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North Korean missile launch causes ground stop order by FAA on Monday Login/Join 
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Picture of maladat
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One possible reason to ground planes for an ICBM launch is if they were worried about a high-altitude nuclear detonation causing an EMP that could screw with airplanes’ control systems.
 
Posts: 5899 | Location: TX | Registered: January 24, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by PASig:
If Trump wasn't feared or respected by KJU, then explain why all these "test" launches of various NK missiles virtually stopped during his time in office, then picked right back up when he was gone?


This is what I mean. You THINK it stopped.

Like I said, I do this daily. But listen to the news if that's what gives you a chub.





13 years to retirement! Just waiting!
 
Posts: 4616 | Location: Seoul | Registered: August 10, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Little ray
of sunshine
Picture of jhe888
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by 220-9er:

I think others may be confusing the supposed reduction in tests with the claim they stopped their atomic tests (not missile) during part of the Trump administration.

https://www.npr.org/sections/t...tests-shows-progress


That April 2018 report was that Kim announced that the NORKS would stop missile and nuclear testing, not that he actually did. He did not stop missile testing and made a lot more tests after the date of that story. There have been no further nuke tests after September 2017. The NORKS claimed to have tested a fusion bomb in September 2017, but some westerners thought it was a boosted fission bomb.

Given that they continued to test missiles after that announcement and during Trump's term, I think it is more rational to think they stopped testing nukes for their own reasons, and not out of fear of the U.S. under Trump.

Trump took credit, of course, as any politician would.




The fish is mute, expressionless. The fish doesn't think because the fish knows everything.
 
Posts: 50793 | Location: Texas | Registered: February 10, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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JHE is absolutely correct.

Nothing actually stopped, just smoke and mirrors from politicians.

The reason no more Nuke tests have happened is a lot more comical than you'd ever guess and it also has nothing to do with diplomacy.

I got folks making cases that our policies are preventing them from doing something that will 99% surely end in their own demise. They're not ignorant, that's not fear or respect of policy, that's human freaking nature.

I can't argue no more, Ive said it once, now it's on me wasting my own breath.





13 years to retirement! Just waiting!
 
Posts: 4616 | Location: Seoul | Registered: August 10, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Little ray
of sunshine
Picture of jhe888
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by OttoSig:

The reason no more Nuke tests have happened is a lot more comical than you'd ever guess and it also has nothing to do with diplomacy.



It seems to me I remember something about them damaging their own test sites. But what I can find is that while they closed the tunnels by demolishing the entrances, the support buildings are not gone, and the tunnels themselves are still there and the entrances could be re-opened.

Perhaps, and this is just a guess, they are trying to conserve fissile material, which is not easy to make. That isn't comical, though, so . . .

Maybe they realized they knew how to make a working bomb and that more tests weren't needed. Again, not very comical.




The fish is mute, expressionless. The fish doesn't think because the fish knows everything.
 
Posts: 50793 | Location: Texas | Registered: February 10, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Fighting the good fight
Picture of RogueJSK
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C'mon guys... Why do we keep doing this to ourselves?

There are folks on this forum that are bona fide experts in certain fields. That is inevitable, on a forum this large and diverse.

But the sad truth is that a decent number of them end up getting driven away from the forum by the actions of other members. It usually goes something like this:

A topic is posted about which someone is an expert. The expert chimes in to post information based on their expertise. Then the thread gets dogpiled by other members who think they are experts, based on what they've seen on the news, or read on the interwebs, or heard at the lunch counter, or whatever, but who actually don't know what they're talking about (or as much as they think they know). The expert's information then gets drowned out - or even actively argued against - by the casual musings of the uninformed/misinformed/less-informed.

Unfortunately, this sometimes happens to the extent that the experts then get frustrated and either quit the forum altogether, or just stop responding to threads involving their area of expertise, depriving us of their valuable input either way.

Doesn't matter if it's appliance repair, or foreign relations, or the law, or finances, or gunsmithing. It keeps happening.

We've gotta do better.
 
Posts: 28248 | Location: Northwest Arkansas | Registered: January 06, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Little ray
of sunshine
Picture of jhe888
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by RogueJSK:
C'mon guys... How many time do we have to do this?

There are folks on this forum that are bonafide experts in certain fields. That is inevitable, on a forum this large and diverse.

But the sad truth is that a decent number of them end up getting driven away from the forum by the actions of other members. It usually goes something like this:

A topic is posted about which someone is an expert. They post information based on their expertise. Then the thread gets dogpiled by other members who think they are experts in their own mind, based on what they've seen on the news, or read on the interwebs, or heard at the lunch counter, or whatever, but who actually don't know what they're talking about (or as much as they think they know). The expert's information then gets drowned out - or even actively argued against - by the musing of the uninformed/misinformed.

Unfortunately, this tends to happen often enough that the experts then get frustrated and either quit the forum altogether, or just stop responding to threads involving their expertise, depriving us of their valuable input either way.

Doesn't matter if it's appliances, or foreign relations, or the law, or finances, or gunsmithing. It's happened before, and will likely happen again.

We've gotta do better.


Alas, the facts have very little to do with people's beliefs. They can, and will engage in all sorts of mental gyrations to square their beliefs with actual facts. I catch myself doing it sometimes. No one is immune.

Here is a brief description of the problem. Note that this comes from Texas A&M, which is not a hotbed of woke thought. TAMU is as conservative as a big, mainstream university can get.

https://today.tamu.edu/2020/12...contradictory-facts/




The fish is mute, expressionless. The fish doesn't think because the fish knows everything.
 
Posts: 50793 | Location: Texas | Registered: February 10, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Fighting the good fight
Picture of RogueJSK
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See also https://thefederalist.com/2014...-death-of-expertise/ , which then formed the basis of the expanded book of the same name by the same author.
 
Posts: 28248 | Location: Northwest Arkansas | Registered: January 06, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Fire begets Fire
Picture of SIGnified
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by RogueJSK:
C'mon guys... Why do we keep doing this to ourselves?

There are folks on this forum that are bonafide experts in certain fields. That is inevitable, on a forum this large and diverse.

But the sad truth is that a decent number of them end up getting driven away from the forum by the actions of other members. It usually goes something like this:

A topic is posted about which someone is an expert. The expert chimes in to post information based on their expertise. Then the thread gets dogpiled by other members who think they are experts, based on what they've seen on the news, or read on the interwebs, or heard at the lunch counter, or whatever, but who actually don't know what they're talking about (or as much as they think they know). The expert's information then gets drowned out - or even actively argued against - by the casual musings of the uninformed/misinformed/less-informed.

Unfortunately, this sometimes happens to the extent that the experts then get frustrated and either quit the forum altogether, or just stop responding to threads involving their expertise, depriving us of their valuable input either way.

Doesn't matter if it's appliance repair, or foreign relations, or the law, or finances, or gunsmithing. It keeps happening.

We've gotta do better.


From experience, if he is who he says he is (not doubting necessarily) with the access e.g. have to be in a skiff to discuss … ok lookie here … you can’t talk class to unclass regardless of the room sec. So you should not even have the appearance of “knowing something” and telling the WORLD… Did you miss your recert on your class?

And I would never risk my Clarence talking about my specific job on the Internet forum… Ever

Furthermore I know people who have held that job as naval commanders.

If you’re read in… No Taki Taki





"Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty."
~Robert A. Heinlein
 
Posts: 23581 | Location: Row 2F | Registered: February 04, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
quote:
Unfortunately, this tends to happen often enough that the experts then get frustrated and either quit the forum altogether, or just stop responding to threads involving their expertise, depriving us of their valuable input either way

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
It is enjoyable to a point. Putting a bucket over a high presssure water line. That was funny in light of the engineering expertise shown by other members. I will admit that I refrain from commenting much less reading threads in my area.
 
Posts: 11699 | Location: Stuck at home | Registered: January 02, 2015Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by maladat:
One possible reason to ground planes for an ICBM launch is if they were worried about a high-altitude nuclear detonation causing an EMP that could screw with airplanes’ control systems.

An atmospheric nuclear detention would not only fry any nearby airplane avionics but, any electrical grid below and nearby orbiting satellites above as well... which would be enough justification to go to war. The NORKS are a lot of things but, I don't think they're going to do that at this point in the game.
In my uneducated opinion, the ground halt was likely to clear the air and give air defense radar clear airspace to track the launch. It could also have been an error, perhaps a test, no idea and there's been no comment from Strategic Command or FAA.
 
Posts: 12182 | Location: Wine Country | Registered: September 20, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by SIGnified:
quote:
Originally posted by RogueJSK:
C'mon guys... Why do we keep doing this to ourselves?

There are folks on this forum that are bonafide experts in certain fields. That is inevitable, on a forum this large and diverse.

But the sad truth is that a decent number of them end up getting driven away from the forum by the actions of other members. It usually goes something like this:

A topic is posted about which someone is an expert. The expert chimes in to post information based on their expertise. Then the thread gets dogpiled by other members who think they are experts, based on what they've seen on the news, or read on the interwebs, or heard at the lunch counter, or whatever, but who actually don't know what they're talking about (or as much as they think they know). The expert's information then gets drowned out - or even actively argued against - by the casual musings of the uninformed/misinformed/less-informed.

Unfortunately, this sometimes happens to the extent that the experts then get frustrated and either quit the forum altogether, or just stop responding to threads involving their expertise, depriving us of their valuable input either way.

Doesn't matter if it's appliance repair, or foreign relations, or the law, or finances, or gunsmithing. It keeps happening.

We've gotta do better.


From experience, if he is who he says he is (not doubting necessarily) with the access e.g. have to be in a skiff to discuss … ok lookie here … you can’t talk class to unclass regardless of the room sec. So you should not even have the appearance of “knowing something” and telling the WORLD… Did you miss your recert on your class?

And I would never risk my Clarence talking about my specific job on the Internet forum… Ever

Furthermore I know people who have held that job as naval commanders.

If you’re read in… No Taki Taki


1. It's called a SCIF.
2. Because I handle classified information doesn't deny me the right to discuss open source information.
3. Simply stating I am a CTI in the Navy let's folks know more about what I do than this conversation.
4. Furthermore, knowing someone doesn't mean you know WTF you're talking about.





13 years to retirement! Just waiting!
 
Posts: 4616 | Location: Seoul | Registered: August 10, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Fire begets Fire
Picture of SIGnified
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by OttoSig:
quote:
Originally posted by SIGnified:
quote:
Originally posted by RogueJSK:
C'mon guys... Why do we keep doing this to ourselves?

There are folks on this forum that are bonafide experts in certain fields. That is inevitable, on a forum this large and diverse.

But the sad truth is that a decent number of them end up getting driven away from the forum by the actions of other members. It usually goes something like this:

A topic is posted about which someone is an expert. The expert chimes in to post information based on their expertise. Then the thread gets dogpiled by other members who think they are experts, based on what they've seen on the news, or read on the interwebs, or heard at the lunch counter, or whatever, but who actually don't know what they're talking about (or as much as they think they know). The expert's information then gets drowned out - or even actively argued against - by the casual musings of the uninformed/misinformed/less-informed.

Unfortunately, this sometimes happens to the extent that the experts then get frustrated and either quit the forum altogether, or just stop responding to threads involving their expertise, depriving us of their valuable input either way.

Doesn't matter if it's appliance repair, or foreign relations, or the law, or finances, or gunsmithing. It keeps happening.

We've gotta do better.


From experience, if he is who he says he is (not doubting necessarily) with the access e.g. have to be in a skiff to discuss … ok lookie here … you can’t talk class to unclass regardless of the room sec. So you should not even have the appearance of “knowing something” and telling the WORLD… Did you miss your recert on your class?

And I would never risk my Clarence talking about my specific job on the Internet forum… Ever

Furthermore I know people who have held that job as naval commanders.

If you’re read in… No Taki Taki


1. It's called a SCIF.
2. Because I handle classified information doesn't deny me the right to discuss open source information.
3. Simply stating I am a CTI in the Navy let's folks know more about what I do than this conversation.
4. Furthermore, knowing someone doesn't mean you know WTF you're talking about.



Ha ha ha lol


Good try … keep swinging…



Ha ha ha ha ha. Big Grin





"Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty."
~Robert A. Heinlein
 
Posts: 23581 | Location: Row 2F | Registered: February 04, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by OttoSig:

2. Because I handle classified information doesn't deny me the right to discuss open source information.


Quite right, but here it's all about diminish, deflect, and dismiss.

Yes, it's your job and you're an expert in your field but I think...because I read on the internet...you're fake news...this is the way it really is 'cause a friend of a friend told me...

Diminish you and put you down.

Deflect to a different subject or source.

Dismiss you entirely. Eliminate that which threatens their perceived world.

Familiar.
 
Posts: 6500 | Registered: September 13, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of maladat
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by corsair:
quote:
Originally posted by maladat:
One possible reason to ground planes for an ICBM launch is if they were worried about a high-altitude nuclear detonation causing an EMP that could screw with airplanes’ control systems.

An atmospheric nuclear detention would not only fry any nearby airplane avionics but, any electrical grid below and nearby orbiting satellites above as well... which would be enough justification to go to war. The NORKS are a lot of things but, I don't think they're going to do that at this point in the game.
In my uneducated opinion, the ground halt was likely to clear the air and give air defense radar clear airspace to track the launch. It could also have been an error, perhaps a test, no idea and there's been no comment from Strategic Command or FAA.


I also have a pretty hard time believing they would be that stupid, but no doubt the government has emergency plans for it somewhere that include grounding aircraft.
 
Posts: 5899 | Location: TX | Registered: January 24, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Nullus Anxietas
Picture of ensigmatic
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by SIGnified:
Ha ha ha lol

Good try … keep swinging…

Ha ha ha ha ha. Big Grin

Well, that was certainly convincing.

Or would have been, had you included "'nuff said" or <mic drop>.




"America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system,,,, but too early to shoot the bastards." -- Claire Wolfe
"If we let things terrify us, life will not be worth living." -- Seneca the Younger, Roman Stoic philosopher
"The dominant media is no more ``mainstream`` than leftists are liberals." -- me
 
Posts: 22040 | Location: S.E. Michigan | Registered: January 06, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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posted Hide Post
^^^^^^^^^^
haha Shades of Rhino without the GIF
 
Posts: 11699 | Location: Stuck at home | Registered: January 02, 2015Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Just because you can,
doesn't mean you should
posted Hide Post
Sounding more like this "ground stop" news is somewhat overblown.
This wasn't a 9/11 type, stop all traffic, everybody on the ground right now, type incident.
Once again the Norks seem to be getting a lot of mileage for their money with an assist from their friends in the news media and internet chatter.


___________________________
Avoid buying ChiCom/CCP products whenever possible.
 
Posts: 7514 | Location: NE GA | Registered: August 22, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Alea iacta est
Picture of Beancooker
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by OttoSig:


KIS presented Juche…

KJI changed it up a bit to "Songun"…



If the forum software will allow Korean characters, would you please write them in Korean?



quote:
Balzé Halzé:now I see that you're about as bright as a black hole, and twice as dense. Good lord.
The “lol” thread
 
Posts: 3089 | Location: Staring down at you with disdain, from the spooky mountaintop castle.  | Registered: November 20, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Freethinker
Picture of sigfreund
posted Hide Post
An Air Force Times article today.
========================

Did the military prepare to shoot down a North Korean missile from the West Coast?

At around the same time North Korea said it fired off a hypersonic weapon, the Federal Aviation Administration issued a ground stop order for air traffic operating in the Western U.S. and Hawaii.

This was likely no coincidence, according to The War Zone. Both the overall duration of North Korea’s missile test and the grounding and subsequent resumption of U.S. flights occurred along the same timeline, the publication reported.

The War Zone reported that multiple pilot reports and radio communications from that day mention a “national security issue” as the reason for the temporary ground stop.

According to the War Zone, just before 2:30 pm PST on Jan. 10, North Korea test-launched a hypersonic missile eastward towards Japan and the U.S. By no later than 2:32 pm PST, ground stop orders were issued for Anchorage, Seattle, Oakland, and Los Angeles. Air traffic control messaging acquired by The War Zone indicated that NORAD advised of a missile launch from North Korea impacting air space from the Aleutian Islands south to Los Angeles.

Sixteen minutes later, according to The War Zone, NORAD issued another advisory, this time indicating that the North Korean missile had splashed in the waters off the coast of Japan and that regular air traffic could resume.

Additionally, the War Zone reports that NORAD advised the FAA to clear airspace around Vandenberg Space Force Base just minutes before the initial ground stop order to pilots was issued.

Vandenberg Space Force Base is located less than 200 north of Los Angeles and has long been the site of U.S. ballistic missile testing and employment. Additionally, Vandenberg is the home of a limited amount of Ground-Based Midcourse Defense missiles capable of intercepting ICBMs.

Who issued the ground-stoppage and why remains a question.

The Defense Department deferred comment to U.S. Northern Command, which did not immediately respond to a Military Times query.

U.S. Strategic Command would not comment on the incident to the Drive, while NORAD denied having a role in the issuance of the ground-stop-order. Additionally, the FAA released a statement on the ground stop order which stopped short of a reason for the agency doing so. The FAA did not immediately respond to a Military Times request for comment.

LINK




“The fundamental cause of trouble in the world today is that the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt.”
— Bertrand Russell
 
Posts: 44837 | Location: 10,150 Feet Above Sea Level in Colorado | Registered: April 04, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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