quote:

Originally posted by pedropcola:
To your point, countering every lie with facts makes your argument weak. I fail to understand that position, at all.

It may seem counter intuitive until you see it play out in cases.

I worked in the Criminal Court system as a bailiff for 4 years and sat through numerous cases where this is exactly what happens. I've seen defenses put on both ways and been present when lawyers talked to juries after the verdict

There is an advantage in painting the original landscape as it sets the stage in the juries mind, but to pick at small points makes it sound like: Yes,you did...No,I didn't...doesn't play well to the jury. If the Defense can show the jury that the evidence is flawed in a major detail which they've presented as the foundation of their case, the jury then also suspects the rest of the case

quote:

Originally posted by 9mmepiphany:
If the Defense can show the jury that the evidence is flawed in a major detail which they've presented as the foundation of their case, the jury then also suspects the rest of the case

boom. there it is IMO.

the fentanyl / meth in GF's bloodstream is highly problematic.

creates the 'major flaw' in the argument Chauvin's knee definitively killed GF.

-----------------------------------------------

Prosecutors Ask Jurors To Dismiss George Floyd Autopsy Findings

https://jonathanturley.org/202...yd-autopsy-findings/

I previously wrote that the key to conviction in the Derek Chauvin trial (and
avoiding a cascading failure in all four cases) is the autopsy findings and the role of drugs (including fentanyl) in the body of George Floyd. Prosecutors are now asking the jury to effectively dismiss the findings of the only official autopsy in the case and insist, contrary to those findings, that Floyd died from asphyxia, or, lack of oxygen. Some new disclosures may make that claim more difficult for the prosecution.

Last week, special prosecutor Jerry Blackwell admitted to jurors that Hennepin County Chief Medical Examiner Dr. Andrew Baker pointed to cardiac arrest as Floyd’s cause of death. However, he insisted that the state would prove that “was … not a fatal heart event,” but asphyxiation.

It is a bold move since it could invite reasonable doubt on the cause of death. The question is whether a case of manslaughter could have been advanced without the need of opposing the state’s own coroner on such findings. The failure of Chauvin to respond to a medical emergency speaks more to manslaughter than murder but it could be framed consistently with these findings. Instead, the prosecution has asked the jury to effectively reject the coroner’s findings — a risky maneuver.

We have previously discussed key defense elements in the case:

►When called to the scene due to Floyd allegedly passing counterfeit money, Floyd denied using drugs but later said he was “hooping,” or taking drugs.

►The autopsy did not conclude that Floyd died from asphyxiation (though a family pathologist made that finding). Rather, it found “cardiopulmonary arrest while being restrained by law enforcement officer(s).” The state’s criminal complaint against Chauvin said the autopsy “revealed no physical findings that support a diagnosis of traumatic asphyxia or strangulation. Mr. Floyd had underlying health conditions including coronary artery disease and hypertensive heart disease.” He also was COVID-19 positive.

►Andrew Baker, Hennepin County’s chief medical examiner, strongly suggested that the primary cause was a huge amount of fentanyl in Floyd’s system: “Fentanyl at 11 ng/ml — this is higher than (a) chronic pain patient. If he were found dead at home alone & no other apparent causes, this could be acceptable to call an OD (overdose). Deaths have been certified w/levels of 3.” Baker also told investigators that the autopsy revealed no physical evidence suggesting Floyd died of asphyxiation.

►The toxicology report on Floyd’s blood also noted that “in fatalities from fentanyl, blood concentrations are variable and have been reported as low as 3 ng/ml.” Floyd had almost four times the level of fentanyl considered potentially lethal.

►Floyd notably repeatedly said that he could not breathe while sitting in the police cruiser and before he was ever restrained on the ground. That is consistent with the level of fentanyl in his system that can cause “slowed or stopped breathing.”

►Floyd’s lungs were two to three times the normal size and filled with fluid. “Pulmonary edema is a condition caused by excess fluid in the lungs” and it is symptomatic of an opioid overdose, according to Mayo Clinic. However, it should be noted that the Mayo Clinic report also addresses “Non-heart-related (non cardiogenic) pulmonary edema” and “Negative pressure pulmonary edema,” which could be used to support the prosecution’s theory.

►Finally, the restraint using an officer’s knee on an uncooperative suspect was part of the training of officers, and jurors will watch training videotapes employing the same type of restraint as official policy.

What is interesting is that the prosecution is putting on experts like they are making a defense case. It is usually the defense that brings in a host of doctors to challenge official autopsy findings. Here however the state doctor’s findings contradict the prosecutor’s case.

Conversely, Chauvin’s attorney, Eric Nelson, sounds more like the typical prosecutor noting that there is only one official autopsy and one official report on the cause of death. He told the jury “Dr. Baker found none of what are referred to as the telltale signs of asphyxiation. There was no evidence that Mr. Floyd’s airflow was restricted and he did not determine [it] to be a positional or mechanical asphyxia death.”

Nelson can rely on other aspects of the official record. When Baker went over findings in a meeting last December with the Minnesota Attorney General’s Office, he specifically noted that the knee restraint was not likely to produce asphyxiation: “[I]t appeared to Dr. Baker that the pressure to the neck was coming from the back or posterior lateral portions of the back, and none of these strictures would impact breathing or cause loss of consciousness,” said a document summarizing the meeting.” He noted a study that found that placing 200 pounds of weight or more on a healthy person did not have an “observable impact on breathing.”

Instead, Baker cited the drugs in the system as well as the 75-80% narrowing of coronary arteries that “put him at risk for a sudden cardiac arrest.” The record of the meeting states “Dr. Baker offered that one possibility for the pathway of Floyd’s death is that Floyd’s heart was starting to fail because of the stress, drugs, enlarged heart, and [heart] disease . . . He said that once the heart starts to fail … one of the symptoms is the perception that you cannot breathe.”

After those findings were released, Baker’s office had to be put under police protections due to threats to him and his staff.

By focusing the jury on the autopsy report, and asking them to effectively dismiss the conclusions of the only official report, the prosecutors increase the chances of a hung jury and even an acquittal. I previously expressed reservations about the push for murder charges because the case is better suited for a manslaughter case. If a jury feels the prosecutors have over-charged a case, it can produce a loss of credibility in the case. When you add an argument to dismiss the state’s own autopsy findings, you risk magnifying such skepticism or mistrust with jury members.

quote:

He also was COVID-19 positive.

Well, there you go. Died from COVID, not guilty, case closed.

quote:

Originally posted by sigalert:
So is (was) the restraint used allowed by the department?

According to the Chief, no it wasn't allowed. Here's what he said on the stand:

Continuing to kneel on Floyd's neck once he was handcuffed behind his back and lying on his stomach was “in no way, shape or form” part of department policy or training, "and it is certainly not part of our ethics or our values,” Police Chief Medaria Arradondo said.

This was also in the article...

“ The city moved soon after Floyd's death to ban police chokeholds and neck restraints. Arradondo and Mayor Jacob Frey also made several policy changes, including expanding requirements for reporting use-of-force incidents and documenting attempts to de-escalate situations.”

https://www.newsmax.com/newsfr...21/04/05/id/1016425/

So why did the Chief change the policy AFTER the incident?

Jack Posobiec:

Chauvin attorney just asked the chief of police if he was familiar with Camera Perspective Bias.

He said no.

Then att'y showed police bodycam side-by-side with the FB video and chief stated the knee appears to be on Floyd's shoulder blade.

"No further questions"

quote:

Originally posted by sdy:
Jack Posobiec:

Chauvin attorney just asked the chief of police if he was familiar with Camera Perspective Bias.

He said no.

Then att'y showed police bodycam side-by-side with the FB video and chief stated the knee appears to be on Floyd's shoulder blade.

"No further questions"

Oh snap!

quote:

Originally posted by sdy:
Jack Posobiec:

Chauvin attorney just asked the chief of police if he was familiar with Camera Perspective Bias.

He said no.

Then att'y showed police bodycam side-by-side with the FB video and chief stated the knee appears to be on Floyd's shoulder blade.

"No further questions"

Have these side by side photos/video been made available to the public?

Yes, ignore the autopsy report! It doesn't support the narrative! Don't be swayed by facts. Go with emotions and feelings!

quote:

Originally posted by 18DAI:
Yes, ignore the autopsy report! It doesn't support the narrative! Don't be swayed by facts. Go with emotions and feelings!

No autopsy? I contend Floyd is still alive. Case dismissed.

(which makes as much sense as anything)

fuzzy pics. significant (if true) that the chief said it appeared the knee was on the shoulder blade

note the pics are from completely diff angles

pic on left shows Chauvin left side

pic on right shows Chauvin R arm but also left knee

quote:

Originally posted by Flash-LB:

quote:

Originally posted by sigalert:
So is (was) the restraint used allowed by the department?

According to the Chief, no it wasn't allowed. Here's what he said on the stand:

Continuing to kneel on Floyd's neck once he was handcuffed behind his back and lying on his stomach was “in no way, shape or form” part of department policy or training, "and it is certainly not part of our ethics or our values,” Police Chief Medaria Arradondo said.

You need to listen to the rest of this Chief's testimony. This guy is apparently a clown who only has the job because of his non-white last name and skin tone. If I were on that jury I'd have discounted virtually everything that fell out of this clown's piehole.

sdy, thanks for the photo. Is it difficult to tell.

quote:

Originally posted by bigdeal:
You need to listen to the rest of this Chief's testimony. This guy is apparently a clown who only has the job because of his non-white last name and skin tone. If I were on that jury I'd have discounted virtually everything that fell out of this clown's piehole.

If you did that, you'd lose his testimony that Chauvin wasn't kneeling on Floyd's neck

How can the chief say it's not policy when there were pictures of what he did in the handbook? Not saying it was right, but someone posted pictures of it last year.

Chief must be pushing the Woke narrative, ready to shove Chauvin under the bus so the Chief can be popular with certain groups and as a politician. Chief must have no respect from those that serve under him.

quote:

Originally posted by c1steve:
Chief must be pushing the Woke narrative, ready to shove Chauvin under the bus so the Chief can be popular with certain groups and as a politician. Chief must have no respect from those that serve under him.

Well, we know who the Chief works for. I'm sure there are a lot of people in that city that want to see him convicted so they don't need to watch the city burn again.

quote:

I'm sure there are a lot of people in that city that want to see him convicted so they don't need to watch the city burn again

Oh that city is going to burn regardless. Daddy need new Nike's baby! Whether they are victory kicks or just a new set to assuage the agony of da-feet, they gonna get some new ones.

Tossing the officer under the bus might only help limit the damage, but it's coming.

As mentioned, if any of you are relying on main stream media for your information from this case, you’re completely missing what’s really going on.

I predict I’m going to make a hell of a lot of money in overtime this summer.

And the defense hasn’t even started yet.