quote:

Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:

quote:

Originally posted by Skins2881:

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That website is a giant hot mess and a pain to cut and paste, but here's the meat of it.

Yes it is...

So what was the reason for the suspension? Was he promoting hatred by posting the words of another as it relates to reporting on his article, or was he promoting hatred by painting Islam in a bad light?

I think he tweeted the manifesto or parts of it which Twitter subsequently removed. Pete then posted a screenshot of the deleted tweet I think which got him banned.

ETA:
He wrote on Instagram Sunday: 'I was BANNED from @twitter — because I posted a screen shot of the terrorist from Florida tweeting his Islamist motivations.

So it was neither posting Islamic hatred or hatred of Islamic people, but for defying Twitter's overlords directive to remove it?

My bet was that Twitter's beef was they weren't happy with him pointing out religious motivations of the shooter.

Either way silencing of journalists is pretty scary. Post something Twitter doesn't like and you are silenced. Same with FB and YouTube.

We had a Pakistani cadet at the Air Force Academy in the early '90's that HATED America, and he wasn't shy about it. I have absolutely zero doubt that he was cheering on 9/11.

All the gate guards had their M9's and M4's this morning. I was surprised they weren't doing vehicle searches.

I know that Base security here does anti-terrorist training from time to time in empty buildings.

I hope its enough.

As far as Sailors being armed at Navy Squadrons. The only time I remember being issued a side arm in CONUS was when we were transporting Automatic weapons between installations or going to the range for weapons quals.

DOD has released guidance on people carrying on post.

Promising but I cannot see many O-5s saying yes to people carrying....even if it for 90 days at a time.

This came out before last week's shooting.

https://www.military.com/daily...y-firearms-base.html

quote:

Originally posted by dewhorse:
DOD has released guidance on people carrying on post.

Promising but I cannot see many O-5s saying yes to people carrying....even if it for 90 days at a time.

This came out before last week's shooting.

https://www.military.com/daily...y-firearms-base.html

Agreed - most military people are not 'gun people', especially in the Navy and Air Force.Even while at the range qualifying with our M11s, I kept a wary eye on plenty of our aircrew. Even more so when checking them out pistols and ammo before going in country.

Some guys / gals obviously had only very minimal training, typically consisting of the 1 hr brief from the MAs before we went to the range - but even that was a joke because they briefed us on the pistol they knew and carried (M9 Berettas) while we carried M11 SIGs.

You could almost hear the circus music playing in the background...

I know it would probably come down to the budget, but why aren't there MP units at each base and post? I mean, it has MILITARY and POLICE right there in the acronym, for god's sake!! I know, I know...logic and "outside the box" thinking will NOT be tolerated here. JSMH...

quote:

Originally posted by RHINOWSO:

Agreed - most military people are not 'gun people', especially in the Navy and Air Force.Even while at the range qualifying with our M11s, I kept a wary eye on plenty of our aircrew. Even more so when checking them out pistols and ammo before going in country.

Some guys / gals obviously had only very minimal training, typically consisting of the 1 hr brief from the MAs before we went to the range - but even that was a joke because they briefed us on the pistol they knew and carried (M9 Berettas) while we carried M11 SIGs.

You could almost hear the circus music playing in the background...

Yeah,
I was deployed on a Spruance class and they used the flight deck to do watch standing quals with the M9. After it was done I notice they had bounced a bunch of rounds halfway across the deck as well as shooting a few of the deck edge lights Pretty scary

quote:

Originally posted by erj_pilot:
I know it would probably come down to the budget, but why aren't there MP units at each base and post? I mean, it has MILITARY and POLICE right there in the acronym, for god's sake!! I know, I know...logic and "outside the box" thinking will NOT be tolerated here. JSMH...

The Navy doesn't call them MP's. The Navy has MA's (Master at Arms) assigned to each base but most of the people on the gate are ASF (Auxiliary Security Force) ASF are just Sailors from the tenet commands who are standing Duty at the Gate, they receive some training but they're not as well trained as a regular MA

quote:

Originally posted by dewhorse:
DOD has released guidance on people carrying on post.

Promising but I cannot see many O-5s saying yes to people carrying....even if it for 90 days at a time.

This came out before last week's shooting.

https://www.military.com/daily...y-firearms-base.html

This is a start, it's from 2017:

https://www.omaha.com/news/mil...ea-3365656a17cc.html

Military law enforcement personnel can now carry their own guns onto Offutt Air Force base

By Steve Liewer / / World-Herald staff writer Feb 6, 2017

Certain current and former military law enforcement personnel now may carry their personal firearms onto Offutt Air Force Base under a new 55th Wing policy.

The rule took effect Jan. 11 after nearly a year of planning and consideration and was not tied to any specific security threat against the base, said Lt. Col. Ian Dinesen, commander of the 55th Security Forces Squadron.

“We wanted to make sure it was very well-thought-out,” Dinesen said.

The new rules are allowed because of the 2014 expansion of a then-10-year-old federal law, the Law Enforcement Officers Safety Act, to allow military police with special permits to carry concealed weapons.

A post on Offutt’s Facebook page said the purpose was “to enhance existing force protection measures and potentially mitigate active-shooter or workplace violence events.”

In recent years, military posts have been the site of several mass shootings, including a 2009 terrorist attack by Nidal Hasan, an Army psychiatrist, at Fort Hood, Texas, that killed 13 soldiers and wounded more than 30; a spree at the Washington Navy Yard in 2013 in which a gunman killed 12 people and wounded four; and a second Fort Hood shooting in 2014 in which a distraught soldier killed three and wounded 16.

It may be counterintuitive to civilians, but military bases — including Offutt — have strict rules against carrying weapons. Only on-duty security officers may bring them on base. No one, not even someone with a concealed-carry permit, is allowed to bring personal weapons onto base, Dinesen said, except to carry them to and from an on-base residence, or to a firing range. In those cases, they must be carried unloaded, inside a locked case.

The federal law originally was passed in 2004, in the wake of the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, to create a sort of auxiliary force of highly trained weapons specialists who could respond quickly in such emergencies, said James Baranowski, manager of external and international affairs for the National Rifle Association.

The law, widely known by the acronym LEOSA, allows qualifying law enforcement officers to carry permitted weapons across state and other jurisdictional lines.

It created a sort of back-door form of “reciprocity,” an NRA-backed concept that allows holders of concealed-carry permits in one state to legally carry their weapons in every state.

“It’s certainly helped a lot of law enforcement officers, especially in states that are more restrictive of civilian carriers,” Baranowski said.

But the law was poorly drafted, he said. Some language in the law appeared to exclude military security officers.

Congress amended the law in 2010 and again in 2014, the latter time specifically allowing military police and law enforcement officers to qualify to receive the special LEOSA identification cards.

Since then, the Army and Air Force have issued guidelines to allow their current and former security officers to qualify for the ID cards. The Navy, which also has administrative authority over the Marine Corps, has not.

Just over a year ago, the Air Force also gave base commanders authority to allow military LEOSA cardholders to carry their weapons onto bases. Baranowski said he thinks Offutt is among the first bases to do so.

The cards still aren’t easy to get. Only airmen or veterans with more than 10 years of experience as military security officers may qualify. They must go through stringent recertification training each year and pay a fee of up to several hundred dollars a year.

“You’re talking about people with quite a bit of service under their belt, even to be considered,” Dinesen said.

Cardholders also must secure their weapons and declare them at the gate before their vehicle is screened.

Even with the rules change, many major buildings and offices at Offutt will remain off-limits.

“I can’t carry it right now, sitting in my office as the squadron commander,” said Dinesen, who has one of the permits.

Nationwide, about 1,180 current and former Air Force security officers have qualified for LEOSA permits. Another 200 have applied and are waiting for certification.

Dinesen said about two dozen have filed permits with his security office.

“There’s really not a whole lot of people carrying,” Baranowski said.

steve.liewer@owh.com, 402-444-1186

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Originally posted by navyshooter:

quote:

Originally posted by erj_pilot:
I know it would probably come down to the budget, but why aren't there MP units at each base and post? I mean, it has MILITARY and POLICE right there in the acronym, for god's sake!! I know, I know...logic and "outside the box" thinking will NOT be tolerated here. JSMH...

The Navy doesn't call them MP's. The Navy has MA's (Master at Arms) assigned to each base but most of the people on the gate are ASF (Auxiliary Security Force) ASF are just Sailors from the tenet commands who are standing Duty at the Gate, they receive some training but they're not as well trained as a regular MA

Yeah and a good number of the ASFs are generally 'unwanted' by their parent command, so they aren't always the cream of the crop. Not troublemakers but usually not thriving in their command and most are looking to do something different. Great idea to give sailors with minimal security training weapons and power. Usually why they are just standing around when something actually happens, because they have zero idea of what to do until told by a real MA - assuming the MA knows what to do.

Solid nickname.

Sorry but you guys are wrong on how Navy Law Enforcement works. Yes there are MA's they are mainly, MPI(detectives) Senior command Staff and k9 handler's, the rest are all trained as police officer with NEC 9545(Law Enforcement Specialist) with 8 weeks of training at Lackland AFB. ASF (Auxiliary Security Forces) generally are from tenant commands and have a mini academy and annual refresher training on weapons, handcuffing, and patrol procedures. I know because I have been in both positions. I was on ASF at Port Hueneme, Ca Seabee base and I was a 9545 patrol officer/supervisor at NAS JRB Belle Chase (New Orleans). I'm sure now a lot of bases have Dept of the Navy/DOD Civilian Police Officers as well.

James

quote:

Originally posted by feersum dreadnaught:
Midshipman OOW carried their swords. All my shore stations, the OOW was unarmed. In-port OOD on the USS IOWA was unarmed. Petty Officer of the Watch had a .45 with a full mag, none in the chamber and 2 more on the belt. We also had a roaming Marine in full gear with M-16, and could turn out an impressive security alert team in minutes.

Overseas port calls, we added Marines with M-60s up on the O-5 level overlooking the fore and aft ladders.

So yes, CONUS Navy is a sitting duck.

I was that guy on the Iowa and with a 1911. Sometimes we had a
Marine up on the mast with a rifle.

News story today. The Navy has suspended flight training (now limited to classroom instruction) for over 800 Saudis at Pensacola. Eight humored! I have no idea if the USAF is also training Saudi pilots.

The Pensacola shooting made me think of prisoner Nidal Hasan, currently sentenced to death in Leavenworth. He is reportedly paralyzed from the waist down as a result of the actions of either Army Civilian Police Sergeant Kimberly Munley and Sergeant Mark Todd.

Hasan, as you will recall, was NOT charged with terrorism. He was charged with 13 counts of murder and wounding more than 30. He’s on death row, but the Army is not likely to execute him.

quote:

Originally posted by Tommydogg:

quote:

Originally posted by feersum dreadnaught:
Midshipman OOW carried their swords. All my shore stations, the OOW was unarmed. In-port OOD on the USS IOWA was unarmed. Petty Officer of the Watch had a .45 with a full mag, none in the chamber and 2 more on the belt. We also had a roaming Marine in full gear with M-16, and could turn out an impressive security alert team in minutes.

Overseas port calls, we added Marines with M-60s up on the O-5 level overlooking the fore and aft ladders.

So yes, CONUS Navy is a sitting duck.

I was that guy on the Iowa and with a 1911. Sometimes we had a
Marine up on the mast with a rifle.

I was that ENS or LTJG. Also an FZ keyholder, and opened the armory on security alerts...

quote:

Originally posted by depusm12:
Sorry but you guys are wrong on how Navy Law Enforcement works. Yes there are MA's they are mainly, MPI(detectives) Senior command Staff and k9 handler's, the rest are all trained as police officer with NEC 9545(Law Enforcement Specialist) with 8 weeks of training at Lackland AFB. ASF (Auxiliary Security Forces) generally are from tenant commands and have a mini academy and annual refresher training on weapons, handcuffing, and patrol procedures. I know because I have been in both positions. I was on ASF at Port Hueneme, Ca Seabee base and I was a 9545 patrol officer/supervisor at NAS JRB Belle Chase (New Orleans). I'm sure now a lot of bases have Dept of the Navy/DOD Civilian Police Officers as well.

James

Oh we know. We just don't think very highly of DoD and Navy Police. Neither do the aircrew on NAS Pensacola.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/nas...ructor-pilots-arm-us

NAS Pensacola shooting leads Navy instructor pilots to tell top brass: 'Arm us'


EXCLUSIVE -- A group of U.S. Navy instructor pilots asked top military brass for permission to arm themselves in the wake of the shooting at Naval Air Station Pensacola, Fla., where a Saudi military pilot gunned down three American sailors and wounded eight others.

One of the shooting victims was the captain of the U.S. Naval Academy rifle team, an “excellent marksman,” according to his brother.

“It’s so stupid that on a military base, the shooter was allowed to roam free for so long,” according to one instructor pilot. “In a gun fight, that’s an eternity.” The pilot, like others interviewed by Fox News, did not want his name used because he was not authorized to speak with the media.

One of the pilots said Navy brass denied their request to arm themselves on base.

Two pilots said the Saudi shooter had 10 minutes to carry out his deadly assault on defenseless Navy sailors at the “API” -- aviation pre-flight indoctrination -- building. The Naval Aviation Safety school is also located in the building.

The instructor pilots said the incentive to arm was obvious. “We need to protect not just the pilots, but our aircraft that are worth millions.”

One pilot called base security at NAS Pensacola and other Navy bases “mall cops,” because protection on the base has been outsourced to private security and many were “fat and out of shape.”

“I have zero confidence the guy I show my ID card to at the gate could save me,” one pilot added. Fox News spoke to three Navy instructor pilots Tuesday.

It’s an opinion shared by many across the military, including the U.S. Army; more than a dozen soldiers and an unborn child were gunned down at Fort Hood in 2009.

“We trust 18-year-old privates in combat with grenades, anti-tank missiles, rifles and machine guns, but we let service members get slaughtered because we don’t trust anyone to be armed back here in the United States,” a senior U.S. Army officer told Fox News.

“Why are we cowering in our offices, it’s insane,” the officer added.

The first responders to the shooting at the military base were cops off base, not members of the military, which the instructor pilots found insulting.

The gunman, Saudi Arabian Air Force 2nd Lt. Mohammed Saeed Alshamrani, was shot and killed by a deputy from the Escambia County Sheriff's Office.

The U.S. Marine Corps for years has provided armed Marines known as “Guardian Angels” to watch over training at The Basic School for newly minted Marine officers in Quantico, Va., outside the nation’s capital. The Guardian Angels have watched over the young officers during live-fire training and were ready to respond. Some service members asked for a similar program for the Navy, even for flight school.

“Our message is simple: arm us,” one pilot said. “We don’t want to count on cops or gate guards to save us in a crisis.”

There was no immediate comment from the U.S. Navy about reversing the policy when Fox News asked.

The Saudi pilot was training to be a naval flight officer, a “backseater” in military jargon, not a pilot, one of the instructor pilots told Fox News.

The family of one of the three victims, Ensign Joshua Kaleb Watson, 23, who had graduated from the U.S. Naval Academy this past May, urged lawmakers and military officers to allow service members to protect themselves on base during an appearance Tuesday morning on “Fox and Friends.”

They need to place a MARDET on the base. Tell them Devil Dogs - "any of youz guyz kill a bad guy, and I'll promote you."

"Any of youz guyz find a bad guy, and I'll give ya a medal"

That'll fix it

Security on Navy bases has been poor for a long time. Way back in the 80's they ran a test called Red Cell.
I was PCSing with a school in between, I had Duty on NTC San Diego the night that Red Cell sank Base Security boat.
A week later I'm checking in to my new command when Red Cell stole an Airplane from the Flying Club and landed it on the Squadron next door tarmac. A group of guys got out and threw "Satchel Charges" under the Helos on the flight line and then ran into the Hangar and took the C.O hostage. They released him after they got a ransom of a pizza and a six pack.
Chaos everywhere.
Oh and Marines were guarding the gate back then.

Was that that Dick Marchinko guy? SEAL, I think.

quote:

Originally posted by AllenInWV:
Was that that Dick Marchinko guy? SEAL, I think.

Yes. I worked with a guy who was on that team; amazing stories of stealing military equipment, simulating sabotage, taking hostages.

Anyone with half a brain can see that military security on normal Navy installations is a joke. It's window dressing, wag the dog type stuff.

Look at one guy did - now imagine a motivated, organized team of 3-10 individuals, operating in concert.

Frightening really.