quote:

Originally posted by SgtGold:
The dual PT test is already in effect due to SOCOM....

Yes, AFSOC was the same, but it's been a minute. (that's like 45 years ago in dog time)

But it's an outline, and should spread as required across the board and up and down the ladder.

As for Medic and Chaplains, the point is they, as anyone else, may find themselves facing a serious hostile threat, and should their "Conscientious" status bring them to the point that, God forbid, they may be the only person able to defend patients or other incapacitated troops, I want them to be capable to defend them, should they realize in that moment it is prudent and their choice to do so. (the Red Cross in the ID card is not body armor)

But I would never denigrate anyone in those occupations to choose to not bear arms as a matter of their faith or creed.

As some have found themselves in a moment, trained and intending to fight, and facing that reality having a change of heart. They still can prove most useful in battle, runner, moving ammo to troops, etc.

quote:

Originally posted by sigmonkey:
But I would never denigrate anyone in those occupations to choose to not bear arms as a matter of their faith or creed.

Not sure about chaplains, but medics carry weapons.

quote:

Originally posted by Gustofer:

quote:

Originally posted by sigmonkey:
But I would never denigrate anyone in those occupations to choose to not bear arms as a matter of their faith or creed.

Not sure about chaplains, but medics carry weapons.

And Fleet Marine Force Navy Corpsmen have had the infantry standard forever/.

Corpsmen rock, by the way.

quote:

Originally posted by ftttu:
>big snippage<
I don’t personally care what your sex is, if there is a standard for practical reasons, they should be met by all. A firefighter who has to go into a burning multistory building and finds an incapacitated adult male(or similar large/heavy person), while wearing full gear, should be able to fireman carry that person out to safety. If the lesser males/females who can’t perform at a level as the one who do get promoted as fast or faster than those who do, we get the mess we’re in today. THANKS PETE!

And ^^THAT** is my major bitch is about dual standards.
(Fireman carry has gone by the wayside vs dragging folks out)

We had some for real no shit, WORLD CLASS, OLYMPIC ATHLETES in some of the women trying out for the fire service. They had quality athletic skills at 20 to almost 30 some years of age.
Then they got older, fatter, got injured and sucked on the industrial claim teat for the rest of their time on the job. (some for 20 yrs)
They got “promotions” while pushing pencils and some retired as Captains. All the while not doing a damn thing that would qualify someone as a Captain working out in the field as a REAL Captain leading FF’s in real situations.
It was by far the most disgusting thing I’ve ever seen in my time as a FF/Paramedic.
If there are Standards, they need to be met.
If you can’t maintain those standards, 7-11 is always taking applications.

The terms “combat arms” are what they are, and should not be diluted. If you can’t hack it in those positions, transfer to a non-combat MOS and spend your time there if you have the smarts to qualify.

I’m reminded in times like these of drones whose only requirement was showing up…then The Battle of The Bulge broke out and those REMF’s had to pick up a weapon and defend themselves. If you couldn’t, sucks to be you.
(Full disclosure, my Dad was an Army cook in WWII. He had encounters with Japs in the Pacific theater and did what he had to do)
He knew damn well that fighting Japs was the main goal and cooking was secondary to survival!
Glad he took it seriously because I wouldn’t exist if he hadn’t.

The Army has an MOS for that. 56M, religious affairs specialist. They are armed just like any other Soldier.

quote:

Originally posted by Gustofer:
Not sure about chaplains, but medics carry weapons.

I know everyone is typically armed but was referring to actual Conscientious Objectors on the field. [/drift]

One interesting aspect of this whole thing that I’ve never really considered before which is starting to pop up online here and there in discussions, is that everything that Hegseth is wanting to do is very Army-centric and that’s his frame of reference.

I’m not sure how he expects Navy units out on ships to be doing daily unit PT or Air Force units that are 24/7 operations. The Army tends to be this Borg Collective that does everything as one collective on a duty day that is set hours. Not saying what he’s doing is wrong just pointing out that his perspective is only of one service.

I think one problem is this "combat arms vs everyone else". An infantry battalion is not composed of just 11 series. Having a PFT based on MOS would be kinda problematic if it's being done by units, even at the company level. I recall a brief period where they were trying to apply the ACFT by position and rank (guess what, arty and MP officers O4 and above didn't have to meet the standards of like E6s). Mind you, this was the Guard, so YMMV.

A better solution (IMHO) would be a test that doesn't use a metric ton of special gear, that has one scoring table (no brackets for age or sex) with a broader range. Minimum score to be a Soldier and minimum scores to qualify as SF/Ranger/etc.

quote:

Originally posted by cyberiad:
A schoolboy giving a stupid lecture to officers with collectively thousands of more years experience than he has. What a moron. This guy is a total non-entity.

I seriously doubt America's most successful businessman would select an under qualified candidate for such an important role. I am going to go out on a limb and say Trump had thousands of options to choose from and in line with his administration's push to end DEI and only focus on merit he found Hegseth to be the best candidate for the job. Combine a noteworthy military record with a journalism career at Fox News and you end up with the best choice.

Newsflash:

The lecture wasn't really for the Flag Officers.

quote:

Originally posted by FenderBender:

quote:

Originally posted by fischtown7:
tell me after a promotion board that everyone deserved a chance.

My flat reply to this has always been and always will be, "No, they don't."

I’d probably agree with where you’re going, but phrase it differently. I would think that everyone who met standards deserves a chance to try, and that all decisions should be made objectively on qualifications, performance, evaluation results, with a blind eye to race or gender. If GI Jane is objectively the most qualified in a gender and race blind evaluation, she should get the job. On the other hand, she should be measured against the same standards as the guys, and if she doesn’t cut it relative to those standards, she’s treated exactly the same as a guy who can’t hack the standard. As far as race, it should be irrelevant. I always reply “decline to state” on race questions and when a census person tried to push I told her the question offended me deeply and that if we’re trying to do a better job of treating all races equally we should ignore race because it really is irrelevant. I don’t care what race anybody is, I care if they are an honest, productive member of society. Those come in all shapes, sizes, and colors (and both genders).

quote:

Originally posted by AllenInAR:

A better solution (IMHO) would be a test that doesn't use a metric ton of special gear, that has one scoring table (no brackets for age or sex) with a broader range. Minimum score to be a Soldier and minimum scores to qualify as SF/Ranger/etc.

Way back 50+ years ago in Boy Scouts we did the President's Physical Fitness test every year. Pushups, sit ups, pull ups, throwing a ball, sprinting, and distance running. The only equipment needed was the ball and a chin-up bar. Surely smart people can come up with similar tests applicable to the requirements of war-fighting.

quote:

Originally posted by Graniteguy:
Newsflash:

The lecture wasn't really for the Flag Officers.

And we have a winner, ladies and gentlemen.

Liberal heads across the land simultaneously exploded this weekend when Secretary of War Pete Hegseth told Navy seamen where their strength lies.


https://x.com/america/status/1975178424236093573



I have always loathed that STUPID catchphrase because it simply makes no sense.