The statement on federally mandated vaccines by the AAPS in the link I posted.

Roadkill, Mrvmax, others...

I know you think you're smart. Your strategy will weed you out of the gene pool, at this rate.

I might be wrong, but science on this is reliable.

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Originally posted by mrvmax:

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Originally posted by tatortodd:

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Originally posted by mrvmax:

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Originally posted by Crom:

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Originally posted by tatortodd:
Most of the anti-vaxxers that I have encountered haven't had a science class since high school and barely got by then. They might have college degrees but they aren't in the sciences.

I have an advanced degree in science (engineering actually) and I have been accused of being an "anti-vaxxer" for pointing out that it is not a simple as the "pro-vaxxers" would like it to be.

Vaccines definitely have a real risk associated with them also. We could get into the details of Guillen-Barre-syndrome, manufacturing errors, infections, etc, etc, etc, etc, but it would side-track the issue. I think the main point is simply this: If a person has any "human rights" at all, then certainly they have the right to refuse to be injected with a foreign substance against their will.
Maybe it is a "stupid decision"; but they have a right to make that decision. Yes, even in that case of children. Parents make stupid decisions for children all the time.
The danger of catching a rare disease is. IMO, far lower than the danger of having a government presume to be able to tell citizens what they MUST be injected with.

I was one of the people who didn't go get a swine flu vaccination in 1976. Pro-vaxxers can go read the wikipedia page about that debacle.
I do, however, get vaccines for anything that I deem a reasonable risk. The point is that I get to decide, even if it is stupid.

Great point, I’m glad someone else thinks like me. Unlike what others may think, it doesn’t take a degree in science to know I don’t blindly follow what the govt wants. I never get the flu vaccine and that’s my choice. I’ve also never had the flu and the majority of my friends have. I’ve decided it’s not necessary for me. I’m glad we don’t yet live in a society where others can decide whether I need a vaccine or not. Now I’m also not agreeing with this family but if a woman can legally choose to kill her child prior to birth I have no problems with families deciding whether they want to get vaccinated.

For Pete's sake, my post was about anti-vaxxers who refuse ALL vaccines not people who choose based on risk. Talk about taking something out of context and choosing the most ludicrous anti-vaxxer definition possible.

I'm going to Canada next month and I'm not getting a yellow fever shot or taking anti-malarials because there is no risk. However, if I were going to Sub-Saharan Africa I would be getting a yellow fever shot and taking anti-malarials as both are prevalent.

More importantly, tetanus is the topic of this thread and the virus is prevalaent in every part of the globe and nearly everyone is exposed in their every day lives. Only someone who is allergic or someone who is bad at risk management doesn't get tetanus vaccinations.

Some posts were about forcing people to do something they choose not to do. It’s not your choice to decide who gets tetanus shots. The government cannot properly control all the regulations they currently have to protect children. Literally millions of children are killed every year worldwide and a million in the US legally yet people are bent out of shape over this family. Pretty hypocritical. That’s my point and it’s not taking this discussion out of context since it boils down to whether govt should make them do it or not. I don’t agree with their choice but I’m not going to say the govt is the solution here. Our government is not the solution to our problems.

If that’s your issue then quote their comments not mine as mine was not about that. It’s not that tough to quote properly.

I am not an anti-vaxxer. My kids have shot records that are up to date. However, my trust in the government and vaccines has been greatly eroded by my time on active duty. I personally know 6 people forced to have shots that later developed serious side effects which permanently took them off deployment status. All of those side effects were, I believe, the result of the anthrax shot series.

The military hasn’t lost any service members to anthrax since the ME wars started, but we’ve lost many to the supposed vaccine. I’ll never trust military medicine again, and although I think these parents (in OP post) are acting shamefully we must recognize as a society that doctors have made many errors and the government has forced things on people they shouldn’t have. The reason these crazy assholes in OP article exist is because the medical system has rushed things out and in its haste the government has a history of not being careful.

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Originally posted by roadkill:
The statement on federally mandated vaccines by the AAPS in the link I posted.

My point is that nothing is ever really 100% reliable and safe.

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6 year old Oregan boy contracts tetanus, almost dies, spends 47 days in ICU, parents still refuse vaccine

Forget for a moment whether the kid should have been vaccinated for tetanus (this particular one is, or should be, a no-brainer) in the first place. What good would it do after the full-blown disease has developed? Is it not too late at this point?

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Originally posted by arabiancowboy:
I am not an anti-vaxxer. My kids have shot records that are up to date. However, my trust in the government and vaccines has been greatly eroded by my time on active duty. I personally know 6 people forced to have shots that later developed serious side effects which permanently took them off deployment status. All of those side effects were, I believe, the result of the anthrax shot series.

The military hasn’t lost any service members to anthrax since the ME wars started, but we’ve lost many to the supposed vaccine. I’ll never trust military medicine again, and although I think these parents (in OP post) are acting shamefully we must recognize as a society that doctors have made many errors and the government has forced things on people they shouldn’t have. The reason these crazy assholes in OP article exist is because the medical system has rushed things out and in its haste the government has a history of not being careful.

"but we’ve lost many to the supposed vaccine"

You have a link to a reliable source for that info? Thanks.

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Originally posted by egregore:

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6 year old Oregan boy contracts tetanus, almost dies, spends 47 days in ICU, parents still refuse vaccine

Forget for a moment whether the kid should have been vaccinated for tetanus (this particular one is, or should be, a no-brainer) in the first place. What good would it do after the full-blown disease has developed? Is it not too late at this point?

I'm not sure, but this was in the article:

"Unlike measles or some other disease, getting infected with tetanus doesn’t make someone immune for life. A person could get tetanus multiple times during a lifespan if not vaccinated."

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"Unlike measles or some other disease, getting infected with tetanus doesn’t make someone immune for life. A person could get tetanus multiple times during a lifespan if not vaccinated."

So to prevent future infections, not as a treatment for the current one. That makes sense.

Considering the amount of rust and dirt I encounter working on cars, and seldom get through a month without beating myself up, I probably ought to get a booster. The last one I had was - I think - circa 1989-90.

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Originally posted by V-Tail:
I have two questions for the doctors here:

1. How often should the tetanus vaccination be repeated, on a routine basis?

Normally, every 10 years.

But, if you sustained an open wound/cut that is dirty, or sustain a penetrating wound that is dirty (e.g., a dirty/rusty nail), then:

- You need that booster, even if it has been less than 10 years, but more than 5 years since your last tetanus.
- You do not need the booster, if it has been less than 5 years.

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After getting hit with Guillain Barré Syndrome a couple of years ago, my doc told me that many immunization shots were on the "no go" list for me, including flu shots, pneumonia, and shingles. My question here: are tetanus shots safe for me?

That is a good question. Did you get GBS out of the blue? Or, did you get it, after receiving one of the vaccines? ACIP guidelines only say it is a precaution (not contraindication) to getting the vaccine, if you developed "GBS <6 weeks after previous dose of tetanus-toxoid–containing vaccine". They say nothing about having a history of GBS that is unrelated to getting the shot. So, this is something you really need to discuss with your physician regarding the risk/benefit deal.

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/h...ntraindications.html

I ran a nail through my foot....

Dr. "When was your last shot?"

Me: blank stare, some mutterings...

Dr. "I'll have the nurse give you a tetanus shot"

Me "I'm not sure I need that..."
Dr. "This us what will happen if you get...."
Me scared shitless
"can I get two?"

Society’s interference with the rights of its individual members to do whatever they wanted started with things like public health, but of course that has expanded greatly in modern times. One thing recognized in most civilized countries is the obligation of the community to protect its members who cannot protect themselves. That is actually a fairly recent development. Only in the last few decades, for example, have husbands largely lost the immunity, or indeed the legal right, to rape and beat their wives whenever they felt like it.

The same is true of how parents are permitted to treat their children today. I had good parents, but legally I had few legal or social protections if they’d chosen to abuse me as a child. That has changed dramatically, but although many protections are in place today, what has lagged behind is the recognition of what children should be protected against.

If a toddler was seen playing in a street today, most people would immediately report it to the police regardless of the protestations of her parents that it was not dangerous because all their neighbors were careful drivers. When I was a child, floatation devices were not required when boating. Seat belts were unknown, certainly not required to be worn, much less were safety seats for young children mandated. And yet what responsible parents would deny their children such protections today?

Unfortunately, however, although there’s no good reason why parents can justify their resistance to vaccinations, they’re still allowed to get away with denying their children the protections they provide. Are they 100% safe? Some are not, but are youth sports or countless other activities we could name, including just riding in a car, 100% safe either? As with all those other less-than-completely safe activities what are the risks versus the benefits?

I refuse to get flu shots because they're obviously government trackers.

But my RN wife makes me get one anyway.

Lol, typically I decline to get the flu shot because it ends up being a poor match to what’s out there. This year I did get it for my son, because of our extended travel outside the country and the number of airports/ travelers he’d be exposed to, as well as a concentrated locale of folks/children from everywhere once we returned to the states. Turned out to be a decent match this year, too.
I suspect if there was something along the lines of a polio outbreak people would be running to get their kids vaccinated. Vaccines are effective. They have done such a good job, we’ve forgotten how grateful we were to be able to immunize ourselves against some truly horrible diseases.

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Originally posted by irreverent:
Lol, typically I decline to get the flu shot because it ends up being a poor match to what’s out there. This year I did get it for my son, because of our extended travel outside the country and the number of airports/ travelers he’d be exposed to, as well as a concentrated locale of folks/children from everywhere once we returned to the states. Turned out to be a decent match this year, too.
I suspect if there was something along the lines of a polio outbreak people would be running to get their kids vaccinated. Vaccines are effective. They have done such a good job, we’ve forgotten how grateful we were to be able to immunize ourselves against some truly horrible diseases.

Doubtful. There is no reasoning with antivaxxers...they are dug in. Last year (2017-2018) 80k people died from the flu. Of those about 150 were unvaccinated children. Want to guess how many fully vaccinated kids died from the flu?

Stupid fucking anti vaxxers.

Talk about a misinformation campaign.

Vancouver WA is currently in the midst of a big measles outbreak because of idiots that won't vaccinate their kids.

This type of hysteria was around when I was a kid. Same thing, stemming from the same faulty, no fraudulent report. My high school years were in Portland. This was the talk at the time along with parents who would not let a doctor treat their child. Crap like this is insidious. People read scientific sounding sound bites or articles by supposed peoples with the proper knowledge base. I have family that ascribes to this bullshit. There is no talking to them. In the same manner that there is no talking to crossfitters, or glutards, people who are allergic to scents, or people who find racism in trees.

My mom had polio when she was a kid. It caused her severe issues throughout her life and having those issues corrected, took her life. Had the Salk vaccine been out at the time of her infection, she would have been vaccinated.

I hear stories about the anti-vaxers, and it makes my so furious. It’s putting the younger,and weaker people in society at risk, not to mention gambling with your kids health is child abuse.

This is pretty much exactly how I feel about the anti-vaxers:

https://youtu.be/RfdZTZQvuCo

After I graduated from high school, I worked construction that summer so I could save money for college.
I stepped on a nail on the site and was sent to the hospital and forced by the construction company to get a tetanus shot.
The shot almost killed me. My throat swelled so much I struggled to breathe, I had hives and was out of it, even while I was awake. After 3 days, I was better.
When I went to basic training a year later, they again tried to force me to take that shot. Luckily for me, the amount of bitching I did, along with a letter from my doctor, kept me from not getting another. Even then, had I not asked what was in each shot, I would have gotten it.
So, that is where I stand on it, not everybody can take every shot they give.

Rabies is always fatal in humans. It would be interesting to see an anti-vaxxer get rabies and refuse the vaccine. it would be interesting to see if the anti-vaxxer sticks to their guns.