parabellum's post Is a man bound by the rules he sets in his house? made me think of a recent exchange on a different forum.

I'm considering modifying an item that I own. Some consider it "valuable" or "desirable" which somehow, in their opinion, gives them the right to dictate what I do with it.

I want to modify it to be useful to me. Their reply, "you shouldn't modify it, only restore it".

But I want to modify it. Their reply, "then you should sell it and buy what you actually want".

But it's not for sale. "Then you should restore it."

But I'm not happy with it. "Then you should sell it to someone that would be happy with it."

But it's not for sale. ... repeat ad naseum. It got to the point where I was being insulted for daring modify my own possession and then doubting my abilities in general.

I'm reminded in The Fountainhead when Howard Roark blows up the building. If I wanted to burn my stuff, what's it to you? I don't get it. Why would someone even want to dictate what I do with what I own?

For those wondering, the item in question is a 1967 Fender Bassman amp that I'd like to make a bit more useful for me. Changing the tone stack and putting the extra tube in the mix for more gain.

Never read the comments... LOL

Its yours do what you want, others can not like it, others might love it, haters gonna hate and all that.

Now if you put it out in the ether for a discussion idea expect to get all kinds of comments, then, accept the fact that comments
will not always be agreeable.

Note: agree with Artie regarding people being on both sides of balancing the heritage of the amp vs making it what you want.


nature of the beast.

I see both sides of the coin. Fender isn't making any more amps like that, with that tone, thus there are a limited number out there, and "original" or "restored to original" preserves a piece of what some see as music heritage.

However, it's yours and you are free to do with it what you will.

A bit of an analogy; a neighbor of mine restores classic '60s Chevrolet muscle cars and Corvettes. Since he likes to drive them, he puts modern suspension and brakes on the cars to make them more driveable and better handling. I have convinced him to keep the old parts in the back of his garage and sell them with the car (which he inevitably does after a few months) so that the new owner has the opportunity to make it factory original again.

So you are absolutely right, others have no right to tell you what to do with your property, but I understand their impulse to urge you to preserve it.

quote:

Originally posted by ArtieS:
I see both sides of the coin. Fender isn't making any more amps like that, with that tone, thus there are a limited number out there, and "original" or "restored to original" preserves a piece of what some see as music heritage.

However, it's yours and you are free to do with it what you will.

A bit of an analogy; a neighbor of mine restores classic '60s Chevrolet muscle cars and Corvettes. Since he likes to drive them, he puts modern suspension and brakes on the cars to make them more driveable and better handling. I have convinced him to keep the old parts in the back of his garage and sell them with the car (which he inevitably does after a few months) so that the new owner has the opportunity to make it factory original again.

So you are absolutely right, others have no right to tell you what to do with your property, but I understand their impulse to urge you to preserve it.

I completely understand what you're saying but what if your friend was never going to sell one of the cars. Does it even matter what he does with the modifications or if he just tosses the original parts?

No. Not at all. He does it because it increases the sales value of his car, not because he cares in any historical or preservatory sense.

And he always sells. For him, it's the chase, not the ownership.

He's picking up a '69 Chevelle SS big block this week. I figure he has it until the end of summer. Less if someone offers him good money for it.

Well, unless you own a priceless treasure with great historical value, then do what you want with it. People will always project their way of thinking onto others and their property to give an opinion on how to act or what to do with that property.

Make it work for you and enjoy.

Me: "I'd like to re-lume the dial and hands on this watch."

Them: "You shouldn't do that. This is an original, untouched dial. You'll ruin the value."

Me: "I understand that. But I need to be able to use it in low light. That's the value to me. I am never selling it."

Them: "I really wouldn't do that. Can you wear a different watch when you're working?"

Me: "Since I'm a 'watch guy' and have more, yes. But I don't want to. I want to wear and enjoy this watch. It has a boatload of sentimental value."

Them: "How 'bout if I swap the dial out for a similar one that's not original to the watch, then you can preserve this dial?"

Me: "How 'bout if I just go to another watchmaker that'll give me what I'm asking for?"

If you can sell it and buy what you want with profit left over, then sell it. If not, then mod the hell out of it.

I only see one side of the coin.

If you were not looking for advice who cares what the internet says.

I do whatever I like with my toys. I occasionally break them playing with them.

My loss, no one else should care.

quote:

Originally posted by mark123:
I completely understand what you're saying but what if your friend was never going to sell one of the cars. Does it even matter what he does with the modifications or if he just tosses the original parts?

Yes, it does, because, barring unforeseen events, the car will outlast him.

Suppose you came into possession of a WWII era 1911 in, say, 95% condition? Perhaps a little holster wear. Nearly perfect. Would you send it off for refinishing?

I'm not asking if you have the right to do so. It's yours. Melt it down if you want. I'm asking would you?

To many aficionados of some things, irreversibly modifying a classic or collectible item is a sin.

I have a bunch of collectible hand planes--Stanley Bailey and one or two other brands/models. Most of them have flaws in the Japanning. ("Japanning" is a type of black finish that imitates Japanese lacquerwork.) I could make those hand planes "perfect" by tearing them down, sand-blasting them, and re-painting or re-Japanning them, but, that would destroy much of their value. In this case the value of the planes in their original condition overrides my OCD. Conversely, I have others that aren't collectible and whose finish is mostly destroyed I will completely refinish (someday), because nothing will be lost by doing so.

So I find myself in agreement with those critical of whatever it is you plan to do. You have a classic, collectible item that, in its original form, has great value. You're going to destroy that value. Once destroyed, that value is lost to the world forever, rather than living on.

It's yours. Do what you want. I think it's a crying shame to do that kind of thing.

What are you doing listening to people on the inner net anyway ?
Don't
You know by now that
They are all nut job whacko screwball bohemian's .

Geez
You'd think a guy would learn.

^^^^^DennisM. I had that experience with one of my Pepsi GMT Master. I had the dial and the bezel insert changed out. The shop said that would de value the watch. Told them that was a problem for whoever I left it to. They didn’t press the issue.

It's yours to do as you wish. Set it on fire in the driveway if you will. But eventually you may say to yourself I wish I had listened back in the day.

I can see both sides of this.

I know you're something of an electronics guy.

Can this mod be built into a device separately
wired in without modifying the original hardware?

The reason I put it to you like this is because over the years my sentiments toward such things may change, & I may come to regret it.

To answer your question directly, of course you are free to do as you please with your own property. It's nobody's business.

Make it “Go To 11!” if you want.

It’s yours, enjoy it.

I've heard the same with regard to MilSurps in general. Especially SKS of all things. I know, they only made so many. But with SKS especially, oh so many. I even somewhat agree, but it's my F'n rifle fer chrissake. It's an unreasonable thing to suggest that you know best what someone does with their own property. Especially to be persistently huffy about it. Just put 'em on mute already.

The big difference seems to be people who seem to have no grasp of reality, spewing their advice in an increasingly authoritarian manner. My best advice is make your definitive, nicer version of F off simpler and easy to understand. 'Duly noted' is a favorite.

It seems most people just put up with this. I on the other hand, am sometimes compelled to declare them a ball of yarn to be pawed at and toyed with.

There is an offshoot to this same type of person (the one that won't take no for answer.) For me the most common example of this I can think of is the unsolicited offer to buy. A person approaches you, maybe while you're in your garage (automatically this puts me on a defensive) inquiring about a vehicle (motorcycle, watercraft, or whatever) that they can see and whether you want to sell it. OK fine. You answer and it's over. Nope, it seems. Not with many people who will approach you like that. I guess you can classify it as a form of bullying, but only if you are vulnerable to this approach.

'How much would you want for it?'

I told you it's not for sale.

'But, say it was'

This is where the loop begins for many people, people nicer than me.

Bully 'em back, but passively. So important to remember that they wanted this.

My advice is when you reach this point, offer to sell at at least quadruple what it's worth. The key is, whatever you would be super happy to sell it for. If it's a family heirloom and has sentimental value, offer it for 4.3 Billion. But normally, 2-4 times what it's worth is sufficient for most people to be happy selling something they didn't want to sell. Some will get truly butthurt over this. This can be pretty comical usually. If you feel like playing, just keep making higher and higher counter offers until they go away.

Of course your free to do whatever you want with whatever you have, but putting your ideas out there always invites the opinions of others. If you said that you had something like a mint 50's Strat and you were going to route it out for humbuckers...well, that would make me sad.

I've talked with Mark off the forum about this.

Couple things first:

1) This is a CBS era amp. If you don't know what that means, then you really ought to research it before deciding you have an opinion. It matters. This is one of the amps CBS fucked with first when they bought Fender, and this particular amp is one of the ones they "improved in a number of ways." His is two years into corporate bean counter "improvements." If it was a '64, I'd say "let's talk this one through...."

2) The mod is completely reversible.

3) The mod he's contemplating doing would arguably affect the value less than re-capping it, which is something that has to be done on occasion to amps of this vintage, and I haven't seen such maintenance affect a sale value to any major degree. A player will buy the amp and run out the door. A cork-sniffer who will sit there and shamelessly fumble his way through a minor blues scale with a guitar out of tune will turn his nose up at it.

CBS changed the circuit, the cap values, added a negative feedback loop and a number of other things that make this amp internally pretty different from all it's predecessors. Value-wise, it's somewhere between the most and least desirable examples. This is not the major deal some would, that some are making it out to be.

quote:

Originally posted by ensigmatic:
Suppose you came into possession of a WWII era 1911 in, say, 95% condition? Perhaps a little holster wear. Nearly perfect. Would you send it off for refinishing?

No, it would be more akin to putting different grips on it and keeping the originals carefully stored, and maybe not even going that far. If someone doesn't know how to undo this mod once Mark has gone to the great beyond, well, original schematics still exist and it can be restored to original. The only people who would be shitting their pants over this are the cork-sniffers who would be mad it wasn't the original solder joints and those people can just go die in a fire for all I care. I have a set of faux ivories on my all-original, 90%+ 1943 Remington-Rand and the original grips in the case along with it, and I don't see it as a problem in any way.

quote:

Originally posted by ensigmatic:
I think it's a crying shame to do that kind of thing.

But you didn't ask the details or bother to qualify exactly what it is that he's thinking about doing. This is more the problem than what he's talking about: It's how people will react to it than what "it" really is.

I agree with those who plead with owners of rare items to leave them original. Eventually rarity turns into one of a kind because of folks who want to make it better. Classic cars is a category of mild interest to me and I hate seeing an uncommon car in good shape butchered into someone’s view of the perfect new version that ends up being the flavor of the week. If a major rework is the intent, I wish they would would start with someone else’s mess and leave the few original cars as is for history.

The world is very grey. Though you have the absolute right to do whatever you want, there is a point where it become douchiness to the point of being intentionally antagonistic towards others.

If an object has historical significance worthy of being in a museum, it should be preserved. If it is very rare and soon would become of historical significance, it should probably be preserved.

Some things are of significant collector interest but not museum worthy. I believe that is where your Bassman is. Chances are any tube amp of that vintage has had at least some repair and possibly minor modification already.

I say do what you want with it, though keep in mind what you may want in the future (leave it to an heir, sell it for profit, keep it forever to use). That goes for any object. Do what brings you joy with it.