Honest, and I hope non-judgmental question: If the guy is on his porch, and you are on the other side of the street, behind cover, with a rifle, and the guy on the porch doesn't have a long gun in his hands or isn't actually shooting a pistol, why are you shooting? Even if he pulls a pistol from his waist band, you already have him sighted, and you have cover. Can't they wait just another heartbeat to make sure innocent people aren't shot on their porch? It's dark, for fucks sake, and his entire world is flashing blue and white lights. He can't see shit.

Fuck me, I support the police but I hate seeing stuff like this.

It's either insufficient training, or too much adrenaline, or the wrong people are on the swat team, but that should not have happened.

quote:

Originally posted by a1abdj:

quote:

Arrived on scene, tells suspected murderer to show hands, drops him when he goes for a weapon. What more do you want?

I want an actual weapon to exist. Is that asking too much? Perhaps we should see a weapon prior to killing somebody?

Otherwise you get stories like this. Where fantasy vs. reality gets somebody killed. The "he could have, would have, should have" is great. But then we have reality. No weapon. Not on him. Not anywhere on the property. He wasn't "going for" anything. Yet he's dead. And he wasn't even somebody doing anything questionable. Just a guy, at his home, minding his own business.

A1, I had a few choice words that were none polite, but then I remembered I'm not talking with someone who gets the pressure a responding officer is under. This is one reason why most cop shootings are judged by cops, is because they understand the pressure.


You get told someone is holding your family hostage, and they reach for the waistband when you confront them. You gonna let them get whatever item they have and present it at you? Because I wouldnt, and I'd go home to my family, which a good Agency would care more about. As should any citizen who wants good police presence. Otherwise, we will train officers to only shoot people AFTER they have been shot at. Since that is what you are asking for.

But, this is why you charge the dude who made the call with manslaughter, because of HIS decision the other guy ended up dead. This shooting only highlights some of the shittier parts of LEO jobs. Because you cant risk your life or your partner on a maybe. You know for sure.

quote:

Originally posted by mbinky:
Spoofed phone numbers drive me nuts also, but are there any legitimate uses for them? I can't think of any.

SOP for telemarketing and third party support companies. They spoof the number to appear to be from the company they represent. One call center may represent multiple companies. It is regulated, but not enforced.

quote:

Originally posted by H&K-Guy:
Shaka, when the walls fell.

There is so much fail to go around on this one. I don't know where to start.

H&K-Guy

Not to distract this thread, but:

“Temba. His arms open.”

In fact that inspires me...see you in the The Lair!

quote:

Originally posted by RogueJSK:
There is. The asshole arrested in the OP had called the police in Kansas, claimed to have shot and killed a man, and claimed to be holding other people hostage, who he planned to douse in gasoline and set on fire.

He had spoofed the phone call to make it appear that it originated from the victim's address. He believed that a guy who had made him angry in an online game lived there, but in actuality he did not.

So the police were responding to what they believed was a hostage situation with an armed murderer.

Tyler had an impressive imagination and certainly created a situation where it would appear that time was of the essence and prompt and decisive action was needed.

I wasn't there, I don't know if the police failed miserably, if the victim screwed up and acted in a manner that made himself appear to be a threat, or what happened. I also hope there is lots of good video and that a full, complete, and transparent investigation takes place. Personally, I hope that investigation exonerates the officer, but I am sure it is something he will live with the rest of his life whatever the investigation reveals.

As for Tyler, I couldn't finish the interview. He should be executed as slowly and painfully as soon as humanly possible. Besides admitting to doing this, besides having no conscience whatsoever, besides being an f-tard who seems to think it is cool to do things just for his amusement, the interview makes it completely clear that he is far too stupid to be having any resources whatsoever wasted on him. That two individuals came together and created the train wreck that is Tyler is a tragedy.

ETA: Didn’t see the bodycam video before posting the above. That video looks really ugly.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: slosig,

He shot someone without a weapon fatman. Moving your hands is one thing - but you seem to be saying there's no issue whatsoever with what happened - and if that's your stance - you're not going to get a lot of positive responses.

quote:

A1, I had a few choice words that were none polite, but then I remembered I'm not talking with someone who gets the pressure a responding officer is under.

How many times have you been shot at? How many times have you been ambushed by a gunman?

It may surprise you to know that I "Get it".

quote:

Otherwise, we will train officers to only shoot people AFTER they have been shot at. Since that is what you are asking for

No, I'm merely asking that officers see a weapon prior to reacting to a weapon.

Let's say the same spoofer called 911 and reported a fire inside the house. I wouldn't expect the fire department to show up, break out windows, and starting pumping thousands of gallons of water into the house without seeing an actual fire.

quote:

Originally posted by a1abdj:

quote:

A1, I had a few choice words that were none polite, but then I remembered I'm not talking with someone who gets the pressure a responding officer is under.

How many times have you been shot at? How many times have you been ambushed by a gunman?

It may surprise you to know that I "Get it".

quote:

Otherwise, we will train officers to only shoot people AFTER they have been shot at. Since that is what you are asking for

No, I'm merely asking that officers see a weapon prior to reacting to a weapon.

Let's say the same spoofer called 911 and reported a fire inside the house. I wouldn't expect the fire department to show up, break out windows, and starting pumping thousands of gallons of water into the house without seeing an actual fire.

I get your point on the fire department, however I would disagree since the fire dept would have visible signs that a fire was or was not taking place.

Have you retired a1? If you get it from the same way I do, we could just have vastly different training policies. Which would lead us to seeing this differently. I fault people passing judgement without having worked the job, since your 20/20 qbing, but having worked it, I'm curious as to why you'd react differently. I can't say every day beat cop would shoot, but getting swat involved means someone believed/was made to believe enough danger was present to warrant that use of force. Having not seen all the cams, we can only work with what we have. If its not clear he was unarmed, I can see them shooting him. He walked out naked? Yeah no reason to shoot.

a1abdj is not a LEO or retired LEO, fatmanspencer.

He's referring to having been the victim of an attack, in which he was ambushed by a gunman. (I don't recall the specifics, though...)

A1 I'd liked to hear the story, if nothing else. Email me if you can.

quote:

I fault people passing judgement without having worked the job

I disagree with the notion that you can't have an opinion or pass judgement without having worked the job. The guy shot was an unarmed innocent man. Professionals need to be better than "I thought he was reaching for a gun".

I wish that fuckup POS in LA would spend the rest of his miserable life in prison for this but being in California, he probably won't.

quote:

Originally posted by KMitch200:
I wish that fuckup POS in LA would spend the rest of his miserable life in prison for this but being in California, he probably won't.

The murder occurred in Kansas, you can be the District Attorney in whatever Kansas county will be charging Mr. Barris.

DAs are elected positions. It would be a black mark on his name if he let a CA court handle a case where someone in his KS jurisdiction was murdered.

As far as the police are concerned and whether it was a justifiable shoot with PC or not, I don't have enough facts yet to make a call.

Even if the police keystone copped it up, Mr. Barris does not get a pass. As described, it would appear that his actions fit the elements of Kansas' second degree murder:

quote:

21-5403. Murder in the second degree. (a) Murder in the second degree is the killing of a human being committed:

(1) Intentionally; or

(2) unintentionally but recklessly under circumstances manifesting extreme indifference to the value of human life.

Mr. Barris may not have intended death, but he knew that death might be a possible result of swatting, and he was ok with that result. His call was definitely voluntary and intentional, with all the made-up facts and false urgency he pumped into it (hostage situation, someone already shot, suspect armed, etc).

As far as federal charges, there was an attempt to pass a federal anti-swatting bill in 2015 (as politicians themselves have been the targets of swatting), it died in committee.

Since the crime crosses state lines the crime would be Federal, right? Being in California might not save him.

quote:

Originally posted by a1abdj:

quote:

A1, I had a few choice words that were none polite, but then I remembered I'm not talking with someone who gets the pressure a responding officer is under.

How many times have you been shot at? How many times have you been ambushed by a gunman?

It may surprise you to know that I "Get it".

quote:

Otherwise, we will train officers to only shoot people AFTER they have been shot at. Since that is what you are asking for

No, I'm merely asking that officers see a weapon prior to reacting to a weapon.

Let's say the same spoofer called 911 and reported a fire inside the house. I wouldn't expect the fire department to show up, break out windows, and starting pumping thousands of gallons of water into the house without seeing an actual fire.

Many times "going for the weapon" is all the time you have to react. By the time you see the weapon, that may be because it's pointing at you and/or has already been fired.

That's the shit part of the profession. Same situation, man was found to have a gun in his waistband, LEO would be praised for his quick thinking and reaction speed.

Exact same situation, no gun, he is damned.

I won't be arguing about the actions of the SWAT guys.

They would not have been there if not for the deliberate and calculated actions of the "swatter".

And not a lawyer, but I sure hope conspiracy charges can be brought and case made for that, filing false report, the FCC or federal laws involving the un-lawful use of the telephone, and any and all things that case can be made.

People who believe and act as if their actions are of no consequence to themselves press all my buttons.

His attitude is sociopath, his actions are way past the exit of reprehensible, and in my mind, clearly premeditated murder.

He is as guilty as someone putting a single round in a revolver, spinning the cylinder, putting to someone's head and pulling the trigger resulting in their death, and then trying to claim it is not his fault, but that of the manufacture for allowing that action to be accomplished.

I want him off my planet.

Wonder if there is a record of the Wichita authorities attempting to contact the "hostage house" by phone.

I'm not even sure what to say. This makes me physically ill. I grew up behind the blue curtain, and I support law enforcement, but twice now in several week's time, I've watched video of an unarmed white man with his hands up get shot by men with rifles trained on him for not precisely following multiple commands getting barked at him in a stressful, confusing manner. This is not ok. This is not how policing is supposed to work.

The body cam footage really bothers me. Exactly what should the dead man have done?

As for the shitstain SWAuTistic, I hope someone ends him. And I hope he never sees the footage of his proxy kill cam. Because I know he would enjoy it, and that pisses me off.

I used to admin a forum for a retail FPS game. I've had my life threatened by teenagers for banning them. Only one made me nervous enough to talk to the police, which I informed him of. He stopped. But the reality is, tough talk online can actually translate to real life violence.

quote:

Originally posted by fatmanspencer: You gonna let them get whatever item they have and present it at you? Because I wouldnt, and I'd go home to my family, which a good Agency would care more about.

Why do you think you have more right to go home to your family than the innocent man on the porch?

This and swatting in general is being discussed on several IT communities already. The popular views from people outside Sigforum can be enlightening.

To many people, it appears easy to implement prank swatting such as this on anyone. It also appears to many that little verification is done and one fake call can easily result in someone being killed by the police.

Here are a few popular comments:

"What bothers me about these situations is just the entire idea of "SWAT" as practiced. You are a cop with 5+ other cops. You all pull your guns. Someone comes to the door, groggy in the middle of the night. They may or may not understand you are police. They may or may not believe you are the police. They are definitely confused/frightened/angry by your presence. We now begin the dice rolling process. Since every police officer with a gun drawn is now a DECIDER they get a dice roll. Every single millisecond, all these dice are rolled simultaneously for the entire arrest process as the "suspect" is ordered around like they haven't been since grade school gym class. This process is designed to have a weapon be discharged."

"It is a sad state of affairs when you can get someone killed by calling the police on them."

"I understand that officers can be under immence stress during situations like this but the way that some officers shoot at even the slightest movement towards a wasteband makes me more fearful of being shot by a cop than a criminal."

This message has been edited. Last edited by: bryan11,