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I believe in the
principle of
Due Process
Picture of JALLEN
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by dry-fly:
Jallen...this may have been addressed prior to my post, but as a former Texas Paramedic my experience was as follows:

If there is dependent lividity (obvious blood pooling from being deceased awhile) *or* injuries incompatible with life then I had standing orders that allowed me to pronounce the patient “deceased”.

If that is not present and there is any question about a DNR (paperwork not present, etc.) then I was obligated to start resuscitation measures.

Sorry if that’s ghoulish, I hope that helps a little.


Don’t worry about ghoulishness. I always prefer reality when I can figure out what it is.

I appreciate the various possibilities better now. We have been told not to call 911. I guess if you are dead, what’s the rush.

The idea of EMS running out here and working on a dead person unless there was exacting paperwork seemed sufficiently silly to question it.

Thanksto all who chimed in.




Luckily, I have enough willpower to control the driving ambition that rages within me.

When you had the votes, we did things your way. Now, we have the votes and you will be doing things our way. This lesson in political reality from Lyndon B. Johnson

"Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible." - Justice Janice Rogers Brown
 
Posts: 48369 | Location: Texas hill country | Registered: July 04, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Living my life my way
Picture of molachi
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Don't know about Texas but when my parents passed away in Alabaman under Hospice care, my sister called the Hospice care and not 911. Hospice took care of all notifications of the death.
 
Posts: 1756 | Location: The Backyard of Nowhere | Registered: August 09, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
The Unmanned Writer
Picture of LS1 GTO
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Jim,

Not sure if you recall, we met once in Coronado. I was looking for a particular print of some guys on the flightdeck standing behind the JBD.

I still have the print (framed and in my office) and always think about our beer together when looking at it. You will be remembered my friend.

Ross






Life moves pretty fast. If you don't stop and look around once in a while, you could miss it.



"If dogs don't go to Heaven, I want to go where they go" Will Rogers

The definition of the words we used, carry a meaning of their own...



 
Posts: 14048 | Location: It was Lat: 33.xxxx Lon: 44.xxxx now it's CA :( | Registered: March 22, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
I believe in the
principle of
Due Process
Picture of JALLEN
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by LS1 GTO:
Jim,

Not sure if you recall, we met once in Coronado. I was looking for a particular print of some guys on the flightdeck standing behind the JBD.

I still have the print (framed and in my office) and always think about our beer together when looking at it. You will be remembered my friend.

Ross


I do remember the meeting, but not the picture. What is the JBD?

I was gratified that, in addition to mere survival of the Orange Boulevard 5k with the crazy SEALs, I was able to recall seeing that picture you described in one of the bars.

The Orange Blvd 5k, so called, involved starting at that beer bar at 1st and Orange and having a drink or more at every bar all the way out to the Amphib Base O Club, and back.

I wonder if anyone still tries that. Coronado is more citified, many of the bars are repurposed, the Navy has a different tolerance for drunkenness and now that exSEAL McP has that restaurant/bar conveniently located, why take your business elsewhere.




Luckily, I have enough willpower to control the driving ambition that rages within me.

When you had the votes, we did things your way. Now, we have the votes and you will be doing things our way. This lesson in political reality from Lyndon B. Johnson

"Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible." - Justice Janice Rogers Brown
 
Posts: 48369 | Location: Texas hill country | Registered: July 04, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
The Unmanned Writer
Picture of LS1 GTO
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by JALLEN:
quote:
Originally posted by LS1 GTO:
Jim,

Not sure if you recall, we met once in Coronado. I was looking for a particular print of some guys on the flightdeck standing behind the JBD.

I still have the print (framed and in my office) and always think about our beer together when looking at it. You will be remembered my friend.

Ross


I do remember the meeting, but not the picture. What is the JBD?

I was gratified that, in addition to mere survival of the Orange Boulevard 5k with the crazy SEALs, I was able to recall seeing that picture you described in one of the bars.

The Orange Blvd 5k, so called, involved starting at that beer bar at 1st and Orange and having a drink or more at every bar all the way out to the Amphib Base O Club, and back.

I wonder if anyone still tries that. Coronado is more citified, many of the bars are repurposed, the Navy has a different tolerance for drunkenness and now that exSEAL McP has that restaurant/bar conveniently located, why take your business elsewhere.


Four guys on the flightdeck with an aircraft on the catapult. The aircraft is up on power and the Jet Blast Defector (JBD) is up. The guys are holding hands over their faces due to the heat of the exhaust while trying to breath. (Pretty sure they are the recovery crew and waiting for an aircraft to trap (land on the flghtdeck).






Life moves pretty fast. If you don't stop and look around once in a while, you could miss it.



"If dogs don't go to Heaven, I want to go where they go" Will Rogers

The definition of the words we used, carry a meaning of their own...



 
Posts: 14048 | Location: It was Lat: 33.xxxx Lon: 44.xxxx now it's CA :( | Registered: March 22, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
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I know here in NC specifically the Charlotte NC area and surrounding counties that we (The ME office) cover, an individual under hospice care whether it be home or at a facility, who has a DNR/DNI filled out, the call comes to our office.

The personnel at the facility whether it is a Nurse or Doctor makes the pronouncement and then they notify us.

I am not sure how it is in Texas, but what we counsel families on here in NC is to have a Funeral home chosen to handle the arrangements. If a funeral home is chosen they handle the proceedings after one is pronounced. If one is not chosen the individual has to come to our office for "storage" till the family has time to choose a Funeral Home.

I like to work with families ahead of time because it is less stress and emotional turmoil on them and also it is less financial strain, and added costs.

I hope I explained that correctly. My brain is still foggy from a long busy night.
 
Posts: 1836 | Location: In NC trying to get back to VA | Registered: March 03, 2015Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
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Jim, I hope you don't mind, but I updated my Sig Line:


--------------------------
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
-- H L Mencken

I always prefer reality when I can figure out what it is.
-- JALLEN 10/18/18
 
Posts: 9193 | Location: Illinois farm country | Registered: November 15, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Little ray
of sunshine
Picture of jhe888
posted Hide Post
Do you have a Texas lawyer doing your wills? You need medical powers of attorney and a directive to physicians. Let me know if you need help.




The fish is mute, expressionless. The fish doesn't think because the fish knows everything.
 
Posts: 53126 | Location: Texas | Registered: February 10, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
I believe in the
principle of
Due Process
Picture of JALLEN
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by jhe888:
Do you have a Texas lawyer doing your wills? You need medical powers of attorney and a directive to physicians. Let me know if you need help.


Thanks, jhe. Do those take the place of a DNR?

A niece is a trust/estate planning lawyer near Ft. Worth. She has her work cut out for her, because my wife is not the mother of my sons and that introduces some delicate considerations.




Luckily, I have enough willpower to control the driving ambition that rages within me.

When you had the votes, we did things your way. Now, we have the votes and you will be doing things our way. This lesson in political reality from Lyndon B. Johnson

"Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible." - Justice Janice Rogers Brown
 
Posts: 48369 | Location: Texas hill country | Registered: July 04, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Little ray
of sunshine
Picture of jhe888
posted Hide Post
The directive to physicians is the same a DNR.




The fish is mute, expressionless. The fish doesn't think because the fish knows everything.
 
Posts: 53126 | Location: Texas | Registered: February 10, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
quote:
I am being told that unless I have the proper form, signed by me, the doctor, maybe some others, is in hand, when my wife calls to tell 911 that I woke up dead, the EMS crew dispatched will try to resuscitate me.


So very true. Three years ago to my ever lasting regret, my 94 year old mother passed away while taking a nap. The small town medics were called and despite her husband and my brother being there with paper in hand made them drag her off the bed onto the floor so they could start to work on her. Despite our objections t hey said that they could not determine the validity of the paperwork and state law (Mass) saying that they have to work on her no matter what.

I was incensed and paid the Town Medical Response Unit a visit a week later and was told in so many words "tough luck", if you don't like it have them change the law.

The Chief Medic (big position description for a very small town) said the only way they would not work on someone is if they had been dead for a couple of hours or they showed signs of Rigor.

Sounds like your advise was on point.

I will never forgive them.
 
Posts: 990 | Location: Windermere, Florida | Registered: February 11, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
I have not yet begun
to procrastinate
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Oz_Shadow:
Around here, in addition to this, there is no rush for the spouse to call anyone. A spouse should take the time she needs with the person.

quote:
Originally posted by 12131:
Yes, no rush here, either. The hospice folks tell us to take time with our mother.

^^Yep. This^^.

Best scenario call for a medic on someone who is terminal....
Medic - "What time did he stop breathing?"
Wife - "About 2 hours ago."

You are on the right track with hospice taking the lead and God Bless You for doing that for your family.
Get the paperwork in order just in case someone other than the immediate family calls EMS.


--------
After the game, the King and the pawn go into the same box.
 
Posts: 3777 | Location: Central AZ | Registered: October 26, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by JALLEN:
quote:
Originally posted by jhe888:
Do you have a Texas lawyer doing your wills? You need medical powers of attorney and a directive to physicians. Let me know if you need help.


Thanks, jhe. Do those take the place of a DNR?

A niece is a trust/estate planning lawyer near Ft. Worth. She has her work cut out for her, because my wife is not the mother of my sons and that introduces some delicate considerations.


I would have JHE handle it, just to keep a neutral person to the family from doing your will/trust/estate planning if one of those family members starts contesting it, they could say your niece did the paperwork and changed things or you weren't coherent enough to make decisions, etc. etc.

I have seen kids fight over the damnedest of things when their is money involved. I saw 2 adopted sons and the guy also had a blood daughter involved and he was worth $150 million...the will was split pretty much evenly 3 ways and the kids were contesting the will over who got stupid petty assets.......his real daughter said, just give me $20 mill. and you 2 can have the rest of it...….
 
Posts: 21335 | Registered: June 12, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by JALLEN:

This seems so idiotic as to suggest it might actually happen.

What’s the real deal with these things? Can’t you die in peace without paperwork anymore?



Lawyers man... Lawyers.
Wink


A few things: Dr's, EMS, 911 are all in the "Life SAVING" bidness.
To be rather blunt, you want to exit that door rather quickly and not linger. A DNR is the way to go about it, depending on your next of kin.

Way, way before my father died, he had a DNR drawn up. He clearly expressed his feelings to myself and my brother, as well as his ex-wife (our mother). He let us know where his DNR was located as well. His reasoning was simple, but painful. His best friend since kindergarten (60+ years), was dying of cancer, and at the end was put on life support. He lingered in a hospital bed for far, far too long on life support because of some of his children "didn't want to see him go", the others wanted it to just end. It still causes strife in that family years later.

A DNR kind of puts that decision solely in your hands.


______________________________________________________________________
"When its time to shoot, shoot. Dont talk!"

“What the government is good at is collecting taxes, taking away your freedoms and killing people. It’s not good at much else.” —Author Tom Clancy
 
Posts: 8375 | Location: Attempting to keep the noise down around Midway Airport | Registered: February 14, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Res ipsa loquitur
Picture of BB61
posted Hide Post
If I may, I would suggest you call a currently licensed TX attorney and get their opinion. Didn't jhe88 say he was going to contact you? I would get his opinion or from someone he suggests. This is too important to not seek professional help. And, you know what they say about attorneys who represent themselves. Moreover, you shouldn’t have to fret over this when help is close to you.
Once again, my best to you and your family!


__________________________

 
Posts: 12484 | Registered: October 13, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
10 November, 1775
Picture of MarinetoRN
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Brother, I'm just going to lay it out here for you. When the time is neigh, tell your doctor you do not wish to languish and struggle for breath. Request a morphine drip to ease your breathing. And ativan to ease your anxiety. God forgive me and I'm not trying to be uncaring or callous, but I've seen too many good people struggle to pass away. If that is truely your destiny at this time, and if there is no way you can change the outcome, make it easy on yourself. God bless you and take you into his caring arms.


SiGArm'd

P220ST X2, 1911 Revolution, P245, P229 RTTEQ/ST .40 X2, P226ST, Mosquito
Other weaponry not SIG

Glocks are ugly.
I don't like repeat offenders, I like dead offenders.
 
Posts: 2471 | Location: Eastern NC | Registered: August 18, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
quote:
This seems so idiotic as to suggest it might actually happen.


Well as a guy who worked in the field for 34 years it may seem idiotic but it happens. EMS workers like everyone else have rules and regulations they have to follow or they get sued. If there is not paperwork or it's not correct then they have a duty to act. I had some really shitty calls where we had to act because nothing was done correctly and our hands were tied.

Do the paperwork and do it correctly and save your family the heartbreak and headaches.

I know you posted that you are under hospice care and usually 911 isn't called, instead the caseworker is and they take care of everything.
 
Posts: 2128 | Location: Tacoma, Wa. | Registered: February 18, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
His Royal Hiney
Picture of Rey HRH
posted Hide Post
I don’t know where I got this from but I heard of writing DNR on your chest with indelible ink pen.



"It did not really matter what we expected from life, but rather what life expected from us. We needed to stop asking about the meaning of life, and instead to think of ourselves as those who were being questioned by life – daily and hourly. Our answer must consist not in talk and meditation, but in right action and in right conduct. Life ultimately means taking the responsibility to find the right answer to its problems and to fulfill the tasks which it constantly sets for each individual." Viktor Frankl, Man's Search for Meaning, 1946.
 
Posts: 19744 | Location: The Free State of Arizona - Ditat Deus | Registered: March 24, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
I believe in the
principle of
Due Process
Picture of JALLEN
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by MarinetoRN:
Brother, I'm just going to lay it out here for you. When the time is neigh, tell your doctor you do not wish to languish and struggle for breath. Request a morphine drip to ease your breathing. And ativan to ease your anxiety. God forgive me and I'm not trying to be uncaring or callous, but I've seen too many good people struggle to pass away. If that is truely your destiny at this time, and if there is no way you can change the outcome, make it easy on yourself. God bless you and take you into his caring arms.


Thanks for that. As I mentioned earlier, I prefer reality when I can figure out what it is.

Those have been mentioned by the hospice nurse. So far, so good.

I struggle to catch my breath upon exertion, panting actually, and that is getting more pronounced. The oximeter low so far is 62. You don’t want to know what that feels like.




Luckily, I have enough willpower to control the driving ambition that rages within me.

When you had the votes, we did things your way. Now, we have the votes and you will be doing things our way. This lesson in political reality from Lyndon B. Johnson

"Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible." - Justice Janice Rogers Brown
 
Posts: 48369 | Location: Texas hill country | Registered: July 04, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by JALLEN:
quote:
Originally posted by MarinetoRN:
Brother, I'm just going to lay it out here for you. When the time is neigh, tell your doctor you do not wish to languish and struggle for breath. Request a morphine drip to ease your breathing. And ativan to ease your anxiety. God forgive me and I'm not trying to be uncaring or callous, but I've seen too many good people struggle to pass away. If that is truely your destiny at this time, and if there is no way you can change the outcome, make it easy on yourself. God bless you and take you into his caring arms.


Thanks for that. As I mentioned earlier, I prefer reality when I can figure out what it is.

Those have been mentioned by the hospice nurse. So far, so good.

I struggle to catch my breath upon exertion, panting actually, and that is getting more pronounced. The oximeter low so far is 62. You don’t want to know what that feels like.


I'm really sorry you have to go through this and that it's not quick and pain free. Jim you have added more to this forum than anyone I can think of in the 13 years I've been here. You have always had a way of posting things so eloquently and professionally as well as added a lot of great postings that many forum members look forward to reading and learning from. I hope when the time comes you will not be in any pain. I know you will be missed greatly by all of your Sigforum friends, including me.
 
Posts: 21335 | Registered: June 12, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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