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US teen beats world #1 chess player (again) Login/Join 
Baroque Bloke
Picture of Pipe Smoker
posted
“The biggest controversy in the chess world took a dramatic new turn on Monday, when the world's top ranked player resigned from a rematch against a teen opponent who unexpectedly beat him earlier this month.

Magnus Carlsen, 31, stunned spectators at the Julius Baer Generation Cup, held virtually on the online chess platform Chess24, by withdrawing after a single move against 19-year-old Hans Niemann.

Announcers at the event were left speechless at the unheard-of resignation, which signaled that Carlsen intended to play in the tournament, but refused to play a match against Niemann.

It comes weeks after Carlsen, the reigning world champion, spectacularly withdrew from the Sinquefield Cup in St. Louis after losing to Niemann, who was playing black…”

Full DailyMail article:
https://mol.im/a/11230979



Serious about crackers.
 
Posts: 7183 | Location: San Diego | Registered: July 26, 2014Reply With QuoteReport This Post
semi-reformed sailor
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I read he (Carlson) left the match because the other guy cheated(s).



"Violence, naked force, has settled more issues in history than has any other factor.” Robert A. Heinlein

“You may beat me, but you will never win.” sigmonkey-2020

“A single round of buckshot to the torso almost always results in an immediate change of behavior.” Chris Baker
 
Posts: 9983 | Location: Temple, Texas! | Registered: October 07, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
PopeDaddy
Picture of x0225095
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Niemann, allegedly, puts radio controlled beads up his ass and cheats by remote control.

I think the hole situation stinks.


0:01
 
Posts: 3956 | Location: ALABAMA | Registered: January 05, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Baroque Bloke
Picture of Pipe Smoker
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quote:
Originally posted by MikeinNC:
I read he (Carlson) left the match because the other guy cheated(s).

There’s no evidence that Niemann cheated.



Serious about crackers.
 
Posts: 7183 | Location: San Diego | Registered: July 26, 2014Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Baroque Bloke
Picture of Pipe Smoker
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by x0225095:
Niemann, allegedly, puts radio controlled beads up his ass and cheats by remote control.

I think the hole situation stinks.

There’s no evidence that Niemann cheated.



Serious about crackers.
 
Posts: 7183 | Location: San Diego | Registered: July 26, 2014Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Oriental Redneck
Picture of 12131
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Pipe Smoker:
quote:
Originally posted by x0225095:
Niemann, allegedly, puts radio controlled beads up his ass and cheats by remote control.

I think the hole situation stinks.

There’s no evidence that Niemann cheated.

Yup, allegations. No proof.


Q






 
Posts: 22922 | Location: TEXAS | Registered: September 04, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
PopeDaddy
Picture of x0225095
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Pipe Smoker:
quote:
Originally posted by x0225095:
Niemann, allegedly, puts radio controlled beads up his ass and cheats by remote control.

I think the hole situation stinks.

There’s no evidence that Niemann cheated.


He has admitted to cheating as a younger player. Does he still cheat? IDK. That’s the allegation….which is why the other player walked away after the 1st move. His form of protest.

I’m not going to personally certify any of that mind you. I’ll just watch safety from the Jeep.


0:01
 
Posts: 3956 | Location: ALABAMA | Registered: January 05, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Baroque Bloke
Picture of Pipe Smoker
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by x0225095:
quote:
Originally posted by Pipe Smoker:
quote:
Originally posted by x0225095:
Niemann, allegedly, puts radio controlled beads up his ass and cheats by remote control.

I think the hole situation stinks.

There’s no evidence that Niemann cheated.


He has admitted to cheating as a younger player. Does he still cheat? IDK. That’s the allegation….which is why the other player walked away after the 1st move. His form of protest.

I’m not going to personally certify any of that mind you. I’ll just watch safety from the Jeep.

Stinks, you say? Nielson is an American, and it stinks to see him slandered without evidence.



Serious about crackers.
 
Posts: 7183 | Location: San Diego | Registered: July 26, 2014Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Imagination and focus
become reality
posted Hide Post
Indeed. No evidence. Kasparov even agrees and stated that Carlson played a poor opening in the previous game.
 
Posts: 6182 | Location: Northwest Indiana | Registered: August 15, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Tinker Sailor Soldier Pie
Picture of Balzé Halzé
posted Hide Post
So how does one cheat at Chess?


~Alan

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Posts: 28519 | Location: Elv. 7,000 feet, Utah | Registered: October 29, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Serenity now!
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quote:
Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:
So how does one cheat at Chess?

That's what I was wondering, especially in competitions like this, where every move is watched, recorded and analyzed.



Ladies and gentlemen, take my advice - pull down your pants and slide on the ice.
ʘ ͜ʖ ʘ
 
Posts: 4820 | Location: Highland, UT | Registered: September 14, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
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Chess player here.

All that Niemann needs is something that notifies him, once a game, that a position is critical. These are super grandmasters, the level and skill they have is incomprehensible for normal players to understand.

Chess by now is almost a solved game (it will never be solved, of course!), and a draw is the most likely outcome. Just that small assistance at a critical point in the match is all that is needed.

Having watched Magnus Carlsen play, I’m sympathetic to him in this. He is by far the best chess player to ever compete, and his anti-cheating stance has been well known.

Hans Niemann cheated, and severely enough to be banned from the largest chess platform (Chess.com). Integrity is something you only have once, and his rise since 2019 is distinctly unusual.
 
Posts: 2169 | Location: S. FL | Registered: October 26, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
PopeDaddy
Picture of x0225095
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Pipe Smoker:
quote:
Originally posted by x0225095:
quote:
Originally posted by Pipe Smoker:
quote:
Originally posted by x0225095:
Niemann, allegedly, puts radio controlled beads up his ass and cheats by remote control.

I think the hole situation stinks.

There’s no evidence that Niemann cheated.


He has admitted to cheating as a younger player. Does he still cheat? IDK. That’s the allegation….which is why the other player walked away after the 1st move. His form of protest.

I’m not going to personally certify any of that mind you. I’ll just watch safety from the Jeep.

Stinks, you say? Nielson is an American, and it stinks to see him slandered without evidence.


You’re the one who posted the article about him being accused of cheating not me. Take your outrage out on THE DAULY MAIL.

Dude vaulted up from relative nowhere to be a tournament winner. Possible. Maybe. Not likely. And his peers have uninvited him from other tournaments.

From what can read in the article, cheating is not altogether uncommon in chess the last 20 years.

Like I said. Allegedly.


0:01
 
Posts: 3956 | Location: ALABAMA | Registered: January 05, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
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I've been following this since it started in St. Louis. I'm a big fan of Carlsen but I'm disappointed in him here. I think he's being immature. Niemann was immature and cheated. He was mature to admit it. He said he cheated when he was 12 and 16 and never in an over-the-board tournament. I choose to believe him. He made a mistake and he'll never be able to play without suspicion again. That's justified. I think he deserves the benefit of the doubt sans concrete proof going forward. He beat Magnus with black pieces in a classical game and that hadn't happened in over 50 games for Carlsen. Niemann deserves credit for that and Carlsen should suck it up. I'm a fan of Niemann but I wish that Carlsen would crush him instead of this babyish behavior.



And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free.
—John 8:32
 
Posts: 2445 | Registered: November 05, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
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quote:
Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:
So how does one cheat at Chess?

The cheating we're talking about here, and what Niemann admitted, concerns online tournaments and using chess engines for aid. In over-the-board, the ridiculous allegations made against Niemann involve bodily inserted items. [I can't even write it--it's so ridiculous.]



And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free.
—John 8:32
 
Posts: 2445 | Registered: November 05, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Imagination and focus
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posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by reloader-1:
Chess player here.

All that Niemann needs is something that notifies him, once a game, that a position is critical. These are super grandmasters, the level and skill they have is incomprehensible for normal players to understand.

Chess by now is almost a solved game (it will never be solved, of course!), and a draw is the most likely outcome. Just that small assistance at a critical point in the match is all that is needed.

Having watched Magnus Carlsen play, I’m sympathetic to him in this. He is by far the best chess player to ever compete, and his anti-cheating stance has been well known.

Hans Niemann cheated, and severely enough to be banned from the largest chess platform (Chess.com). Integrity is something you only have once, and his rise since 2019 is distinctly unusual.


Chess player here too, a somewhat strong one some years ago. One needs more than once a game to recognize a critical position. The opening had been played before and it stands to reason that Niemann had prepared for Carlson.

Niemann admitted to cheating on chess.com. and only after his win against Carlsen was he banned from chess.com. Hmm?

From theguaradian.com.: "The world’s leading expert on cheating in chess, Dr Kenneth Regan, has analysed all of Niemann’s games over the past two years and his conclusion is there is no reason whatsoever to suspect him of cheating."

So Carlsen loses on purpose. What an arrogant ass.
 
Posts: 6182 | Location: Northwest Indiana | Registered: August 15, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Lead slingin'
Parrot Head
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I'm a chess player myself, try to play anywhere from 1-5 games a day, when schedules allow, but I know little about the competitive chess tournament world, so I find this story interesting.

quote:
Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:
So how does one cheat at Chess?


From the article posted in the OP:

How technology has driven an explosion of cheating scandals at the highest level of chess

Aside from bribing opponents or officials, or falsifying tournament results, most cheating scandals in chess involve covertly receiving suggestions on potential moves.

With the explosion of chess computer programs and devices like cell phones and Bluetooth, tournament officials have had to navigate a minefield of challenges in detecting cheaters in recent years.

At the top levels of competition, players are now routinely scanned with metal detectors before playing in tournaments. But as the defenses against cheating evolve, so do the devious schemes of unethical players. Here are some of the five biggest cheating scandals in recent memory:

2010 FIDE Olympiad Tournament

In the tournament at Russia's Khanty-Mansiysk, French players Cyril Marzolo, Arnaud Hauchard and Sébastien Feller were busted colluding in an elaborate cheating scheme.


Sébastien Feller (above) was one of three French players caught colluding in an elaborate cheating scheme in 2010



Arnaud Hauchard



Cyril Marzolo


While Feller played at the board, Marzolo watched the tournament from home and tracked the game using a chess program.

Selecting ideal moves from the chess engine, Marzolo then texted the moves to Hauchard, the team coach, who would then stand or sit in a certain position to signal the move to Feller.

All three players involved were either a Grandmaster or International Master, and they were all handed lengthy suspensions from the FIDE Ethics Committee.

2014 Iasi Open

At the tournament in Romania, 2239-rated player Wesley Vermeulen was caught cheating by consulting a mobile phone in the toilet.

According to the tournament minutes, Vermeulen cooperated with officials and admitted his guilt when confronted.

He was eventually banned for one year by both the Dutch chess federation and FIDE


2015 Dubai Open Chess Tournament


Georgian grandmaster Gaioz Nigalidze was caught cheating in 2015


Georgian grandmaster Gaioz Nigalidze was banned from the tournament after officials discovered him checking a smartphone with chess software in the bathroom in the middle of a game.

Nigalidze's opponent grew suspicious when the grandmaster repeatedly bolted for the bathroom after each move during a crucial part of the game, tournament officials said.

At first, Nigalidze tried to deny the phone was his. But it was logged into a social media account in his name, and had a program running analyzing the moves in his match, officials said.


2016 Moscow Open

In February 2016, Sergey Aslanov was expelled from the Russian tournament for a consulting a smartphone in the toilet.

The phone was found hidden under a loose tile behind a drainpipe the bathroom.

Aslanov admitted to making an error in leaving he phone in the bathroom, but insisted that he was not guilty of cheating.

He was suspended for one year.


2019 Strasbourg Open


Latvian-Czech grandmaster Igors Rausis was caught red-handed (above) cheating during a tournament in 2019 by consulting a smartphone in the bathroom

In July 2019, Latvian-Czech grandmaster Igors Rausis was caught cheating, in another example of using a mobile phone in the bathroom.

Rausis had long been under suspicion after his rating skyrocketed to nearly 2700 in a precipitous rise.

He admitted to having cheated, and announced his retirement from chess.

'I simply lost my mind yesterday,' he explained to Chess.com. 'At least what I committed yesterday is a good lesson, not for me—I played my last game of chess already.'
 
Posts: 6940 | Location: the Centennial state | Registered: August 21, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
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quote:
Originally posted by Ogie:

Chess player here too, a somewhat strong one some years ago. One needs more than once a game to recognize a critical position. The opening had been played before and it stands to reason that Niemann had prepared for Carlson.

Niemann admitted to cheating on chess.com. and only after his win against Carlsen was he banned from chess.com. Hmm?

From theguaradian.com.: "The world’s leading expert on cheating in chess, Dr Kenneth Regan, has analysed all of Niemann’s games over the past two years and his conclusion is there is no reason whatsoever to suspect him of cheating."

So Carlsen loses on purpose. What an arrogant ass.


Ogie, a few things:

Carlsen had never played that Nimzo opening variant before. The closest you can find is a Carlsen-So match in India, 2019, and by move 7 it’s a completely different line.

Once a match, at a critical juncture with a large centipawn swing, that’s all that is needed. By the way, that’s not me saying it… but Carlsen.

Dr. Regan is approaching it from an engine standpoint, i.e. evaluating whether a player is statistically outside range in his/her moves vs expectation. At that level, it’s not needed to follow engine lines perfectly; just enough info to notify you that an opponent has gone off-line or presented an opportunity is enough to gain enough advantage to bring home a win (or a draw from a previously near-lost position).

The most logical explanation for Carlsen’s actions is that he cannot accuse Niemann of cheating, as there is no solid proof (although Niemann admits to cheating on Chess.com). However, he can refuse to play Niemann going forward. The Julius Baer Cup was one that Magnus had contractually agreed to enter, so he had not many other options. However, going forward I expect him to refuse to enter tournaments that Niemann has an invite to.
 
Posts: 2169 | Location: S. FL | Registered: October 26, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
His Royal Hiney
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quote:
So how does one cheat at Chess?


I was a chess player in junior high school. Devoured books and memorized openings, mid-game strategies, and end game tactics. I had an 1800 rating. I think I was good enough that a family friend would drive me to different tournaments.

The cheating in the article that was admitted to was on online games. You cheat by using a computer program that has memorized much more moves than humanly possible and has comprehensive analytical algorithms programmed in. It's easy to do it online since you can just copy the opponents moves and then move as the computer moves.

The way that you can cheat during a live tournament is the same using a computer program or someone really better than you and the other guy. The difficulty is how to get the moves from the expert. In a short story I read, to put an arrogant bully in his place, a chess grandmaster colluded to help a guy who was a weak player beat the bully. The bully knew the guy was cheating but he couldn't prove it. If I remember correctly, the moves were written on the inside of the wrapper lozenges that the guy kept eating throughout the game.



"It did not really matter what we expected from life, but rather what life expected from us. We needed to stop asking about the meaning of life, and instead to think of ourselves as those who were being questioned by life – daily and hourly. Our answer must consist not in talk and meditation, but in right action and in right conduct. Life ultimately means taking the responsibility to find the right answer to its problems and to fulfill the tasks which it constantly sets for each individual." Viktor Frankl, Man's Search for Meaning, 1946.
 
Posts: 18016 | Location: The Free State of Arizona - Ditat Deus | Registered: March 24, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Lead slingin'
Parrot Head
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@ 5 minute demo of cheating at cards Wink


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8kDdIL0tSeI
 
Posts: 6940 | Location: the Centennial state | Registered: August 21, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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