Posted by P220 Smudge:

quote:

This is a massive win, but the fight isn't totally over yet. You can and should do your part by going out and taking as much advantage of this as you can. This needs to become a total sea change in the firearms culture starting right fucking now. Spread the word, gentlemen. This is a massive win, but we need to keep it by making a future reversal of it logistically impossible by virtue of sheer numbers. If it eventually goes to the Supreme Court, it needs to be overwhelmingly "common use."

^^THIS^^ A thousand times over!!
We need to show that “in common use” is TOTALLY in place. The only way to do that is to GET IT NOW AS OFTEN AS POSSIBLE!
Yes, it will deplete some finances, put balances on paid off CCs but the payoff is freedom for ourselves and those that follow us.

Justice Department won’t enforce registration rules on silencers and certain guns after court ruling
The ATF said it will stop requiring federal approval for short-barreled rifles, shotguns and suppressors after a judge voided most of the law.

On Friday, the Justice Department announced it will no longer enforce registration requirements for short-barreled rifles, silencers, and other specialized firearms under the 1934 National Firearms Act following a federal court ruling.
U.S. District Judge James Wesley Hendrix ruled in August that most NFA restrictions are unconstitutional after Congress eliminated the $200 tax, stripping the legal basis for the registration system.
Registration remains mandatory for machine guns and 'destructive devices,' and all buyers must still pass standard background checks and fill out purchasing forms, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives said.
Groups supporting gun restrictions decried the decision as reckless, while Second Amendment Foundation Executive Director Adam Kraut called it a victory after 90 years of federal oversight.
Related federal lawsuits, including Brown v. ATF and Roberts v. ATF, will proceed to challenge remaining registration requirements as the fight for permanent solutions continues.

https://ground.news/article/if...ng-nationwide-relief

I think this was pretty much as fair as could be ruled, given the legal constraints. I'm really interested in what they have to say about FRTs, removing travel across state lines, and other issues alluded to in future guidance.

quote:

Originally posted by benny6:
I just got an e-mail from my supplier that I can now order silencers, SBR's, etc... without a SOT! I can now buy at dealer cost!!

ATF Guidance on NFA Product Transfers

We are pleased to announce that following guidance issued by ATF, RSR Group will begin processing orders immediately for NFA products without requiring registration and ATF approval prior to shipment to states where registration is not required, and there are no additional restrictions.

For states that have independent NFA registration requirements, RSR will continue to submit requests to ATF for approval, and orders will ship as soon as the Form 3 approval is received.

If you have any questions regarding how these changes may impact your purchases, please contact your service professional.

We appreciate your business!

THE ATF’s GUIDANCE LETTER SAYS OTHERWISE.

quote:

Under the guidance, licensed dealers must still complete Form 4473s, run NICS background checks, keep records, and follow all other Gun Control Act requirements. Those engaged in the business are required to pay any special occupational tax.

quote:

Originally posted by Opus Dei:
I think this was pretty much as fair as could be ruled, given the legal constraints. I'm really interested in what they have to say about FRTs, removing travel across state lines, and other issues alluded to in future guidance.

The FRT issue is a big one. Only one FRT was named by the ATF yet many companies are selling them and there are videos all over the web with people shooting them. They are not supposed to be on pistols either yet you see that being done too. As it stands right now, only Rare Breed is legal and only on long guns. It makes sense that all that are similar to Rare Breed are legal, but the govt never operates on what makes sense.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
This is how the brace business started.

But, I would argue FRTs are different as machine guns are clearly defined in mechanical terms and not just rate of fire.
FRTs do not mechanically function as a machine gun.

Why do you say FRTs can’t be on a pistol?? I have not heard that and again there is nothing illegal about an FRT and how it functions. Why can’t it be on a pistol?

Do all trigger manufacturers have to seek ATF approval?

The brace was slightly different as the clear definition of a stock was/really still isn’t there as we went through the whole shouldering not shoulder thing.

quote:

Originally posted by Black92LX:

quote:

Originally posted by benny6:
I just got an e-mail from my supplier that I can now order silencers, SBR's, etc... without a SOT! I can now buy at dealer cost!!

ATF Guidance on NFA Product Transfers

We are pleased to announce that following guidance issued by ATF, RSR Group will begin processing orders immediately for NFA products without requiring registration and ATF approval prior to shipment to states where registration is not required, and there are no additional restrictions.

For states that have independent NFA registration requirements, RSR will continue to submit requests to ATF for approval, and orders will ship as soon as the Form 3 approval is received.

If you have any questions regarding how these changes may impact your purchases, please contact your service professional.

We appreciate your business!

THE ATF’s GUIDANCE LETTER SAYS OTHERWISE.

quote:

Under the guidance, licensed dealers must still complete Form 4473s, run NICS background checks, keep records, and follow all other Gun Control Act requirements. Those engaged in the business are required to pay any special occupational tax.

Maybe I misunderstood their letter. Perhaps I still need a SOT to purchase them but there’s less paperwork now because it’s not really a restricted item. I’m wondering if I should just get the SOT and then bring in the silencers into my inventory and then dispose of them on a 4473.

quote:

Originally posted by Black92LX:
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
This is how the brace business started.

But, I would argue FRTs are different as machine guns are clearly defined in mechanical terms and not just rate of fire.
FRTs do not mechanically function as a machine gun.

Why do you say FRTs can’t be on a pistol?? I have not heard that and again there is nothing illegal about an FRT and how it functions. Why can’t it be on a pistol?

Do all trigger manufacturers have to seek ATF approval?

The brace was slightly different as the clear definition of a stock was/really still isn’t there as we went through the whole shouldering not shoulder thing.

I watched a interview with Cekada from ~month ago, and he said-paraphrased "not every FRT is legit" and he invited companies to submit samples for testing.

As far as pistol FRTs, I don't recall an explicit classification of them as illegal. The only thing close I know of is Rare Greed's settlement prohibited them from making them for pistols, and that may be taken as effectively banned. But maybe someone knows more about it.

quote:

Orginally posted by benny6:
Maybe I misunderstood their letter.

Think you did, Tony. Your supplier's letter says nothing about not having to pay the SOT.

quote:

Originally posted by benny6:

quote:

Originally posted by Black92LX:

quote:

Originally posted by benny6:
I just got an e-mail from my supplier that I can now order silencers, SBR's, etc... without a SOT! I can now buy at dealer cost!!

ATF Guidance on NFA Product Transfers

We are pleased to announce that following guidance issued by ATF, RSR Group will begin processing orders immediately for NFA products without requiring registration and ATF approval prior to shipment to states where registration is not required, and there are no additional restrictions.

For states that have independent NFA registration requirements, RSR will continue to submit requests to ATF for approval, and orders will ship as soon as the Form 3 approval is received.

If you have any questions regarding how these changes may impact your purchases, please contact your service professional.

We appreciate your business!

THE ATF’s GUIDANCE LETTER SAYS OTHERWISE.

quote:

Under the guidance, licensed dealers must still complete Form 4473s, run NICS background checks, keep records, and follow all other Gun Control Act requirements. Those engaged in the business are required to pay any special occupational tax.

Maybe I misunderstood their letter. Perhaps I still need a SOT to purchase them but there’s less paperwork now because it’s not really a restricted item. I’m wondering if I should just get the SOT and then bring in the silencers into my inventory and then dispose of them on a 4473.

Yep, the SOT is required. I am debating on getting one.

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/u...fa-transfer-guidance

“ May a non-SOT FFL engage in the business of selling short-barreled rifles, short-barreled shotguns, silencers, or any other weapons?
Those who are engaged in the business of manufacturing NFA items have additional requirements that the district court did not enjoin. Although Congress eliminated the making and transfer taxes for most NFA firearms, Congress did not eliminate the taxes for those engaged in the business of manufacturing, importing, or dealing in these firearms. 26 U.S.C. § 5801. Thus, those engaged in the business of manufacturing, importing, or dealing must pay special (occupational) taxes for each business activity that they conduct.”

quote:

Originally posted by Opus Dei:

quote:

Originally posted by Black92LX:
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
This is how the brace business started.

But, I would argue FRTs are different as machine guns are clearly defined in mechanical terms and not just rate of fire.
FRTs do not mechanically function as a machine gun.

Why do you say FRTs can’t be on a pistol?? I have not heard that and again there is nothing illegal about an FRT and how it functions. Why can’t it be on a pistol?

Do all trigger manufacturers have to seek ATF approval?

The brace was slightly different as the clear definition of a stock was/really still isn’t there as we went through the whole shouldering not shoulder thing.

I watched a interview with Cekada from ~month ago, and he said-paraphrased "not every FRT is legit" and he invited companies to submit samples for testing.

As far as pistol FRTs, I don't recall an explicit classification of them as illegal. The only thing close I know of is Rare Greed's settlement prohibited them from making them for pistols, and that may be taken as effectively banned. But maybe someone knows more about it.

Rare Breed agreed to not make them for handguns, I would have to dig through the legal mumbo jumbo to find how that was worded. Maybe I am wrong in assuming they cannot be on handguns.
https://attorneysonretainer.us...-breed-v-atf-update/

This sheds a little light on the handgun issue.

https://www.congress.gov/crs_e...N12582/IN12582.1.pdf

The settlement between the U.S. government and Rare Breed Triggers and other claimants includes an
agreement whereby Rare Breed Triggers will not produce or market FRTs for “any handgun” where the
“magazine loads into the trigger-hand grip.
” Additionally, the hammer must “be released from its sear
surface for every round fired” and “the trigger in an FRT-equipped firearm must reset after every round
fired” to be covered by the agreement. Nonetheless, Rare Breed Triggers can sell FRTs for a variety of
semiautomatic pistols where the magazine is inserted ahead of the grip, including AR- and AK-style
pistols, TEC-9s, and others. The settlement agreement also does not preclude the United States from
initiating an enforcement action against other FRT manufacturers, nor does it resolve other potential
enforcement actions state regulators have taken or may take in the future.

So am I to assume that in FL, I can now install a rifle buttstock onto my AR pistol and make a legal SBR for my own use, that I already own, without any NFA paperwork now?

I can also now buy 14.5" AR uppers and convert my personal rifle (not to be sold) into a proper M4?

Tony.

I got my SOT so I'd always be covered for building anything and buying non-transferable MGs. I can't live long enough to keep renewing my SOT and pay as much as a transferable MP5 costs. I have a full auto SIG M400 coming next week, paid $639. I make some money selling NFA stuff and enjoy the perks of having an SOT.

quote:

Originally posted by benny6:
So am I to assume that in FL, I can now install a rifle buttstock onto my AR pistol and make a legal SBR for my own use, that I already own, without any NFA paperwork now?

I can also now buy 14.5" AR uppers and convert my personal rifle (not to be sold) into a proper M4?

Tony.

At this point in time, I think people only need to worry about their state laws with regard to this stuff. Some states require NFA stuff to be "in compliance with federal law." And this whole ATF thing is not written in law. It's a decision by DOJ and a federal court. That can change with the next America-hating commie administration.

quote:

Originally posted by benny6:
So am I to assume that in FL, I can now install a rifle buttstock onto my AR pistol and make a legal SBR for my own use, that I already own, without any NFA paperwork now?

I can also now buy 14.5" AR uppers and convert my personal rifle (not to be sold) into a proper M4?

Tony.

That's the way it reads to me and exactly what I did and will be doing.

quote:

Originally posted by benny6:
So am I to assume that in FL, I can now install a rifle buttstock onto my AR pistol and make a legal SBR for my own use, that I already own, without any NFA paperwork now?

I can also now buy 14.5" AR uppers and convert my personal rifle (not to be sold) into a proper M4?

Tony.

Yep, now if you go to sell one through your business then all the NFA stuff is required.

I still want to know how Form 3s are going to work. Unless my distributors stop doing them, those items will still show in my eForms inventory and they don't move from there without a Form 4 approval. So just doing a 4473 does not remove them from my eForms inventory and I don't want to have to account for those items at inspection time when I disposed them via 4473s long ago. ATF may have a temporary forgiveness or amnesty time frame for SOTs on that stuff, but it can change at any time.

I'd think that as long as you still have the 4473, it should reconcile the Form 3 with the "missing" item. So it seems logical that a (new) process would be forthcoming that allows you to use the 4473 to clear the item from your inventory. But then, what seems logical to me is seldom what the government thinks makes sense.

quote:

Originally posted by Rick Lee:
I still want to know how Form 3s are going to work. Unless my distributors stop doing them, those items will still show in my eForms inventory and they don't move from there without a Form 4 approval. So just doing a 4473 does not remove them from my eForms inventory and I don't want to have to account for those items at inspection time when I disposed them via 4473s long ago. ATF may have a temporary forgiveness or amnesty time frame for SOTs on that stuff, but it can change at any time.

See here: https://www.atf.gov/firearms/u...fa-transfer-guidance
My business transferred an NFA item on a Form 4473. How can I remove it from my NFA inventory?
To remove an item, please write the NFA Division at NFAFAX@atf.gov


FYI RSR group already sent out an e-mail stating “ We are pleased to announce that following guidance issued by ATF, RSR Group will begin processing orders immediately for NFA products without requiring registration and ATF approval prior to shipment to states where registration is not required, and there are no additional restrictions.”.