hello Gents a request -- so we don't get this thread locked --

can we keep comments related to the actual trial -- testimony / strategy / attorneys, etc ?

if the discussion gets too inflamed on member OPINIONS of GF, Chauvin etc I can see this going sideways very quickly

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quote:

Originally posted by LS1 GTO:
So somebody in the LEO capacity help me out here; why wasn't the suspect sat up once he was cuffed?

Why keep him face down with extra body weight applied?

Good Question.

Better question maybe. Why not get off the Man when he passed out 4 to 5 min. before the ambulance showed up?

Does Jury nullification work both ways?

Meaning could the juror's want to send a message that this kind of treatment by the police is not acceptable? Come in with a guilty verdict for murder even if it technically is a stretch.

Cheni you have the same access to the toxicology as anyone. You are being obtuse on this point. The Medical Examiner was quite clear that at 11 ng/ml of fentanyl he had a potentially fatal overdose. That’s not fucking speculation. It’s the toxicology report. You are pretending it doesn’t exist because it doesn’t fit your agenda. The ME also went on to say while talking to the AG of the state that absent the video he would have ruled it an accidental overdose. If you won’t take the toxicology report or the ME’s own words you have already made up your mind. You are blind to the evidence that doesn’t support your desired outcome. You saw a video and by goodness that’s enough for you.

If you can’t see the ignorance in that I don’t know what to tell you.

quote:

Originally posted by Mars_Attacks:
There was some group on the radio angry he has access to legal representation saying he should have to pay for counsel out of pocket just like any other person would have to.

Like paying into union legal funds is some sort of cop privilege.

Agreed and I'm sure the same group is just as angry that the accused has.....(rights?) a presumption of innocence, effective counsel, an impartial jury, and that silly stuff about prosecutors having to prove their case beyond a "reasonable doubt."

Yea, Floyd had rights, and so do accused police officers (as do all people according to our constitution), but the BLM movement wants to destroy that constitution as well as the nation it guides and replace it with exactly what? The USSR? China? North Korea? Probably something more akin to Pol Pot's regime. Lots of concerns about rights there, eh?

As to Chauvin's apparent (according to some) indifference: How many times (hundreds?) did this officer find himself in a situation where a suspect resisted arrest to the point where he/she simply couldn't be placed in the back of a police car, because the department prohibited the use of a hobble type restraint and he had to wait for the arrival of a van, paramedic or EMT FD unit so the arrestee could be transported via a gurney and no injury or death occurred? Officers ARE trained that the best means of actually controlling those who resist is to place them face down on the ground or floor until they can be fully restrained in a sitting position for transport. We've all done it (restricted a suspect from rising) routinely, because we were taught it was the safest means of restraining someone that resists until those options (with a van or gurney) arrive. Claiming the officer's impassive face is evidence of evil, racism, intent, or a lack of empathy, is (unless one has the ability to read the mind of others) projection, and nothing more. If you do something you're trained to do often enough and the outcome is what you've been trained to expect (no injuries to those involved), you don't get upset or visibly concerned. Chauvin looks no more personally emotional than when he did as he tried to get Floyd to comply with the arrest, and that's the point: He's doing what he's been trained to do and done on numerous prior occasions before.

Pulicords wrote it very well. Chauvin has done this a couple hundred times in his career with nobody dying from it. It is a trained maneuver. Absent the fentanyl Floyd lives (yes that is speculation but it’s a reasonable assumption).

quote:

Originally posted by pedropcola:
Cheni you have the same access to the toxicology as anyone. You are being obtuse on this point. The Medical Examiner was quite clear that at 11 ng/ml of fentanyl he had a potentially fatal overdose. That’s not fucking speculation. It’s the toxicology report. You are pretending it doesn’t exist because it doesn’t fit your agenda. The ME also went on to say while talking to the AG of the state that absent the video he would have ruled it an accidental overdose. If you won’t take the toxicology report or the ME’s own words you have already made up your mind. You are blind to the evidence that doesn’t support your desired outcome. You saw a video and by goodness that’s enough for you.

If you can’t see the ignorance in that I don’t know what to tell you.

SOP is to suffocate a man 4 to 5 min. after passing out from drug overdose then?

They knew he was on drugs.

So of course an overdose was possible. Why suffocate him for 4 to 5 min. AFTER HE PASSED OUT?

quote:

Originally posted by pedropcola:
Cheni you have the same access to the toxicology as anyone. You are being obtuse on this point. The Medical Examiner was quite clear that at 11 ng/ml of fentanyl he had a potentially fatal overdose. That’s not fucking speculation. It’s the toxicology report. You are pretending it doesn’t exist because it doesn’t fit your agenda. The ME also went on to say while talking to the AG of the state that absent the video he would have ruled it an accidental overdose. If you won’t take the toxicology report or the ME’s own words you have already made up your mind. You are blind to the evidence that doesn’t support your desired outcome. You saw a video and by goodness that’s enough for you.

If you can’t see the ignorance in that I don’t know what to tell you.

Lol, my agenda? What is my agenda? This should be fun.

Has the ME testified yet?

quote:

Originally posted by cheni:
Lol, my agenda? What is my agenda?

I guess you're the only one who doesn't know, then.

You're barking up the wrong tree, man. Like most posting members in this forum, I am completely fed up with these criminal children in the bodies of adults. Their entire lives are one long, uninterrupted tantrum. waaaaaaah waaaaaaaaahhhh!!! Fucking LOSERS

Hey, lets take as many drugs as we can get our hands on, then get behind the wheel of a car, just begging to get pulled over. You think these halfwits have ever even heard of "staying home"? You want to get stoned out of your mind? Fine. STAY. HOME. Idiot

How many times have we seen this same shit? Over and over and over we've seen it- always different, yet always the same. Well, enough is enough. George Floyd committed suicide.

quote:

This should be fun.

It might end up that way if you don't cool it.

My agenda is that police don't push down on a mans throat for 5 min. after he has passed out.

I feel I have been clear on that.

Is that not a fair expectation?

What do you think my agenda is?

You can ban me if you want. I snuck in the back door anyway and didn't sign the waiver

If you let me stay and I be a good boy/girl you can make my cut on may 31 2022-- "Almost Banned in the Derek Chauvin thread"

quote:

Originally posted by cheni:
If you let me stay and I be a good boy/girl you can make my cut on may 31 2022-- "Almost Banned in the Derek Chauvin thread"

Dude, please chill.

You don’t post much, but you’ve been here nine years. You know damn well this is the last thread that anyone is interested in getting into a debate about, it is posts this that get threads like this locked.

quote:

Originally posted by cheni:
If you let me stay and I be a good boy/girl you can make my cut on may 31 2022-- "Almost Banned in the Derek Chauvin thread"

We're not a comedy team, you and I, and I don't play the straight man for anyone. You're not in any danger of being banned, but you might get your verbal ass handed to you. Just be cool.

To answer your one legitimate question, no the ME hasn’t testified. His report is easily accessible though. Both the first version, the amended version, and the version where the toxicology report comes back. You can also read the memo from the discussion between the Hennepin county coroner and the AG’s office. I’m speculating perhaps but the ME’s testimony will largely follow what he has already written.

You really have no answer to 11 ng/ml. Even the prosecution knows this and the fact that the neck restraint is SOP is a tough cart to push uphill.

The common thread in almost every one of the “abuse” cases always (I know you should never use absolutes, oops did it again) is drugs and resisting arrest. Or resisting arrest and drugs. It’s like a recipe. There is a reason Ben Crump is worth more than you will ever make in 10 lifetimes. It’s not that he is a great lawyer btw. (He might be but that isn’t the reason, he found a lucrative niche and all the race baiting and ignoring of destructive behaviors plays perfectly into his hand)

As usual, Para has it right. Stay the fuck home solves every one of these problems.

I love the mantra of "if only the cops..."

But no onus is on the "victim".

Defense will destroy the ME on cross examination if he plays any games.

Are you going to lie under penalty of perjury and say that you did not modify your report based on political pressure when sitting on the witness stand during the "trial of the century" and asked directly by defense counsel? Are you going to say that the dose of Fentanyl was not potentially lethal? Are you going to say that OD's often have foaming in the lungs and mouth, already testified to by eye witnesses (much to the prosecutions surprise, which tells you something). Are you going to say that mixing Fentanyl with Meth can result in very severe effects that are somewhat different than either drug on its own? All this stuff is in the record, and the ME cannot deny it is. He will simply confirm what he has already said and what actually happened.

Celebrity ME's paid by the family or prosecution will be exposed as such. Not sure if they can be asked how much they are being paid, but I'm pretty sure you can buy an expert to say anything you want.

And the police training manual will be entered into evidence so we will see exactly what it says about restraint techniques.

To answer the oft asked question - Derek Chauvin did not release Mr. Floyd from restraint because he knew without a doubt, through training and experience, that he was not applying pressure to the airway in any manner that could constrict Mr. Floyd's breathing. If you know you are not applying excessive pressure, and you know the position is such that airway blockage is prevented, why would you change what you are doing until EMS arrives? If Mr. Floyyd was still breathing, then his relaxation may have been an effort to get the police to lessen restraint until he could fight again. I'm sure they've experienced that before too.

Say whatever you want, this will all come out in witness testimony and cross examination. No sense arguing about "what ifs" - it will all come out in time. I would prefer to discuss what has been presented so far and our reactions to it. The mostly full length body cam video clearly shows Mr. Floyds resisting, his "I can't breath" claims that started when he was standing outside the SUV, his resisting being placed in the SUV, his fighting to come out the other side of the SUV and onto the ground, all the time says "I can't breath" before anyone had any contact with his neck.

And now until the rest of time will every single suspect resisting arrest say "I can't breath" as we saw MANY times as violent protesters were arrested last summer. Yay.

quote:

Originally posted by cheni:

quote:

Originally posted by pedropcola:
Cheni you have the same access to the toxicology as anyone. You are being obtuse on this point. The Medical Examiner was quite clear that at 11 ng/ml of fentanyl he had a potentially fatal overdose. That’s not fucking speculation. It’s the toxicology report. You are pretending it doesn’t exist because it doesn’t fit your agenda. The ME also went on to say while talking to the AG of the state that absent the video he would have ruled it an accidental overdose. If you won’t take the toxicology report or the ME’s own words you have already made up your mind. You are blind to the evidence that doesn’t support your desired outcome. You saw a video and by goodness that’s enough for you.

If you can’t see the ignorance in that I don’t know what to tell you.

SOP is to suffocate a man 4 to 5 min. after passing out from drug overdose then?

That was an incredibly stupid comment. The coroner's report does not support that Floyd was suffocated. Period. That's the professional conclusion of the man in charge of rendering that opinion for the court.

I get it, you don't like Chauvin. You also seem very emotional in the tone of your comments. That doesn't make him guilty of anything. It is highly possible that had Floyd not resisted at all and simply sat in the back of the patrol car, he'd still have died from the extent of the overdose. And I'm sure you'd still be crowing about irresponsible cops had Floyd died in that matter.

Weren't we talking about jury intimidation just a couple pages back? Just heard on the radio that a juror's PR person (???) has been admonished by the judge for taking photos of the jurors in the courtroom. The New York Times is also starting to publish general info about the jurors.

Stacking the deck doesn't even begin to cover this.