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North Korean missile launch causes ground stop order by FAA on Monday Login/Join 
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Picture of spunk639
posted
I don’t recall this between 2017 and 2021, I wonder why? Oh yeah a leader that was either feared or respected in the White House.

https://www.thedrive.com/the-w...-korea-fired-missile
 
Posts: 2408 | Location: Boston, Mass | Registered: December 02, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Guys,

Since this is my area of expertise, and my actual job I'm gonna take the time to explain this in a way that relates to many topics I see on this forum.

NO US President has altered NK's actions. Trust me on that. President Trump did nothing more to better the situation in NK than anyone has Since Truman.

Now everytime something bad happens it doesn't mean someone else did it better.

There are areas to be upset about our current leaders and there are areas where it appears that people have no F'ing clue what they are talking about. Choose wisely.

Making silly statements like that is akin to crying wolf, it takes away from the times when there is actually a new deficiency.

Stop with this nonsense. There hasn't been a Utopia long as I've been around so these silly things just show that folks have no idea what they are talking about.

Trump was netiher feared nor respected by KJU. Trust me.





12 years to retirement! Just waiting!
 
Posts: 5006 | Location: Maryland | Registered: August 10, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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So hypothetically - if NK decided to launch a missile in our general direction - would they really target a random commercial airliner?
 
Posts: 4979 | Registered: April 20, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Graniteguy:
So hypothetically - if NK decided to launch a missile in our general direction - would they really target a random commercial airliner?


You don't launch ICBM's at moving targets in general, and especially with NK's current systems.

Would have been more for feasible making sure nothing was in the way of defensive systems. But thats a WAG on my part.

I'd wager it was likely just precautionary.





12 years to retirement! Just waiting!
 
Posts: 5006 | Location: Maryland | Registered: August 10, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Freethinker
Picture of sigfreund
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I often get the impression that Truman is the last (only?) Democrat President that anyone on the Right believes is worthy of any respect, but what happened in Korea was hardly one of his praiseworthy accomplishments.

I strongly believe that the Communists were encouraged to attack the South for two main reasons. The first was that the US had previously made it clear that South Korea was not in the geographic area that we were willing to defend against aggression. That had been such a clearly-recognized element of our foreign policy that our military was caught flat-footed and unprepared when Truman decided to defend the country. I personally believe that his decision was correct, but by not having made that resolve clear prior to the invasion it was part of the reason the North Koreans and their supporters believed that it would be an easy victory.

The second was that Truman was largely responsible for the fact that the US military had been so reduced in strength and effectiveness after WWII that the Communists rightly believed that they could succeed against what had been the most powerful military force on the planet just a few years before. They almost did succeed and it would have been a foreign policy debacle with far-reaching repercussions if they had.

The author Michael E. Haas makes a convincing argument for many of these points in his book In the Devil’s Shadow: “U.N. Special Operations During the Korean War” (2000).




7/93
 
Posts: 45893 | Location: 10,150 Feet Above Sea Level in Colorado | Registered: April 04, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by OttoSig:
quote:
Originally posted by Graniteguy:
So hypothetically - if NK decided to launch a missile in our general direction - would they really target a random commercial airliner?


You don't launch ICBM's at moving targets in general, and especially with NK's current systems.

Would have been more for feasible making sure nothing was in the way of defensive systems. But thats a WAG on my part.

I'd wager it was likely just precautionary.


OttoSig, Possible thread drift; I'm not furthering any discussion on the merits of any president but the event does beg the question as to why this happened this time and whether flights have been grounded every other time North Korea has had a launch. No we wouldn't launch an ICBM against a moving target (totally not the purpose of ICBMs). As I'm sure you know that is the reason for our various short range, mid-range, and long range interceptors. Most if not all air travel that would really affect any of our defensive detection assets aren't going to be bothered by continental U.S. assets and all of our land based interceptors are in California and Alaska. I suppose one could make the argument that this was more of a safety measure to ensure there was zero interference from any or harm possible to any pacific air traffic close to the U.S. if there were a launch but the article does not mention any over the ocean diversions.
 
Posts: 254 | Location: North Alabama | Registered: January 07, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I have no idea the rationale behind grounding flights to be honest.

From my desk at work it doesn't make sense.

The flight path doesn't match the reaction and that's about as far as I'll go into the intelligence that goes along with those decisions.

Not sure what it was about to be honest.





12 years to retirement! Just waiting!
 
Posts: 5006 | Location: Maryland | Registered: August 10, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Shall Not Be Infringed
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quote:
Originally posted by OttoSig:
Trump was netiher feared nor respected by KJU. Trust me.

As with many things, the answer is always somewhere in between. In this case, KJU was checked (to stop or slow down the progress of something undesirable) on the the global public stage, and that resulted in at least 'some' tempering of the threatening rhetoric by NK, as well as a curbing of direct activities in support/development of the means to back up and act on those threats. Even if only temporarily, this was not a bad thing, and created the opportunity for NK to reconsider it's path as an outlier and potentially join the more civilized world. It gave KJU an opportunity to choose an off ramp where he 'could' change paths with dignity rather than humiliation on the world stage, which 'could' have also earned him respect in the eyes of the North Korean population as well. That's not nothing, and in my opinion a was a bold move by Trump that had much more upside potential than downwside risk.


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Posts: 6203 | Location: New Hampshire | Registered: October 29, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by nhracecraft:
That's not nothing, and in my opinion a was a bold move by Trump that had much more upside potential than downwside risk.


That i can agree with, but most of what else you said is not correct. Correct in what happened, but not in the actual cause. Remember, I've said it before, half of what I hear on the news regarding NK is downright wrong and the other half aint far off.

Trump's actions played no part in NK's actions. They are not influenced or detered by anyone other than their own agenda. The two are not connected.





12 years to retirement! Just waiting!
 
Posts: 5006 | Location: Maryland | Registered: August 10, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Freethinker
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quote:
Originally posted by OttoSig:
Not sure what it was about to be honest.


Although it hardly seems likely under this Administration at this point, perhaps a way to say to the public, “See, that regime is dangerous that now its reckless behavior is even interfering with our air commerce.” It’s common for governments that want to justify later actions that they have in mind to exaggerate the importance of such events. It’s also a common way of deflecting attention from things like domestic problems such as the economy—which seems more likely in this situation.




7/93
 
Posts: 45893 | Location: 10,150 Feet Above Sea Level in Colorado | Registered: April 04, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Optimistic Cynic
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Is it possible that the FAA was testing their effectiveness in completing a ground stop, and/or trying to determine how long it might take to get a normal business day's traffic onto the tarmac, and that the Korean launch was just a coincidence of timing?
 
Posts: 5264 | Location: NoVA | Registered: July 22, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by sigfreund:
quote:
Originally posted by OttoSig:
Not sure what it was about to be honest.


Although it hardly seems likely under this Administration at this point, perhaps a way to say to the public, “See, that regime is dangerous that now its reckless behavior is even interfering with our air commerce.” It’s common for governments that want to justify later actions that they have in mind to exaggerate the importance of such events.


I've got that same thought, wasn't sure how to word it.

I was thinking along the lines of showing the public, "we take this kind of thing serious". When the actual event may be a serious one, but no more serious than the previous numerous launches into the SOJ.





12 years to retirement! Just waiting!
 
Posts: 5006 | Location: Maryland | Registered: August 10, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by OttoSig:


Trump was neither feared nor respected by KJU. Trust me.


You are going to have to better than that.
I respect your opinion but trust alone is not quite enough.
We would welcome any facts.
 
Posts: 20767 | Location: Houston, TX | Registered: June 11, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by smschulz:
quote:
Originally posted by OttoSig:


Trump was neither feared nor respected by KJU. Trust me.


You are going to have to better than that.
I respect your opinion but trust alone is not quite enough.
We would welcome any facts.


Unless we are sitting in a SCIF you can take what I said for whatever value you put on it.

I have studied North Korea for 7 years now, my degree is in those studies.

The North Korean timeline from WWII to today was not altered by Trump himself.

And again, in this environment I'm not gonna say anything about facts as that's not too Kosher with regards to my job.

Take it for what it's worth. I'm not bashing Trump or putting him down, he simply is no different in this topic than anyone else from this country.

I agree with the previous sentiments that his efforts are commendable, however fruitless they were. But that's a far cry from feared and respected.

To understand the ideology of North Korea, each leader having their own agenda to use as a way to motivate, move, encourage, brainwash the masses.

KIS presented Juche, which is still the battle cry so to speak. Though its only shouted due to fear.

KJI changed it up a bit to "Songun", or military-first.

KJU has made it his goal to make their nation a nuclear power.

ANYTHING less than accomplishing this goal goes to the core of their culture and would be the same as telling his entire nation, "I have failed, I am a failure and a quitter."

There isn't a scenerio where this would happen, certainly not one that could be in any way linked to being made possible by an American President.





12 years to retirement! Just waiting!
 
Posts: 5006 | Location: Maryland | Registered: August 10, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Tinker Sailor Soldier Pie
Picture of Balzé Halzé
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by smschulz:
quote:
Originally posted by OttoSig:


Trump was neither feared nor respected by KJU. Trust me.


You are going to have to better than that.
I respect your opinion but trust alone is not quite enough.
We would welcome any facts.


Yeah, Kim's actions and behavior say something very different.


~Alan

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Posts: 28529 | Location: Elv. 7,000 feet, Utah | Registered: October 29, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:
quote:
Originally posted by smschulz:
quote:
Originally posted by OttoSig:


Trump was neither feared nor respected by KJU. Trust me.


You are going to have to better than that.
I respect your opinion but trust alone is not quite enough.
We would welcome any facts.


Yeah, Kim's actions and behavior say something very different.


I understand that at face value it would seem that way, but it wasn't because of DJT. And with that gentlemen I'll leave you to discuss. Believe me or not, I won't lose sleep tonight.





12 years to retirement! Just waiting!
 
Posts: 5006 | Location: Maryland | Registered: August 10, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by sigfreund:
I often get the impression that Truman is the last (only?) Democrat President that anyone on the Right believes is worthy of any respect, but what happened in Korea was hardly one of his praiseworthy accomplishments.

I strongly believe that the Communists were encouraged to attack the South for two main reasons. The first was that the US had previously made it clear that South Korea was not in the geographic area that we were willing to defend against aggression. That had been such a clearly-recognized element of our foreign policy that our military was caught flat-footed and unprepared when Truman decided to defend the country. I personally believe that his decision was correct, but by not having made that resolve clear prior to the invasion it was part of the reason the North Koreans and their supporters believed that it would be an easy victory.

The second was that Truman was largely responsible for the fact that the US military had been so reduced in strength and effectiveness after WWII that the Communists rightly believed that they could succeed against what had been the most powerful military force on the planet just a few years before. They almost did succeed and it would have been a foreign policy debacle with far-reaching repercussions if they had.

The author Michael E. Haas makes a convincing argument for many of these points in his book In the Devil’s Shadow: “U.N. Special Operations During the Korean War” (2000).


I wasn't insinuating he did anything remotely praiseworthy, more setting a timeline since I couldn't pick a President before him to compare North Korean relations on.

I agree with everything you said. Some overestimates on KIS's part, many underestimates on the US's part. Mistakes by MacArthur because of ego and what not. So many mistakes and poor calls, not necessarily poor decision, but poor judgement have gotten us to this point.





12 years to retirement! Just waiting!
 
Posts: 5006 | Location: Maryland | Registered: August 10, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Who the hell calls a ground stop because of a missile launch 6000 miles away?


---------------------------------------
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Posts: 3625 | Location: Cary, NC | Registered: February 26, 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Jimbo Jones:
Who the hell calls a ground stop because of a missile launch 6000 miles away?


True...at the heart of this conversation that is the question.

But most countries notify of a test launch. Wanna guess if NK thinks they are low enough to notify anyone.

So if a predetermined flight path wasn't known, then you got minutes to react to an East-bound ballistic missile launch.

I still think it's silly and an overreaction at best, but I was also in charge of the NK missile watch during the 2018 "ICBM Text Message" in Hawaii. You wanna talk about silly. I aint never woke up to 1000 text messages before LMAO.





12 years to retirement! Just waiting!
 
Posts: 5006 | Location: Maryland | Registered: August 10, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
I'm Fine
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Every nation - including NK - takes into account what other countries will or won't do when they make very large decisions. If you haven't learned that, then your 7 years was a waste.

I'm not qualified to argue the merits of what one president did vs another. Maybe you are.
But to pretend that NK doesn't care what our presidents say or do is likely wrong. Kim may not care much; but he pays attention. It just makes sense. Even insane people pay attention to outside influences and let that affect their decisions (the decisions may not be what we would call normal; granted).


------------------
SBrooks
 
Posts: 3790 | Location: East Tennessee | Registered: August 21, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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