https://www.newsmax.com/world/...22/11/15/id/1096522/

Not good!

RMD

A NATO country. Poland aint going to take that shit

Of course Russia is denying it.

quote:

Originally posted by BigSwede:
Poland aint going to take that shit

Well, that, and there's still people in that country who were alive the last time Russians killed Poles in a war, many more who grew up under the Iron Curtain. Not a lot of love lost there.

I haven't been following the news (in years...) so I plead ignorance:

Does Russia have an on-going beef with Poland or is this more likely a mistake/loose cannon thing?

No idea of the reality of the situation… But the way I heard it was that the Ukrainians were shooting at incoming, hit an incoming missile and it dropped into Poland.

Dunno.

quote:

Originally posted by PHPaul:
I haven't been following the news (in years...) so I plead ignorance:

Does Russia have an on-going beef with Poland or is this more likely a mistake/loose cannon thing?

Could be some of both. They've been at it on and off for about 460 years.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...oland_against_Russia

C’mon guys, it was just an accident; just let Russia keep pounding on Ukraine and they’ll promise not to let it happen again.

quote:

Originally posted by PHPaul:
I haven't been following the news (in years...) so I plead ignorance:

Does Russia have an on-going beef with Poland or is this more likely a mistake/loose cannon thing?

Poland borders Ukraine. Russia fires missiles at Ukraine and a couple hit Poland. Mistake, intentional or something else take your pick.

This becomes an issue because Poland in a member of Nato, unlike Ukraine.

quote:

Originally posted by comet24:

Poland borders Ukraine. Russia fires missiles at Ukraine and a couple hit Poland. Mistake, intentional or something else take your pick.

This becomes an issue because Poland in a member of Nato, unlike Ukraine.

Ah. Should've checked a map, had only a general idea of where the two countries were in relation to each other.

Mistake/technical failure seems like the most likely suspect given the (apparently) sorry state of the Russian military these days.

A co-worker just messaged me a YT video with the title "World War 3 Just Started". Told her it's what the war mongers want, and they will hype up anything, but there will be no WW 3.

quote:

Originally posted by P220 Smudge:
They've been at it on and off for about 460 years.

The 1919-1921 episode, the Poles actually came out on top.

Of course, the Russkies were distracted by their Civil War at the time.

quote:

Originally posted by PHPaul:
I haven't been following the news (in years...) so I plead ignorance:

Does Russia have an on-going beef with Poland or is this more likely a mistake/loose cannon thing?

Russia's pissed because Poland's supported Ukraine. Russia's also used up and not been able to replace a lot of their more sophisticated guided missiles.

Either way, it only makes sense to contain the violence and Poland has every right as a sovereign nation to protect its citizens' lives from unprovoked military attacks - whether intentional or not.

It's time for NATO to set up and enforce no-fly and no-fire zones for the safety of its constituent members' citizens. If this conflict is allowed to spill over borders then a lot of innocent people are going to be killed just because Putin thinks it's important to his image that no one thinks he gives a damn.

What do you think will happen when NATO (most likely an American or British contingent) shoots down a Russian aircraft?

I think they will just set up a couple of Patriot batteries to intercept incoming missiles.

At times like this it's critical that there be private dialog between all the leaders to make clear where lines are drawn. I'm worried about this because who's going to represent the US, Biden? Kamala? Who's even in charge of our country?

Very bad indeed.

Not really

During WW2, Switzerland was inadvertently bombed on seventy occasions by Allied bomber formations who thought they were striking Germany. It didn't lead to an international crisis. Both sides understood that shit happens in war, and the risk is even higher to the nearby neighbors of belligerents.

(Though after WW2, the US government paid Switzerland $14.4 million - equivalent to $222 million today - in reparations for the damage and deaths caused by the mistakes.)


Russia didn't intentionally attack a couple of Polish farmers working in their grain fields. If they wanted to "send Poland a message about their support of Ukraine", that isn't how they'd go about it. Instead, it was either a straight up navigation error on the missiles' part due to faulty antiquated equipment, or as posited earlier, a result of Ukrainian attempts to shoot down the Russian missiles that then caused them to veer over the border as they crashed.


That is, if they even were Russian missiles. The media gets stories wrong all the time. And people are panicky creatures, even when they don't live directly adjacent to an active war zone. At this point, it's entirely possible that Wladislaw and Mikolaj were just plowing their wheat field and accidentally ignited an underground gas line, then seeing the tractor engulfed in a fireball the neighbors started hollering about how the Russians must have bombed them, with the media running with the story before getting any verification because they knew that headline would get them some clicks and drive extra ad revenue. (I'm being a bit facetious, but only just...)

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
What do you think will happen when NATO (most likely an American or British contingent) shoots down a Russian aircraft?

I think this keeps Russian airplanes and missiles out of areas where that's likely to occur. If not, then the Russians can hardly claim that a legitimate act of self-defense justifies WWIII when their own errors made self-defense necessary.

Sooner rather than later the Russians can be expected to insist that the missiles' landing in Poland be ignored because "shit happens". Well, if the Russians are in the wrong air space and get caught, then then Poland (or any NATO power) is also entitled to argue "shit happens". The difference here is that NATO would be acting to keep Russian shit from happening rather than attacking Russia or directly intervening in the fighting.