it. "Trump raises stakes in escalating North Koreans nuke crisis" read the headline. I think it should've said, "KIM raises stakes in escalating North Koreans nuke crisis; Trump tells him to STFU."

Actually neither, unless it is on THE OPINION page. Sadly, we are well beyond the simple reporting of the facts.

I read the following quote tonight:

I hate newspapermen. They come into camp and pick up their camp rumors and print them as facts.


William Tecumseh Sherman was the author.

They bluffed and blustered for 70 years-- because they did not have nuclear weapons. Now they do. It's all different now

How out-of-control is Kim? Even China can't control him. If anyone should be able to... and they can't.

This is something that doesn't get enough attention: He believes he is a god. His people worship him as a god.

We think he couldn't possibly launch nuclear strikes because that would be insane. But that assumes that his world-view is more or less like ours. I don't think it is, at all.

So far, he is doing exactly what he has said he will do to command nuclear weapons. And he says that when he has them, he will destroy America.

You want to go with the "oh, he's bluffing" possibility?

The best hope is that he will be assassinated. China must have many agents in the NORK government and military. Or a patriotic general could do it, and sacrifice his life for his country. Maybe even a special forces team could take him out.

Failing that, I think we face two horrible choices: war with N.Korea, or a nuclear attack, or EMP, on our country within a few years.

"He's all bluster" reminds me of "Hitler just wants the Rhineland."

This is the most dangerous time since the Cuban Missile Crisis. And that was at a time when MAD made sense. Does it still make sense when you are dealing with a god?

Thank God we've got Trump/T.rex/Mattis and not whatever would have there had HRC been elected. It makes me shiver at the thought...

^^^We'd be sending them money, and lots of it. And they'd be sending us disrespect, and lots of it.

Mutually Assured Destruction doesn't work against a mad man. In his case it's assured destruction, ours not so much. It would completely wreck our lives as we know it, even if he only leveled one city. We don't want him to have the chance to lob one our way.

I think our only hope is to starve his people into killing him or military coup. There is no way we directly attack him preemptively because of Seoul, most of our troops and 500,000 S Korean citizens would likely die.

The other problem is that even if we cut off the head of the snake his people have been brainwashed that US is the enemy. So if we do, or inside forces, or China disposes of him, what happens next?