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Nullus Anxietas |
This ^^^^^ However, perhaps I might reasonably be excused for suspecting the French government will go out of its way to avoid labeling it "arson." "America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system,,,, but too early to shoot the bastards." -- Claire Wolfe "If we let things terrify us, life will not be worth living." -- Seneca the Younger, Roman Stoic philosopher | |||
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always with a hat or sunscreen |
A friend who lives in Europe said that " France was on the verge of a civil war before this. If this were an act of arson by muslims, there would be shooting in the streets." So yeah, the government there is motivated to cover things up. Certifiable member of the gun toting, septuagenarian, bucket list workin', crazed retiree, bald is beautiful club! USN (RET), COTEP #192 | |||
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| Member |
I'd bet that even Inspector Jacques Clouseau would be able to solve this caper! __________ "I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal labotomy." | |||
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| Ethics, antics, and ballistics  |
I'm also suspicious of the quickness and certainty with which they are trying to reassure everyone that it was not foul play while saying in the same breath the investigation will be long and complicated. If this truly turns out to be an accident, they will probably still go above and beyond to protect the identity of the individual(s) responsible for fear of their lives and livelihoods at the hands of those wanting to hold them accountable because there is no possible way they could ever make up for their deeds and/or carelessness in the eyes of many. However, I'm with those that believe they know more than they are letting on and likely doing it for the sake of Holy week and Easter. Trying to avert another Holy war and civil war in general is most certainly on the minds of those in the French government at this time should the facts not fit the evidence. The question is why were their two alarms 23 minutes apart with a first not revealing anything and the second one being when the fire was already reportedly out of control, and why did it take so long to respond to put out the fire aside from tourists being in the way? Maybe some other type of threat was reported to authorities to slow the response to the fire? We all want the truth, but it is hard not to suspect, speculate, and make assuptions given what we do know and what is being said and reported, as well as how it is being said and reported. In the end, God will prevail as will his followers, and I truly hope and pray that the building can be restored to at least closely resemble its former glory. I feel both anger and sadness for France and for all of us who respect and appreciate what Notre Dame represents in all its aspects. -Dtech __________________________ "I've got a life to live, people to love, and a God to serve!" - sigmonkey "Strive not to be a success, but rather to be of value." - Albert Einstein "A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition" ― Rudyard Kipling | |||
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delicately calloused |
Dragons. You’re a lying dog-faced pony soldier | |||
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| Lawyers, Guns and Money  |
Yeah... all they had to do was say "It's under investigation." and leave it at that. Everything else is just spin (lies, intended to deflect). "Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible." -- Justice Janice Rogers Brown "The United States government is the largest criminal enterprise on earth." -rduckwor | |||
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Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici |
They're soliciting design proposals. Waiting for the one with a large, gold dome on top. _________________________ NRA Endowment Member _________________________ "Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." -- C.S. Lewis | |||
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This is much like what the Dems have been trying to do to Trump, attack him with wild and phony stories, anything and everything they have to try and regain power. -c1steve | |||
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Go Vols! |
I know little about the place. Does anyone know just how much of it was from the 1200s? I'm guessing there's been a lot of reconstruction, additions, etc. over all those years. | |||
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| Lawyers, Guns and Money |
It's been going on for centuries... The big mystery is why they continue to welcome those who wish to destroy them. Diabolical: Islam’s Past and Present Attacks on European Churches  In this Tuesday, Oct. 30, 2018, photo soldiers patrol at the Notre Dame cathedral in Paris, France. (AP Photo/Michel Euler) As explained in this recent article, all around Western Europe, churches are under attack. Along with arson attempts, typically—and rather with diabolical intent—altars are desecrated, crucifixes broken, statues mocked and/or beheaded, and the churches set aflame. Sometimes fecal matter is smeared on the churches. Last February in France, for instance, vandals plundered and used human excrement to draw a cross on the Notre-Dame des Enfants Church in Nimes; consecrated bread was found thrown outside among garbage. One week later, vandals desecrated and smashed crosses and statues at Saint-Alain Cathedral in Lavaur; they mangled the arms of a crucified Christ in a mocking manner and an altar cloth was burned. While European authorities and media usually obfuscate over the identity of the desecrators, demographics offer a clue: true to “Islam’s Rule of Numbers,” Western European nations that have large Muslim migrant populations tend to witness the most attacks. Thus in France, which has one of if not the largest Muslim populations in Western Europe, two churches are attacked every day. The same situation prevails in Germany, which also has an immense Muslim population. In Bavaria and the Alps alone, some 200 churches have been attacked and many crosses broken: “Police are currently dealing with church desecrations again and again,” reads one November 2017 report, before it says, “The perpetrators are often youthful rioters with a migration background.” Before Christmas 2016, in the North Rhine-Westphalia region of Germany—where more than a million Muslims reside—some 50 public Christian statues (including of Jesus) were beheaded and crucifixes broken. In 2015, following the arrival of another million Muslim migrants to Dülmen, a local newspaper said “not a day goes by” without attacks on Christian statues. Numerical deductions aside, the fact is, the desecration of churches has for centuries been a Muslim trademark—a sort of “Islam was here.” As documented in my recent book, Sword and Scimitar: Fourteen Centuries of War between Islam and the West, whenever Muslims invaded Christian nations, untold thousands of churches were ritually desecrated and despoiled, their crosses and other Christian symbols systematically broken. Think what ISIS does but on an exponential level—and not for a handful of years but for over a millennium. The patterns between past and present attacks are virtually identical. Reminiscent of the recent drawing of a cross in fecal matter on a French church, in 1147 in Portugal, Muslims displayed “with much derision the symbol of the cross. They spat upon it and wiped the feces from their posteriors with it.” Decades earlier in Jerusalem, Muslims “spat on them [crucifixes] and did not even refrain from urinating on them in the sight of all.” Even that supposedly “magnanimous” sultan, Saladin, commanded “whoever saw that the outside of a church was white, to cover it with black dirt,” and ordered “the removal of every cross from atop the dome of every church in the provinces of Egypt” (all quotes from primary sources documented in Sword and Scimitar, pp. 171, 145, 162). From the start, the intentional, widespread, and systematic targeting of churches and other Christian symbols prompted some to see Muslim invaders as motivated by a diabolical animus. For Anastasius of Sinai (630–701), the heroes of the seventh-century Arab conquests of the then Christian-majority Middle East were “perhaps even worse than the demons.” After all, “the demons are frequently much afraid of the mysteries of Christ, I mean his holy body [the Eucharist], the cross... and many other things. But these demons of flesh trample all that under their feet, mock it, set fire to it, destroy it” (Sword and Scimitar, p. 27). Interestingly, nowadays, whenever a church attacker is exposed as a migrant, authorities and media try to downplay the incident by saying he is suffering from mental health issues (modern-day parlance for what was once seen as demonization). Others still rely on the more antiquated interpretation. During the memorial service for Father Hamel—an 85-year-old priest slaughtered by “Allahu Akbar” shouting Muslims while holding mass in his own church in France—Archbishop Dominique Lebrun called on those “who are tormented by diabolical violence, you who are drawn to kill by a demonic, murderous madness, pray to God to free you from the devil’s grip.” Before his murderer carved his throat, Fr. Hamel himself had reportedly shouted, “Be gone, Satan!” Considering the descriptions of some Muslim assailants, such “otherworldly” accusations are not farfetched. In France, April 2015, a Muslim man dressed in traditional Islamic garb damaged and desecrated more than 200 Christian gravestones and crosses in a cemetery (just as ISIS and other Muslim “radicals” are known to do in Libya, Iraq, Iran, and elsewhere). After he was apprehended, authorities said, “The man repeats Muslim prayers over and over, he drools and cannot be communicated with: his condition has been declared incompatible with preliminary detention.” Similarly, around Christmas 2016 in Italy, another Muslim migrant who said he “wanted to destroy Christian symbols” set a church nativity scene aflame. Police fought hard to restrain the man, who was described as suffering from a “visible psycho-physical crisis.” In other words, not much has changed: past and present, Muslims—motivated by what has long been deemed a diabolical animus—attacked and desecrated churches, crosses, and other Christian symbols. The only difference is that, whereas Europeans used to prevent them entry, and thus safeguarded their sacred sites, today they welcome them in with open arms. Note: For a comprehensive and well-documented overview of what Muslims did to churches throughout history, see Ibrahim’s book, Sword and Scimitar: Fourteen Centuries of War between Islam and the West https://pjmedia.com/faith/diab...n-european-churches/ "Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible." -- Justice Janice Rogers Brown "The United States government is the largest criminal enterprise on earth." -rduckwor | |||
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| Gone but Together Again. Dad & Uncle  |
According to MarketWatch this morning, I just read they did NOT have any insurance for Notre Dame. | |||
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| Member |
Self insured? P229 | |||
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| Gone but Together Again. Dad & Uncle |
link to article: https://www.msn.com/en-us/mone...0isc?ocid=spartanntp Per the article it says the State of France is self insured and they have no insurance. | |||
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Bad dog! |
It's unfortunate that the French government will be in charge of restoration. You can bet on it: they will have an adjoined museum that "recognizes and appreciates" all the world's religions, or even an adjoined mosque. For a bit of levity in this catastrophe, it was inevitable: people are seeing the face of Jesus in the flames! Not making that up. https://heavy.com/news/2019/04...-flames-fire-photos/ ______________________________________________________ "You get much farther with a kind word and a gun than with a kind word alone." | |||
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| Freethinker |
How much would insurance for full replacement cost? And if not full replacement, then why insurance at all? And even if such a cost was feasible, how could something like an ancient cathedral be replaced if it had been totally destroyed? I must believe that such factors were part of what was considered if anyone was thinking about insurance. Plus if first responses are any indication, it may be that donations will cover most of the costs of repairs anyway. “I can’t give you brains, but I can give you a diploma.” — The Wizard of Oz This life is a drill. It is only a drill. If it had been a real life, you would have been given instructions about where to go and what to do. | |||
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| wishing we were congress |
https://nypost.com/2019/04/16/...fore-fire-was-found/ Paris Prosecutor Rémy Heitz revealed that an alarm first rang out at 6:20 p.m. Monday, but workers who went looking for a fire didn’t find anything. The blaze that ultimately ravaged the 850-year-old landmark was finally located in the ceiling only after another siren went off 23 minutes later, he said. Sources told Le Parisien that a computer bug gave the wrong location when the first alarm sounded. The cathedral’s rector, Monsignor Patrick Chauvet, said Tuesday that the building keeps a firefighter on site, but Heitz’s office told the Washington Post that it was cathedral workers who went in search of the conflagration. Two security agents discovered the fire, sources told Le Parisien, by which time the flames were about nine feet high. The blaze broke out at the base of the spire, the paper reported. Heitz said there is no evidence of arson and that investigators are working under the assumption that the blaze was an accident. | |||
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safe & sound |
So there's no evidence it was intentional, and although he phrases it differently, there's no evidence it was accidental either. | |||
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| Lawyers, Guns and Money |
^^^ right! So why are investigators working under the assumption either way? Just investigate, and follow whatever evidence you find, without any assumptions! "Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible." -- Justice Janice Rogers Brown "The United States government is the largest criminal enterprise on earth." -rduckwor | |||
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| Bad dog! |
No doubt the government thinks they need to avoid talk of arson for the sake of domestic peace. There must be many citizens who are fed up with radical Muslims, and very close to, as an earlier poster put it, civil war. But the government's tactic-- "no evidence of arson"-- is an example of kicking the can down the road. The Islamists in France will continue desecrating churches, and will be emboldened to attack more violently after the success of Notre Dame. At some point, citizens will take justice into their own hands. ______________________________________________________ "You get much farther with a kind word and a gun than with a kind word alone." | |||
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| Lawyers, Guns and Money |
There seems to be an increasing number of French citizens growing sick and tired of being lied to by the French government.  "Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible." -- Justice Janice Rogers Brown "The United States government is the largest criminal enterprise on earth." -rduckwor | |||
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