quote:

Originally posted by RAMIUS:

quote:

Originally posted by HayesGreener:
Medical marijuana has legitimate uses but having seen the effects of chronic MJ use many times over, I am convinced that states will rue the day they made recreational marijuana legal.

Just curious...What are the effects of chronic MJ use that you've personally seen?

I can testify to a couple, from first-hand experience and direct observation.

In a place far, far away, long, long ago, I got into the habit of partaking regularly. Then I noticed, one day, that after that first toke the rest of my day would be wasted.

So I stopped. Entirely, actually.

Then there's the guy I know personally. Well, used to, because I never see him any more. I never see him any more because a guy that used to be liked by everybody has turned into a raging asshole with questionable ethics. (I'm not the only friend he lost.) I tried for the longest time to figure out what happened. Finally it occurred to me: Pot. He became a very heavy pot-smoker. Still functional. Still held down a job and did it well. But an asshole unless he was buzzed.

Neither of those experiences and observations has changed my opinion that pot should be legalized. People abuse all manner of things. If we outlawed everything people abused there'd be precious little left.

And there's no question in my mind the War On Some Drugs has done more harm than good.

It's a documented fact that smoking marijuana turns your brain into a chicken egg. Check it out.

I prefer mine over easy, gooey center so I can sop up the yellow egg gravy with a country biscuit or some plain white toast.....

I think "conservatarians" have a chance to move the political needle. They're hybrid conservative/libertarians which seem to be increasing in numbers, as I understand it. I consider myself one.

I also think a lot of generally non-libertarian conservatives, like my 81-year-old mother, are now libertarian on the high-profile social issues like weed and sexual orientation.

quote:

Originally posted by sigcrazy7:

quote:

Originally posted by Ryanp225:
Replace "pot" with "firearms" and see how you feel.
So one person owning something you don't agree with is grounds for the gov to step in a ban it?
Some of y'all have a lot of soul searching to do if you even care about being honest.

The ability to smoke pot for recreational use is not an effective bulwark against tyranny, and as such is not enshrined as a fundamental right in our founding documents. Your comparison is without merit.

I've read some surveys indicate the initiative in Utah may pass. I find that difficult to believe, but if it does, and if the law expands in time to recreational use, it's going to impact many things.

And then the states voted to approve the 16th Amendment. They didn't have to. They got what they voted for.

quote:

Originally posted by chellim1:

<snip>

Federal tax collectors, Madison assured everyone, "will be principally on the seacoast, and not very numerous."

quote:

Originally posted by rusbro:
I think "conservatarians" have a chance to move the political needle. They're hybrid conservative/libertarians which seem to be increasing in numbers, as I understand it. I consider myself one.

How does a "conservatarian" differ from a libertarian, since things like pot legalization is definitely not conservative?

quote:

Originally posted by rusbro:
I also think a lot of generally non-libertarian conservatives, like my 81-year-old mother, are now libertarian on the high-profile social issues like weed and sexual orientation.

IOW: She's now a libertarian that prefers to think of herself as a conservative.

That describes a great many here on Sigforum, from what I've seen.

Actually, they're not even really libertarians, because far-libertarian libertarians are so small-government they're nearly classical anarchists. Many here are actually closer to classical liberals than libertarians.

But I'd never "accuse" anybody here of that, because, y'know, "liberal" is a Bad Word.

It represents a difficult problem for Employers. How long before your shift must you stop smoking or ingesting? How does an Employer test daily or can he for a legal drug?

Are all jurisdictions in your State prepared to use a b&w cut and dried test roadside? Is an equivalent test to a breathalyzer available? At what cost, portability? How long to train every LE officer on the road.

quote:

How does a "conservatarian" differ from a libertarian, since things like pot legalization is definitely not conservative?

Actually, they're not even really libertarians, because far-libertarian libertarians are so small-government they're nearly classical anarchists. Many here are actually closer to classical liberals than libertarians.

It depends on what you are trying to conserve....

See my post bottom of page 3.

quote:

Get the Federal Government out of it and let the states decide.

That's where I stand on most things.
The Founders certainly did not intend to create an omnipotent federal government to regulate the activities of citizens...

quote:

Originally posted by sigcrazy7:

quote:

Originally posted by Ryanp225:
Replace "pot" with "firearms" and see how you feel.
So one person owning something you don't agree with is grounds for the gov to step in a ban it?
Some of y'all have a lot of soul searching to do if you even care about being honest.

The ability to smoke pot for recreational use is not an effective bulwark against tyranny, and as such is not enshrined as a fundamental right in our founding documents. Your comparison is without merit.

You completely missed the point I was trying to make. I was talking about the hypocrisy of speaking of personal responsibility and taking ownership of ones actions.
Did Kevin Bacon liberate you dance-less town yet?

I am not an expert but when you inhale cigarette smoke it causes cancer. Why wouldnt marijuana smoke? Seems to me it will. Who wants to own that? I legalized smoking pot now you have lung cancer.

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
We can't decriminalize marijuana becausse KevinCW knows shitty people who use it. Therefore, all people who use marijuana are criminal scum and if we decriminalize marijuana, everyone will end up being criminal scum.

Or something like that. He can explain it to you. I guess.

That was not my intent for people to take out of my post. I will try to do better next time to explain it.

quote:

Originally posted by Captain Morgan:
I am not an expert but when you inhale cigarette smoke it causes cancer. Why wouldnt marijuana smoke? Seems to me it will. Who wants to own that? I legalized smoking pot now you have lung cancer.

So legalize edibles but not smokables? It seems like everything we take into our bodies, no matter how we take it in, does something bad to us if taken to excess.

quote:

Originally posted by Redford1970:
It represents a difficult problem for Employers. How long before your shift must you stop smoking or ingesting? How does an Employer test daily or can he for a legal drug?

It presents absolutely no problem whatsoever for employers. You either accept the terms of employment or you don't. In my case, I know that I cannot smoke the MJ ever, even in my off-time, since I am subject to random testing. My job just happens to be more important to me than getting high every once in a while. That's just the shakes. Legal weed or illegal weed, it doesn't change anything in regards to one's employment.

quote:

Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:

quote:

Originally posted by Redford1970:
It represents a difficult problem for Employers. How long before your shift must you stop smoking or ingesting? How does an Employer test daily or can he for a legal drug?

It presents absolutely no problem whatsoever for employers. You either accept the terms of employment or you don't. In my case, I know that I cannot smoke the MJ ever, even in my off-time, since I am subject to random testing. My job just happens to be more important to me than getting high every once in a while. That's just the shakes. Legal weed or illegal weed, it doesn't change anything in regards to one's employment.

I'm curious. How sensitive is a drug test, and how much second-hand smoke can you handle before it causes you to fail? I'd suppose that legalization would bring a greater chance of encountering it second-hand. Can an evening at a concert cause you to inhale enough to trigger a positive?

It's a legitimate question for me, since I have no experience with illegal drugs and such.

quote:

Originally posted by Captain Morgan:
I am not an expert but when you inhale cigarette smoke it causes cancer. Why wouldnt marijuana smoke? Seems to me it will. Who wants to own that? I legalized smoking pot now you have lung cancer.

Cannabis is not tobacco, and does not have carcinogenic compounds found in tobacco. Burning plant matter does however cause toxic byproducts to form. Health conscience individuals ingest edibles or vape at temps below combustion. 392 degrees Fahrenheit is where toxic compounds start up.
NSFW? - Cannabinoid boiling point chart

Micro-dosing cannabis, less is more with cannabis as one does not build up a tolerance. Comparable to sipping a finger or two of fine scotch, one or two breaths of vapor is enough for enjoyable effects and medicinal properties.
NSFW? - Dr Dustin Sulak The Resensitization Process

I say decriminalize pot at the Federal level, let states decide.

Remove dope/stupor issue voters and support from the left.

Without the cannibis platform, you may see a drop in voter attendance.

quote:

Originally posted by springnr:

quote:

Originally posted by Captain Morgan:
I am not an expert but when you inhale cigarette smoke it causes cancer. Why wouldnt marijuana smoke? Seems to me it will. Who wants to own that? I legalized smoking pot now you have lung cancer.

Cannabis is not tobacco, and does not have carcinogenic compounds found in tobacco. Burning plant matter does however cause toxic byproducts to form. Health conscience individuals ingest edibles or vape at temps below combustion. 392 degrees Fahrenheit is where toxic compounds start up.
NSFW? - Cannabinoid boiling point chart

Micro-dosing cannabis, less is more with cannabis as one does not build up a tolerance. Comparable to sipping a finger or two of fine scotch, one or two breaths of vapor is enough for enjoyable effects and medicinal properties.
NSFW? - Dr Dustin Sulak The Resensitization Process

American Lung Association states it contains many of the same carcinogens as Tobacco.

http://www.lung.org/stop-smoki...and-lung-health.html

We were taught in Med School that smoking one joint delivers roughly the same amount of toxins to the lungs as an entire pack of regular cigarettes.

cc

I have read that pot has 20 times the tar as tobacco!

quote:

Originally posted by BillyBonesNY:
Without the cannibis platform, you may see a drop in voter attendance.

Or they'll be so high on voting day they won't be able to drive to or find the voting location