SIGforum.com    Main Page  Hop To Forum Categories  The Lounge    After Topping Ford, Tesla's Stock Value Overtakes GM
Page 1 2 3 
Go
New
Find
Notify
Tools
Reply
  
After Topping Ford, Tesla's Stock Value Overtakes GM Login/Join 
Member
Picture of lkdr1989
posted Hide Post
Timely article from Breitbart:

Steele: Elon Musk Doesn’t Want Government Subsidies; Let’s Give Him His Wish

quote:
Republicans have found healthcare reform to be a difficult task – and have put replacing Obamacare on the back burner – but the President and the GOP-controlled Congress must demonstrate to the American people that they can turn campaign promises into legislation. What gives me confidence they will meet this challenge is the desire of American voters to overturn many of President Barack Obama’s failed policies and resilient Republican leadership at both ends of Pennsylvania Avenue.

Maybe the best chance Republicans have to enact meaningful legislation is to focus on issues that unite the Party. Since the Reagan Revolution, one area that has consistently united Republicans is a commitment to liberate the American people from the burden of hefty taxation and a desire to allow free markets – not tax policy – to drive the American economy.

While much of the focus on tax reform has been on the corporate side, another problematic area has that has gotten far less attention is the use of tax incentives to support the “green” energy business. In my opinion, there are no worse examples of tax policy then these incentives because they adulterate the free market and often direct massive profits to the wealthy and politically connected.

One tax policy that is ripe for fixing is the Solar Investment Tax Credit (ITC). The ITC currently allows homeowners and businesses to deduct a portion of the cost of installation of solar panels until 2021. In 2015, Congress approved this tax cut in a deal with the Obama White House. What bothers me is that the implementation of the ITC means that Americans who do not choose to put solar panels on their rooftops have to subsidize those that do. Also, it turns out that taxpayers are also subsidizing some of the wealthiest people on the planet.

Consider Elon Musk, the owner of SolarCity – which recently merged into his other company, Tesla – is the largest provider of residential solar panels in the nation. Musk is the 87th richest man in the world and someone worth admiring for his financial successes that have created thousands of jobs. However, I am not supportive of tax policies like the ITC that put more money in the pockets of billionaires.

Another government incentive that Elon Musk benefits from is the Zero Emissions Vehicle (ZEV) tax credit. This policy allows people who purchase electronic/plug in vehicles to deduct $7,500 from their federal taxes. This credit phases out after any manufacturer sells 20,000 qualified vehicles. The only automaker even coming close to this 20,000 threshold is Tesla and Elon Musk.

Now, Musk has publicly said he does not support the ZEV, stating on a recent earnings call: “the reality actually is that, if electric vehicle incentives went away tomorrow, Tesla’s competitive position would improve.” If Musk can’t have the tax credit much longer, he doesn’t want his competitors to have it either. So Musk uses the tax credit to get a leg up and then wants to eliminate it to punish his competitors when he can’t get it anymore? Oddly enough, the only profitable quarter Tesla has seen in a long time was selling $139 million in pollution tax credits to other automakers.

To me, the lesson of Elon Musk – who, according to a report by the Los Angeles Times in May of 2015, has been the beneficiary of almost $5 billion dollars in government subsidies – is that these green tax credits allow businesses to subvert the free-market to their own advantage. I don’t blame Musk, nor is this piece meant to be a critique of him. The business world is a tough place, and competitors need to seek out any advantage they can get. I just don’t think the American tax code should be a tool used by corporate titans to gain leverage or advantage over each other. Success should be determined by the quality and price of their products and services in the free market.


More importantly, if Congress eliminates these “green” energy tax credits, we pay down the debt and put badly needed funds into education, infrastructure, and other important priorities that help to improve the lives of regular people and allow them to pursue the American dream. Elon Musk has said multiple times in recent months that he doesn’t want government subsidies. The Trump Administration and the Congress should give him his wish in the upcoming tax reform debate.


Linky




...let him who has no sword sell his robe and buy one. Luke 22:35-36 NAV

"Behold, I send you out as sheep in the midst of wolves; so be shrewd as serpents and innocent as doves." Matthew 10:16 NASV
 
Posts: 4403 | Location: Valley, Oregon | Registered: June 03, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
No double standards
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Fenris:
Elon Musk is a super genius and will prove all the nay sayers to be blind idiots. Musk says Tesla will be expanding operations into the highly profitable snake oil and unicorn fart markets.


Might that be the unscented unicorn fart market?

But more seriously, isn't Musk's current interest in populating Mars?




"Liberty lies in the hearts of men and women. When it dies there, no constitution, no law, no court can save it....While it lies there, it needs no constitution, no law, no court to save it"
- Judge Learned Hand, May 1944
 
Posts: 30668 | Location: UT | Registered: November 11, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Fire begets Fire
Picture of SIGnified
posted Hide Post
No such thing as a zero emissions car -

Somewhere, some energy/fuel was used to produce the electricity (which incurs efficiency loss due to transportation/resistance).

And, seeing that we don't build Hydro anymore, it's most likely it's from burning something ... freaking idiots.


Don't get me started on those toxic as shit batteries.





"Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty."
~Robert A. Heinlein
 
Posts: 26758 | Location: dughouse | Registered: February 04, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
No double standards
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by SIGnified:
No such thing as a zero emissions car -

Somewhere, some energy/fuel was used to produce the electricity (which incurs efficiency loss due to transportation/resistance).

And, seeing that we don't build Hydro anymore, it's most likely it's from burning something ... freaking idiots.


Don't get me started on those toxic as shit batteries.


I recently made a similar point at a fundraiser. Seems the person I was chatting with is tied to the environmental movement. Oops.




"Liberty lies in the hearts of men and women. When it dies there, no constitution, no law, no court can save it....While it lies there, it needs no constitution, no law, no court to save it"
- Judge Learned Hand, May 1944
 
Posts: 30668 | Location: UT | Registered: November 11, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
3° that never cooled
Picture of rock185
posted Hide Post
SIGnified, I've sure wondered about that myself. That electricity has to be generated somewhere. Millions,perhaps billions, of batteries containing nasty stuff have to be recycled at some point,etc. Seems it's becoming morally superior in some circles to own and operate Green/"Zero emissions vehicles". But last I heard,universal law has not changed. There is no such thing as a free lunch.....


NRA Life
 
Posts: 1587 | Location: Under the Tonto Rim | Registered: August 18, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Fire begets Fire
Picture of SIGnified
posted Hide Post
Yup, the emperors new clothes… paid for with your tax dollars.





"Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty."
~Robert A. Heinlein
 
Posts: 26758 | Location: dughouse | Registered: February 04, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
Saw a Model X being used as a tow vehicle at a car show. New pulling old.

Amazon doesn't make money at retail... it makes it on AWS, from the infrastructure that was being primarily used for an online store.

Tessa will make money on battery technologies.


--
I always prefer reality when I can figure out what it is.

JALLEN 10/18/18
https://sigforum.com/eve/forum...610094844#7610094844
 
Posts: 2415 | Location: Roswell, GA | Registered: March 10, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of bigdeal
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by BBMW:
Ford's the past, Tesla's the future. At least that's what the market thinks. The market is a leading indicator. The value is based on the prediction of future earnings, not current earnings.
Then there's a slightly different viewpoint that appears to be growing giving the number of articles online. and don't forget about the Solar City pacts to capital.

2 Concerns Facing Tesla


-----------------------------
Guns are awesome because they shoot solid lead freedom. Every man should have several guns. And several dogs, because a man with a cat is a woman. Kurt Schlichter
 
Posts: 33845 | Location: Orlando, FL | Registered: April 30, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of bigdeal
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by SigJacket:
Tesla will make money on battery technologies.
Only 'if' it comes through with a break through in battery tech, which is always possible. But the current lithium battery technology is not going to be the solution for the future.


-----------------------------
Guns are awesome because they shoot solid lead freedom. Every man should have several guns. And several dogs, because a man with a cat is a woman. Kurt Schlichter
 
Posts: 33845 | Location: Orlando, FL | Registered: April 30, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Doin' what I can
with what I got
Picture of Rob Decker
posted Hide Post
I would not personally drive one - like many other posters, I expect more range out of my vehicles - but I know a number of people who probably will never put more than 200 miles on their personal vehicle in a given day, and probably average far less than that.

For those low-mileage commuters a less expensive Tesla makes a lot of sense.


----------------------------------------
Death smiles at us all. Be sure you smile back.
 
Posts: 5544 | Location: Greater Nashville, TN | Registered: May 11, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by 95flhr:
I don't get the current stock prices or valuation at all. It seems pretty irrational to me for a toy.
Any car that only has a range of 200-300 miles and takes hours to refuel, is a toy and not a serious transportation option in my life.


I agree, but they're selling LOTS of them. Here in South Florida you see Tesla's all over the place. I'm thinking the stock is being driven up by some of Tesla's future income based on it's other inventions like the solar roof tiles......
 
Posts: 21421 | Registered: June 12, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Don't Panic
Picture of joel9507
posted Hide Post
Somehow the hype and fuss of Tesla today puts me in memory of Akamai Technologies in 1999. (OTC:AKAM)
IPO in Nov 1999, priced at $26 by the underwriters, first aftermarket trade at $110. Killer company, killer tech. Visionary management, technology way ahead of competition and crucial for its industry to advance. Never mind that sales in the IPO year were under $2M and it lost money doing so - stock went up and up. In a few months, it was over $300. Champagne and caviar for everyone.

Then, of course, a few more months later it was 2000 and investors started noticing all of the emperors that had no clothes (well, no profits, very little revenues) and started and looking for results rather than slideware. When AKAM bottomed out in 2003 it was under $2/share.

Yes, it survived (and still does) and yes it now makes money. And, if you waited to buy it when it bottomed out at $2 and held on, you'd have made a boatload, too. But if you bought on the first upswing when it was fresh and new and everyone was on board...well it's at $59 now, so...no.

Long way to say, don't pin your hopes on the investing community to tell you what a company is worth. Wink
 
Posts: 15217 | Location: North Carolina | Registered: October 15, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
10mm is The
Boom of Doom
Picture of Fenris
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by SIGnified:
Somewhere, some energy/fuel was used to produce the electricity (which incurs efficiency loss due to transportation/resistance).

And, seeing that we don't build Hydro anymore, it's most likely it's from burning something ... freaking idiots.

Socially and morally superior electricity is produced by burning (or shredding) birds, particularly eagles.




God Bless and Protect the Once and Future President, Donald John Trump.
 
Posts: 17593 | Location: Northern Virginia | Registered: November 08, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Cruising the
Highway to Hell
Picture of 95flhr
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Fenris:
quote:
Originally posted by 6guns:
Stay charged while you’re on the road using the Tesla Supercharger network. Placed along well travelled highways, a Supercharger provides up to 170 miles of range in as little as 30 minutes

I get impatient at the gas pump after 3 minutes, and that gets me 600 miles.


Same here. Roll Eyes




“Government exists to protect us from each other. Where government has gone beyond its limits is in deciding to protect us from ourselves.”
― Ronald Reagan

Retired old fart
 
Posts: 6541 | Location: Near the Beaverdam in VA | Registered: February 13, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by bigdeal:
quote:
Originally posted by SigJacket:
Tesla will make money on battery technologies.
Only 'if' it comes through with a break through in battery tech, which is always possible. But the current lithium battery technology is not going to be the solution for the future.

This. One thing everybody is forgetting is that lithium is a rare and finite resource. We can see this by looking at the fact that it's price has tripled over the past decade or so... Lithium batteries are NOT the future, and no matter how much the eco-nuts pat themselves on their back, they are NOT saving the environment.
 
Posts: 440 | Location: Utah | Registered: March 01, 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Master-at-Arms
Picture of apf383
posted Hide Post
Good thing I passed on it at 135.00. Mad Another missed boat in my life, oh well, guess I'm going back to work tomorrow...
My biggest so far was passing on Apple at 14.00 yrs ago, what a dick!!!
And my latest, watching Elbit Systems Ltd. (ESLT), jet upwards of 120.00 after I looked at it at 63.00. Good thing I don't do this for a living...



Foster's, Australian for Bud

 
Posts: 7517 | Location: Stuck in NY, FUAC  | Registered: November 22, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Knows too little
about too much
Picture of rduckwor
posted Hide Post
Tesla is the Twitter of the automotive world. All hat, no cattle.

RMD




TL Davis: “The Second Amendment is special, not because it protects guns, but because its violation signals a government with the intention to oppress its people…”
Remember: After the first one, the rest are free.
 
Posts: 20412 | Location: L.A. - Lower Alabama | Registered: April 06, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
No double standards
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by rock185:
SIGnified, I've sure wondered about that myself. That electricity has to be generated somewhere. Millions,perhaps billions, of batteries containing nasty stuff have to be recycled at some point,etc. Seems it's becoming morally superior in some circles to own and operate Green/"Zero emissions vehicles". But last I heard,universal law has not changed. There is no such thing as a free lunch.....


Ditto here.

I wonder if anyone credible has added up the anti-environmental byproducts of mining and processing the materials from which to make the batteries. Then the toxic waste as part of the battery manufacturing process and the recycle/disposal process. Then the any use of hydrocarbon based fuels to generate electricity to run the cars. It may well be all electric vehicles do more damage to the environment than regular cars.

Sidenote. The (currently) largest solar power plant in the US is Ivanpah in So Cal. I understand the electricity costs 50% more to generate than the plan called for. And they have natural gas backup for when there is no sun -- when they fire up the burners they emit enough CO2 that they had to file as a gross polluter. Also, the impact of the solar panels has caused quite a bit of damage to the local flora and fauna.




"Liberty lies in the hearts of men and women. When it dies there, no constitution, no law, no court can save it....While it lies there, it needs no constitution, no law, no court to save it"
- Judge Learned Hand, May 1944
 
Posts: 30668 | Location: UT | Registered: November 11, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
No double standards
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by jimmy123x:...they're selling LOTS of them. Here in South Florida you see Tesla's all over the place.....


I live in Silicon Valley. Smile




"Liberty lies in the hearts of men and women. When it dies there, no constitution, no law, no court can save it....While it lies there, it needs no constitution, no law, no court to save it"
- Judge Learned Hand, May 1944
 
Posts: 30668 | Location: UT | Registered: November 11, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by SIGnified:
No such thing as a zero emissions car -

Somewhere, some energy/fuel was used to produce the electricity (which incurs efficiency loss due to transportation/resistance).

And, seeing that we don't build Hydro anymore, it's most likely it's from burning something ... freaking idiots.


Don't get me started on those toxic as shit batteries.


My thoughts exactly after reading zero emissions.


NRA Life Endowment member
Tri-State Gun collectors Life Member
 
Posts: 2794 | Location: Ohio | Registered: December 18, 2014Reply With QuoteReport This Post
  Powered by Social Strata Page 1 2 3  
 

SIGforum.com    Main Page  Hop To Forum Categories  The Lounge    After Topping Ford, Tesla's Stock Value Overtakes GM

© SIGforum 2024