quote:

Originally posted by dry-fly:
Jallen...this may have been addressed prior to my post, but as a former Texas Paramedic my experience was as follows:

If there is dependent lividity (obvious blood pooling from being deceased awhile) *or* injuries incompatible with life then I had standing orders that allowed me to pronounce the patient “deceased”.

If that is not present and there is any question about a DNR (paperwork not present, etc.) then I was obligated to start resuscitation measures.

Sorry if that’s ghoulish, I hope that helps a little.

Don’t worry about ghoulishness. I always prefer reality when I can figure out what it is.

I appreciate the various possibilities better now. We have been told not to call 911. I guess if you are dead, what’s the rush.

The idea of EMS running out here and working on a dead person unless there was exacting paperwork seemed sufficiently silly to question it.

Thanksto all who chimed in.

Don't know about Texas but when my parents passed away in Alabaman under Hospice care, my sister called the Hospice care and not 911. Hospice took care of all notifications of the death.

Jim,

Not sure if you recall, we met once in Coronado. I was looking for a particular print of some guys on the flightdeck standing behind the JBD.

I still have the print (framed and in my office) and always think about our beer together when looking at it. You will be remembered my friend.

Ross

quote:

Originally posted by LS1 GTO:
Jim,

Not sure if you recall, we met once in Coronado. I was looking for a particular print of some guys on the flightdeck standing behind the JBD.

I still have the print (framed and in my office) and always think about our beer together when looking at it. You will be remembered my friend.

Ross

I do remember the meeting, but not the picture. What is the JBD?

I was gratified that, in addition to mere survival of the Orange Boulevard 5k with the crazy SEALs, I was able to recall seeing that picture you described in one of the bars.

The Orange Blvd 5k, so called, involved starting at that beer bar at 1st and Orange and having a drink or more at every bar all the way out to the Amphib Base O Club, and back.

I wonder if anyone still tries that. Coronado is more citified, many of the bars are repurposed, the Navy has a different tolerance for drunkenness and now that exSEAL McP has that restaurant/bar conveniently located, why take your business elsewhere.

quote:

Originally posted by JALLEN:

quote:

Originally posted by LS1 GTO:
Jim,

Not sure if you recall, we met once in Coronado. I was looking for a particular print of some guys on the flightdeck standing behind the JBD.

I still have the print (framed and in my office) and always think about our beer together when looking at it. You will be remembered my friend.

Ross

I do remember the meeting, but not the picture. What is the JBD?

I was gratified that, in addition to mere survival of the Orange Boulevard 5k with the crazy SEALs, I was able to recall seeing that picture you described in one of the bars.

The Orange Blvd 5k, so called, involved starting at that beer bar at 1st and Orange and having a drink or more at every bar all the way out to the Amphib Base O Club, and back.

I wonder if anyone still tries that. Coronado is more citified, many of the bars are repurposed, the Navy has a different tolerance for drunkenness and now that exSEAL McP has that restaurant/bar conveniently located, why take your business elsewhere.

Four guys on the flightdeck with an aircraft on the catapult. The aircraft is up on power and the Jet Blast Defector (JBD) is up. The guys are holding hands over their faces due to the heat of the exhaust while trying to breath. (Pretty sure they are the recovery crew and waiting for an aircraft to trap (land on the flghtdeck).

I know here in NC specifically the Charlotte NC area and surrounding counties that we (The ME office) cover, an individual under hospice care whether it be home or at a facility, who has a DNR/DNI filled out, the call comes to our office.

The personnel at the facility whether it is a Nurse or Doctor makes the pronouncement and then they notify us.

I am not sure how it is in Texas, but what we counsel families on here in NC is to have a Funeral home chosen to handle the arrangements. If a funeral home is chosen they handle the proceedings after one is pronounced. If one is not chosen the individual has to come to our office for "storage" till the family has time to choose a Funeral Home.

I like to work with families ahead of time because it is less stress and emotional turmoil on them and also it is less financial strain, and added costs.

I hope I explained that correctly. My brain is still foggy from a long busy night.

Jim, I hope you don't mind, but I updated my Sig Line:

Do you have a Texas lawyer doing your wills? You need medical powers of attorney and a directive to physicians. Let me know if you need help.

quote:

Originally posted by jhe888:
Do you have a Texas lawyer doing your wills? You need medical powers of attorney and a directive to physicians. Let me know if you need help.

Thanks, jhe. Do those take the place of a DNR?

A niece is a trust/estate planning lawyer near Ft. Worth. She has her work cut out for her, because my wife is not the mother of my sons and that introduces some delicate considerations.

The directive to physicians is the same a DNR.

quote:

I am being told that unless I have the proper form, signed by me, the doctor, maybe some others, is in hand, when my wife calls to tell 911 that I woke up dead, the EMS crew dispatched will try to resuscitate me.

So very true. Three years ago to my ever lasting regret, my 94 year old mother passed away while taking a nap. The small town medics were called and despite her husband and my brother being there with paper in hand made them drag her off the bed onto the floor so they could start to work on her. Despite our objections t hey said that they could not determine the validity of the paperwork and state law (Mass) saying that they have to work on her no matter what.

I was incensed and paid the Town Medical Response Unit a visit a week later and was told in so many words "tough luck", if you don't like it have them change the law.

The Chief Medic (big position description for a very small town) said the only way they would not work on someone is if they had been dead for a couple of hours or they showed signs of Rigor.

Sounds like your advise was on point.

I will never forgive them.

quote:

Originally posted by Oz_Shadow:
Around here, in addition to this, there is no rush for the spouse to call anyone. A spouse should take the time she needs with the person.

quote:

Originally posted by 12131:
Yes, no rush here, either. The hospice folks tell us to take time with our mother.

^^Yep. This^^.

Best scenario call for a medic on someone who is terminal....
Medic - "What time did he stop breathing?"
Wife - "About 2 hours ago."

You are on the right track with hospice taking the lead and God Bless You for doing that for your family.
Get the paperwork in order just in case someone other than the immediate family calls EMS.

quote:

Originally posted by JALLEN:

quote:

Originally posted by jhe888:
Do you have a Texas lawyer doing your wills? You need medical powers of attorney and a directive to physicians. Let me know if you need help.

Thanks, jhe. Do those take the place of a DNR?

A niece is a trust/estate planning lawyer near Ft. Worth. She has her work cut out for her, because my wife is not the mother of my sons and that introduces some delicate considerations.

I would have JHE handle it, just to keep a neutral person to the family from doing your will/trust/estate planning if one of those family members starts contesting it, they could say your niece did the paperwork and changed things or you weren't coherent enough to make decisions, etc. etc.

I have seen kids fight over the damnedest of things when their is money involved. I saw 2 adopted sons and the guy also had a blood daughter involved and he was worth $150 million...the will was split pretty much evenly 3 ways and the kids were contesting the will over who got stupid petty assets.......his real daughter said, just give me $20 mill. and you 2 can have the rest of it...….

quote:

Originally posted by JALLEN:

This seems so idiotic as to suggest it might actually happen.

What’s the real deal with these things? Can’t you die in peace without paperwork anymore?

Lawyers man... Lawyers.



A few things: Dr's, EMS, 911 are all in the "Life SAVING" bidness.
To be rather blunt, you want to exit that door rather quickly and not linger. A DNR is the way to go about it, depending on your next of kin.

Way, way before my father died, he had a DNR drawn up. He clearly expressed his feelings to myself and my brother, as well as his ex-wife (our mother). He let us know where his DNR was located as well. His reasoning was simple, but painful. His best friend since kindergarten (60+ years), was dying of cancer, and at the end was put on life support. He lingered in a hospital bed for far, far too long on life support because of some of his children "didn't want to see him go", the others wanted it to just end. It still causes strife in that family years later.

A DNR kind of puts that decision solely in your hands.

If I may, I would suggest you call a currently licensed TX attorney and get their opinion. Didn't jhe88 say he was going to contact you? I would get his opinion or from someone he suggests. This is too important to not seek professional help. And, you know what they say about attorneys who represent themselves. Moreover, you shouldn’t have to fret over this when help is close to you.
Once again, my best to you and your family!

Brother, I'm just going to lay it out here for you. When the time is neigh, tell your doctor you do not wish to languish and struggle for breath. Request a morphine drip to ease your breathing. And ativan to ease your anxiety. God forgive me and I'm not trying to be uncaring or callous, but I've seen too many good people struggle to pass away. If that is truely your destiny at this time, and if there is no way you can change the outcome, make it easy on yourself. God bless you and take you into his caring arms.

quote:

This seems so idiotic as to suggest it might actually happen.

Well as a guy who worked in the field for 34 years it may seem idiotic but it happens. EMS workers like everyone else have rules and regulations they have to follow or they get sued. If there is not paperwork or it's not correct then they have a duty to act. I had some really shitty calls where we had to act because nothing was done correctly and our hands were tied.

Do the paperwork and do it correctly and save your family the heartbreak and headaches.

I know you posted that you are under hospice care and usually 911 isn't called, instead the caseworker is and they take care of everything.

I don’t know where I got this from but I heard of writing DNR on your chest with indelible ink pen.

quote:

Originally posted by MarinetoRN:
Brother, I'm just going to lay it out here for you. When the time is neigh, tell your doctor you do not wish to languish and struggle for breath. Request a morphine drip to ease your breathing. And ativan to ease your anxiety. God forgive me and I'm not trying to be uncaring or callous, but I've seen too many good people struggle to pass away. If that is truely your destiny at this time, and if there is no way you can change the outcome, make it easy on yourself. God bless you and take you into his caring arms.

Thanks for that. As I mentioned earlier, I prefer reality when I can figure out what it is.

Those have been mentioned by the hospice nurse. So far, so good.

I struggle to catch my breath upon exertion, panting actually, and that is getting more pronounced. The oximeter low so far is 62. You don’t want to know what that feels like.

quote:

Originally posted by JALLEN:

quote:

Originally posted by MarinetoRN:
Brother, I'm just going to lay it out here for you. When the time is neigh, tell your doctor you do not wish to languish and struggle for breath. Request a morphine drip to ease your breathing. And ativan to ease your anxiety. God forgive me and I'm not trying to be uncaring or callous, but I've seen too many good people struggle to pass away. If that is truely your destiny at this time, and if there is no way you can change the outcome, make it easy on yourself. God bless you and take you into his caring arms.

Thanks for that. As I mentioned earlier, I prefer reality when I can figure out what it is.

Those have been mentioned by the hospice nurse. So far, so good.

I struggle to catch my breath upon exertion, panting actually, and that is getting more pronounced. The oximeter low so far is 62. You don’t want to know what that feels like.

I'm really sorry you have to go through this and that it's not quick and pain free. Jim you have added more to this forum than anyone I can think of in the 13 years I've been here. You have always had a way of posting things so eloquently and professionally as well as added a lot of great postings that many forum members look forward to reading and learning from. I hope when the time comes you will not be in any pain. I know you will be missed greatly by all of your Sigforum friends, including me.