The illegal aliens part bothers me, as does the tax burden. The rest isn't my business, or yours.

I won't tell you what to do with your body if you don't tell me what to do with my money.

quote:

Originally posted by 46and2:
The illegal aliens part bothers me, as does the tax burden. The rest isn't my business, or yours.

It certainly is if the public is paying for it.

The State has no business in the sanctioned death of an unborn child.

You did see where I said I had a problem with the Taxes (and Illegal Aliens) part, right, and then said "the rest"...?

I'd rather this, than have to pay for the kids for 18 years (or more, depending on whether or not they decide to enroll in the state's fine penitentiary system). Of course I'd rather the child not be created in the first place, but beggars can't be choosers. While we're at it, why not offer up free sterilizations? If we gotta spend the money, might as well spend it on things that work.

Now pass that popcorn.

quote:

Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:

quote:

Originally posted by 46and2:
The illegal aliens part bothers me, as does the tax burden. The rest isn't my business, or yours.

It certainly is if the public is paying for it.
The State has no business in the sanctioned death of an unborn child.

I certainly agree with Balzé Halzé here... and if I were in Oregon I would vote accordingly.

But just to be consistent with my views on federalism, I would let Oregon be Oregon.
This issue should be decided by the voters in the several states, not by the Supreme Court or even the Congress.
It's a state issue, as is crime. We have centralized and nationalized far too much.

Of course part of that is the funding... I completely oppose any federal funding of abortion or planned parenthood.

Once upon a time, we had relative peace in this country on this issue, but that was before the 1973 Supreme Court decision taking the power away from the States. Not all states have to be the same. Illinois sanctioned abortion, Missouri did not. You don't like it? Move or vote to change it. Or... drive across the river to have your damn abortion. Just don't make me pay for it!

Unfortunately this wasn't put before the people for a vote.

There is a petition to get this policy/law/funding debacle reversed and undone by putting it before the people for a vote.

The question then lies in whether there are enough who will vote to repeal this in the state as the politics of the I-5 Corridor are much different than rural Oregon.

quote:

Originally posted by radioman:
I should not have to pay for anyone's abortion. This point should not be up for debate regardless of how one feels about the issue.

.....

X 1,000,000,000,000,000,001

Wasn't Oregon the 'poster child' for how NOT to set-up & run a state sponsored health insurance program? I believe to the tune of $305 MILLION, wasn't it!

'Cover Oregon'....The first out of the gate health care disaster for ObamaCare!

ETA - Reference to the significant tax payer dollars wasted in that debacle!

quote:

Originally posted by nhracecraft:
Wasn't Oregon the 'poster child' for how NOT to set-up & run a state sponsored health insurance program?
'Cover Oregon'....The first out of the gate health care disaster for ObamaCare!

Yes... exactly.
Let the stupid people run states, not the entire country. You want socialized medicine? Go to Oregon, or Massachusetts. Just don't impose it on the rest of us. And don't make the rest of us pay for your stupidity. It's called federalism. If we get back to it people will vote with their feet, moving to successful states and abandoning failed states. Just don't nationalize everything so we have no where to go.

quote:

Originally posted by airsoft guy:
I'd rather this, than have to pay for the kids for 18 years (or more, depending on whether or not they decide to enroll in the state's fine penitentiary system). Of course I'd rather the child not be created in the first place, but beggars can't be choosers. While we're at it, why not offer up free sterilizations? If we gotta spend the money, might as well spend it on things that work.

Now pass that popcorn.

This is the right idea. More abortions so we have less future criminals and more sterilization so we can save the cost of future abortions.

quote:

Originally posted by PossibleZombie:

quote:

Originally posted by airsoft guy:
I'd rather this, than have to pay for the kids for 18 years (or more, depending on whether or not they decide to enroll in the state's fine penitentiary system). Of course I'd rather the child not be created in the first place, but beggars can't be choosers. While we're at it, why not offer up free sterilizations? If we gotta spend the money, might as well spend it on things that work.

Now pass that popcorn.

This is the right idea. More abortions so we have less future criminals and more sterilization so we can save the cost of future abortions.

Margaret Sanger approves of this post.

quote:

Originally posted by chellim1: If we get back to it people will vote with their feet, moving to successful states and abandoning failed states. Just don't nationalize everything so we have no where to go.

Unfortunately, almost every state has an urban core that votes for liberal policies. With a few exceptions, the margins aren't THAT huge in states that are depicted as red or blue.

quote:

Unfortunately, almost every state has an urban core that votes for liberal policies.

We are going to have to find a way to get rid of the rotten urban core in most major cities.
I'm not sure how... I don't think education is going to work. Socialized education has become part of the problem, not the solution.

quote:

Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:

The State has no business in the sanctioned death of an unborn child.

You realize that whether a fetus is already a child is the issue, right? Some, like you, think abortion is murder and others do not.

I note this not to argue the point with you. Let me say it again, I won't argue that point with you, or anyone else.

But that is the conclusion that is being debated every time abortion comes up. Abortion opponents say that is is a child as if that settles the question. But it doesn't - that IS the question. Claiming that a fetus is a human being begs the question, in the actual sense of that phrase. That is a argumentative and logical fallacy. You are using the conclusion to prove your thesis.

Here is an example: All crows are black because crows are black birds.

quote:

Originally posted by chellim1:

quote:

Unfortunately, almost every state has an urban core that votes for liberal policies.

We are going to have to find a way to get rid of the rotten urban core in most major cities.
I'm not sure how... I don't think education is going to work. Socialized education has become part of the problem, not the solution.

Oregon is working on it.

See Balzé Halzé's comment a few posts up.

quote:

Originally posted by PossibleZombie:

quote:

Originally posted by airsoft guy:
I'd rather this, than have to pay for the kids for 18 years (or more, depending on whether or not they decide to enroll in the state's fine penitentiary system). Of course I'd rather the child not be created in the first place, but beggars can't be choosers. While we're at it, why not offer up free sterilizations? If we gotta spend the money, might as well spend it on things that work.

Now pass that popcorn.

This is the right idea. More abortions so we have less future criminals and more sterilization so we can save the cost of future abortions.

So we end up with forced abortions and forced sterilizations of all those the all-powerful gov't may deem to be undesirable. I wonder which of us would be put in the line if someone like Hillary, Obama, de Blasio, were in charge.

quote:

Originally posted by chellim1:

But just to be consistent with my views on federalism, I would let Oregon be Oregon.
This issue should be decided by the voters in the several states, not by the Supreme Court or even the Congress.
It's a state issue, as is crime. We have centralized and nationalized far too much.

Three cheers for Chellim1.

I am on the other side of the abortion debate, but I am totally on your side that abortion is a state matter. There is NOTHING in the constitution that addresses abortion one way or the other. Abortion rights activists manufactured that constitutional protection out of whole cloth (penumbras and emanations), but finding that the constitution prohibits abortion would be equally shady and dishonest. It is an issue for the states.

We conservatives should be even more respectful of the federal system we have than lefties are. Let most things to the states. We should not be advocating for federal control when it suits us, but arguing against it when the results don't make us happy.

In my world, abortion would be legal in Oregon, and illegal in Texas. And politically and under our system, that is the way it should be.

As posted several times in the past I'm not for killing Babies yet born or those free of the womb..... But letting mom or pop of unwanted kids be made sterile ? Yep I'd gladly help with my tax dollars

quote:

Originally posted by Scoutmaster:

quote:

Originally posted by PossibleZombie:

quote:

Originally posted by airsoft guy:
I'd rather this, than have to pay for the kids for 18 years (or more, depending on whether or not they decide to enroll in the state's fine penitentiary system). Of course I'd rather the child not be created in the first place, but beggars can't be choosers. While we're at it, why not offer up free sterilizations? If we gotta spend the money, might as well spend it on things that work.

Now pass that popcorn.

This is the right idea. More abortions so we have less future criminals and more sterilization so we can save the cost of future abortions.

So we end up with forced abortions and forced sterilizations of all those the all-powerful gov't may deem to be undesirable. I wonder which of us would be put in the line if someone like Hillary, Obama, de Blasio, were in charge.

Airsoftguy did say "offer up free sterilizations" not force people to be sterilized, and he is only for offering free abortions, not forcing them on people. I read PossibleZombie to be saying the same thing.

Don't make a straw man. They never suggested forced anything.