States rights issue. I vote yes and I'm also of an opinion it should have never been illegal, again a states rights issue. Had it been treated as a weed, which it is, pot to get stoned would be nowhere near as prevalent as it is today but hemp fiber/oil would have had countless industrial uses and medicinal use. Follow the money.

A percentage of folks misuse alcohol, firearms, Etc. and some folks will misuse cannabis.

Cannabis provides a medical assist for healthy people too. Herbs like turmeric damp down inflation, Etc. Picture North Koreans receiving information on the devastation capitalist societies all their life. This is akin to how many that oppose cannabis formed their views on cannabis.

To preface a following comment on Sessions and cannabis.
Trump winning - likely/possible truths:
The DNC and RNC are in bed together when it comes to anyone affecting their power. Paul Ryan received the house speaker position to narrow the candidate field during the debates. The narrow field of candidates for Trump's cabinet positions was due to qualified people being warned off. Mueller is driving that warning home to those that ignored the warning. Session's, was RNC placed to neuter Trump's power and effectiveness. Mueller's raid on Trump's laywer was to garner material to make an example of Trump once he leaves office.

Sessions is being restrained by Trump too, two way street. Sessions has worked many years in the public arena. Human nature includes the desire to leave a legacy after years of labor. Sessions views cannabis as evil incarnate.
Federal law on firearms as it stands now offers one a dire choice. Cannabis or your second amendment.
Liberal prosecutors would team with him to incarcerate you. The second amendment only reiterates my rights as a human, the ramifications are nothing to sneeze at.

Edited to cleanup sp

This message has been edited. Last edited by: springnr,

I don't think the base is ready yet.

Here in CO we have a caucus system. For the last few election cycles I have been elected as a delegate to the various assemblies (State, County, Congressional District, etc...) Generally, the people that go to these things are older than me, and represent the base. I am 45. It has been my experience that they are just not willing to accept recreational MJ yet.

For example, at the County assembly this year our Senator, Cory Gardner attended. If you remember, a few months ago Cory was holding up Senate nominations due to Sessions opinion about legalized MJ. I talked to many people at the assembly who were furious at this. They are very much against legalizing MJ.

Personally, I am not against it, but I chose to pick my battles. Rather than getting into an argument/discussion at the assembly about the pros and cons, I just smiled and nodded in agreement.

I am not saying everyone is against it. If you talk with the base, you will probably find that most are against it, at least I did. It's going to take a lot more support than what we have now.

I remember in college I had to take a public speaking class. 3 topics were off limits. Gun control, abortion and drug legalization. The reasoning was both sides of each issue were very dug into their opinions and it was nearly impossible to change a persons mind on those topics.

It would be pretty damn funny to watch the Libs lose their minds over it.

It’d kinda be like this, but for weed:

quote:

Originally posted by HayesGreener:
Medical marijuana has legitimate uses but having seen the effects of chronic MJ use many times over, I am convinced that states will rue the day they made recreational marijuana legal.

Still less harmful to the individual and society than alcohol. If we are going to let .gov tell us what we can or can't have at least let's have some consistency and ban ALL intoxicating substances.

quote:

Originally posted by craglawnmanor:
In a way, I'm surprised that more places have not legalized the over the counter sale of commercially grown weed. Solely because of the potential windfall in taxes that could be collected.
I've always thought that most governments could not resist a new source for tax revenue.

Funny, I remember saying that very same logical thing in around 1971!

I honestly don't know why weed is still mostly illegal. It seriously makes no sense compared to the dangerous side effects of many prescription medications.

I know there's a stigma attached to it, but people and the federal government need to get over it. It's really nothing compared to so many other dangerous substances.

I'm a Pharmaceutical Rep and I sell medications for pain. Even though the medications I represent are very helpful to people, there's a shit ton of dangerous side effects that come along with them...plus you can expect your insurance company to pay $3000 per month for the rest of your life if you get prescribed my stuff.

I can see why pharma companies wouldn't want weed to be legal because marijuana is cheap and it works for MANY conditions. People who know nothing about weed think marijuana is just one thing...getting high. There's so many different strains out there now that provide a wide range of benefits (pain management, anxiety, relief from gastro disorders, insomnia, depression, OA, RA...the list goes on and on).

Why take in man made chemicals with known dangerous side effects when you can just smoke/eat/vape a natural herb?

I personally know 4 people who are benefitting from medical marijuana who have suffered from conditions that normal medication would not treat. Since getting prescribed medical weed, their quality of life has changed exponentially.

This is mentioned over and over in regard to recreational use, compared to alcohol, marijuana is harmless.

Weed chills, alcohol kills.

Freedom and responsibility. If we are to be free, we must also be responsible and let that standard be applied individually. Free to smoke weed. Cause damage from misuse and be fully held responsible for restoring the damage. I'm good with that.

We can't decriminalize marijuana becausse KevinCW knows shitty people who use it. Therefore, all people who use marijuana are criminal scum and if we decriminalize marijuana, everyone will end up being criminal scum.

Or something like that. He can explain it to you. I guess.

The feds created this "problem" in 1970, and need to seriously take a harder look at what should and should not be considered schedule 1 drugs.

How the hell is cocaine a schedule 2 drug?

If legalized, hide the Little Debbie snacks.
Criminals give pot a bad rap.

quote:

Originally posted by HayesGreener:
Medical marijuana has legitimate uses but having seen the effects of chronic MJ use many times over, I am convinced that states will rue the day they made recreational marijuana legal.

Just curious...What are the effects of chronic MJ use that you've personally seen?

quote:

Originally posted by HayesGreener:
Medical marijuana has legitimate uses but having seen the effects of chronic MJ use many times over, I am convinced that states will rue the day they made recreational marijuana legal.

For many years, on the subject of illegal drugs, I took a libertarian attitude. Mind you, I don't partake myself and see drug use as a waste of money and health. At one point I was in favor of legalizing all drugs, with the caveat that any who partake be held wholly responsible for their behavior and actions while using the drugs with no public money allocated for their criminal or health issues.

I'm not in favor of sin taxes for any legal product- alcohol, tobacco, guns, drugs and when the legalization of pot in Colorado came to a vote I didn't like the bill as written due to the exorbitant way in which it was taxed...BUT thinking that the voters wouldn't actually pass it I thought that I would send a message of freedom and limited government by actually voting for it. I was a bit surprised when the legalization of pot was voted in.

Since pot has been legalized I've seen the repercussions on a local and weekly, if not daily basis.

A while back I took a temporary part-time job working as a booth attendant at a public parking garage. The booth was near a busy downtown area with lots of car and pedestrian traffic and was situated near a small quaint park. Mind you while pot is legal in Colorado, several municipalities have elected to not allow its sale in their jurisdiction. Also, it is prohibited to smoke pot in public, and yet in a city where it is not legal to buy I would see/ smell several who would smoke it in public, often in the park. My first day on the job we had one guy walk up to our booth and ask if we would mind if he smoked pot in the park with his friend. While I appreciated that he was courteous enough to at least ask, I didn't want to smell or otherwise be affected by it and told him I couldn't tell him what to do I didn't want to be near it.

Public smoking, often by homeless people, although they were certainly not the only ones. On a weekly basis I would encounter drivers/ passengers leaving the garage who would come to the booth freshly stoned. Why some felt the need to get stoned before driving I couldn't understand but there was no mistaking the pungent smell coming from their vehicles or, in some cases the bloodshot eyes, as well as the general confusion and giggling they displayed over a relatively simple transaction.

And its not just one park. I've seen and smelled pot being smoked in several parks and numerous other public places.

Since pot has been legalized in Colorado:

- I've noticed a significant increase in the homeless population and all the problems they bring to an area.

- A significant increase in the number of drivers impaired by pot while driving. The driver of a pot tourism bus was just arrested for being impaired while driving the bus while his passengers smoked pot.

- A number of deaths attributed directly to pot, including at least a few cases of violent death and murder. These are largely due to over-doses on extra potent marijuana edibles like sweets, chocolate, candies... as well as the synthetic forms of pot.

- An increase in the number of children who show up in emergency rooms or in school either on edible pot or who brought it to school. They see their parents eating the pot candy and grab some for themselves and their friends.

- Illegal grows. Some are small operations, but there have been several large illegal pot grow operations, many operated by drug cartels, including some from outside the U.S.

- Whether in an apartment or home, having to smell pot being smoked by a nearby neighbor. Yes, this occured before it was legalized but there is no doubt that it happens with much greater frequency now.

When I voted to legalize pot I has visions of freedom, states rights, removing just one example of government over reach and intrusion into our lives. I had visions of taking the tax revenue from pot and putting it to good use by reducing our state debt and improving our infrastructure. I had thought that those who chose to smoke pot would be so grateful for this new found freedom that they would exercise good judgement and would courteously and responsibly use pot only in their basements and home garages and backyards and would take care not to allow children to have access to it.

Well, as far as tax revenue, there is no doubt that the state is taking in HUGE sums. But, while pot tax revenue was supposed to go to schools the Democrats still show up every election year with new tax increase proposals to fund public schools and several district's teachers recently had walk outs that closed down schools while they protested for more school funding and better pay.

Infrastructure? We have many portions of interstate/ state/ local highways and roads in need of major maintenance and improvement. One portion of the local interstate that needs to be widened to lessen traffic congestion has been on hold for years due to funding issues and was only recently approved...as a toll road, so pot tax revenue isn't helping out here.

Also, our state pension fund, while not as dire as some others, is still in jeopardy and deeply underfunded...and nope, pot tax revenue is not helping out here either.

So, when I add up the Pros and Cons, I see a lot more negatives since pot has been legalized in Colorado.

What I've come to realize is that while in theory I believe in freedom and less government influence and intrusion into our lives, there is a caveat. For freedom to work, it must include responsibility. For freedom to work it must rely on a moral people, a courteous people, a civic minded people to exercise it. I'll be the first to acknowledge that we have many pot users who fit this description, but I've seen far too many examples of those who do not.

If the vote were held today, knowing what I know now, I would vote against the legalization of pot.

Regarding whether the Republicans should push to support pot legalization...when you support something you not only "own" all the "positives" but when things go badly you "own" all the negatives as well. I'm not sure that the Republican Party wants to own all the negatives that come with the legalization of pot.

quote:

Originally posted by Modern Day Savage:

quote:

Originally posted by HayesGreener:
Medical marijuana has legitimate uses but having seen the effects of chronic MJ use many times over, I am convinced that states will rue the day they made recreational marijuana legal.

For many years, on the subject of illegal drugs, I took a libertarian attitude. Mind you, I don't partake myself and see drug use as a waste of money and health. At one point I was in favor of legalizing all drugs, with the caveat that any who partake be held wholly responsible for their behavior and actions while using the drugs with no public money allocated for their criminal or health issues.

I'm not in favor of sin taxes for any legal product- alcohol, tobacco, guns, drugs and when the legalization of pot in Colorado came to a vote I didn't like the bill as written due to the exorbitant way in which it was taxed...BUT thinking that the voters wouldn't actually pass it I thought that I would send a message of freedom and limited government by actually voting for it. I was a bit surprised when the legalization of pot was voted in.

Since pot has been legalized I've seen the repercussions on a local and weekly, if not daily basis.

A while back I took a temporary part-time job working as a booth attendant at a public parking garage. The booth was near a busy downtown area with lots of car and pedestrian traffic and was situated near a small quaint park. Mind you while pot is legal in Colorado, several municipalities have elected to not allow its sale in their jurisdiction. Also, it is prohibited to smoke pot in public, and yet in a city where it is not legal to buy I would see/ smell several who would smoke it in public, often in the park. My first day on the job we had one guy walk up to our booth and ask if we would mind if he smoked pot in the park with his friend. While I appreciated that he was courteous enough to at least ask, I didn't want to smell or otherwise be affected by it and told him I couldn't tell him what to do I didn't want to be near it.

Often by homeless people, although they were certainly not the only ones. On a weekly basis I would encounter drivers/ passengers leaving the garage who would come to the booth freshly stoned. Why some felt the need to get stoned before driving I couldn't understand but there was no mistaking the pungent smell coming from their vehicles or, in some cases the bloodshot eyes, as well as the general confusion and giggling they displayed over a relatively simple transaction.

And its not just one park. I've seen and smelled pot being smoked in several parks as well as other public places.

Since pot has been legalized in Colorado:

- I've noticed a significant increase in the homeless population and all the problems they bring to an area.

- A significant increase in the number of drivers impaired by pot while driving. The driver of a pot tourism bus was just arrested for being impaired while driving the bus while his passengers smoked pot.

- A number of deaths attributed directly to pot, including at least a few cases of violent death. These are largely due to the extra potent marijuana edibles like sweets, chocolate, candies... as well as the synthetic forms of pot.

- An increase in the number of children who show up in emergency rooms or in school either on edible pot or who brought it to school. They see their parents eating the pot candy and grab some for themselves and their friends.

- Illegal grows. Some are small operations, but there have been several large illegal pot grow operations, many operated by drug cartels, including some from outside the U.S.

- Whether in an apartment or home, having to smell pot being smoked by a nearby neighbor. Yes, this occured before it was legalized but there is no doubt that it happens with much greater frequency now.

When I voted to legalize pot I has visions of freedom, states rights, removing just one example of government over reach and intrusion into our lives. I had visions of taking the tax revenue from pot and putting it to good use by reducing our state debt and improving our infrastructure. I had thought that those who chose to smoke pot would be so grateful for this new found freedom that they would exercise good judgement and would courteously and responsibly use pot only in their basements and home garages and backyards and would take care not to allow children to have access to it.

Well, as far as tax revenue, there is no doubt that the state is taking in HUGE sums. But, while pot tax revenue was supposed to go to schools the Democrats still show up every election year with new tax increase proposals to fund public schools and several district's teachers recently had walk outs that closed down schools while they protested for more school funding and better pay.

Infrastructure? We have many portions of interstate/ state/ local highways and roads in need of major maintenance and improvement. One portion of the local interstate that has needs to be widened to lessen traffic congestion has been on hold due to funding and was only recently approved...as a toll road, so pot tax revenue isn't helping out here.

Also, our state pension fund, while not as dire as some others, is still in jeopardy and deeply underfunded...and nope, pot tax revenue is not helping out here either.

So, when I add up the Pros and Cons, I see a lot more negatives since pot has been legalized in Colorado.

What I've come to realize is that while in theory I believe in freedom and less government influence and intrusion into our lives, there is a caveat. For freedom to work, it must include responsibility. For freedom to work it must rely on a moral people, a courteous people, a civic minded people to exercise it. I'll be the first to acknowledge that we have many pot users who fit this description, but I've seen far too many examples of those who do not.

If the vote were held today, knowing what I know now, I would vote against the legalization of pot.

Regarding whether the Republicans should push to support pot legalization...when you support something you not only "own" all the "positives" but when things go badly you "own" all the negatives as well. I'm not sure that the Republican Party wants to own all the negatives that come with the legalization of pot.

Interesting; that parallels something I saw.

A town near me has only an oil/agricultural economic base. They campaigned to get a prison built, there. They figured it would add stability, in an all-encompassing sense. What they didn't bank on was the flood of prisoner's families re-locating. So, crime went up, demands upon social services spiked, etc.

Recreational marijuana is on this November's ballot here in MI. It is widely believed that it will pass.

I for one, will vote no against it. I think public intoxication is disgusting and dangerous, both to those who are drunk/high, and to those they come in contact with.


Just my personal opinion.

quote:

Originally posted by Warhorse:
Recreational marijuana is on this November's ballot here in MI. It is widely believed that it will pass.

I for one, will vote no against it. I think public intoxication is disgusting and dangerous, both to those who are drunk/high, and to those they come in contact with.


Just my personal opinion.

You should also vote to ban those dangerous guns too since personal responsibility is no longer valid.

I struggle with the whole legalization of pot issue. I’m not a fan of drugs of any stripe. Heck, I am honest enough with myself to know that I’d be better off without caffeine, but I am not giving up coffee. On the other hand, despite searching the Constitution many times, I just can’t find anything in it that gives the federal government the right to regulate drugs. Given the choice between more drugs and more federal government, I’d have a hard time wanting either one.

quote:

Originally posted by Ryanp225:

quote:

Originally posted by Warhorse:
Recreational marijuana is on this November's ballot here in MI. It is widely believed that it will pass.

I for one, will vote no against it. I think public intoxication is disgusting and dangerous, both to those who are drunk/high, and to those they come in contact with.


Just my personal opinion.

You should also vote to ban those dangerous guns too since personal responsibility is no longer valid.

True dat! No one but myself should be allowed to own them.

quote:

Originally posted by Modern Day Savage:
- A number of deaths attributed directly to pot, including at least a few cases of violent death. These are largely due to the extra potent marijuana edibles like sweets, chocolate, candies... as well as the synthetic forms of pot.

The rest of your post was very logical and thought out, but this bullet point, I've got to question. You got any links to back up this assertion? There's no LDL for anything in cannabis, I can't speak for the synthetic stuff. Deaths directly attributed to marijuana? These would be the first I've ever heard of.

As to the rest of your post, I live near SeaTac, so I've seen all that same stuff here, too. The "homeless" showing up when pot got legalized first there, and then here, didn't show up just because of the legal pot. They showed up because of our fantastically liberal social programs and the fact that cops won't hassle homeless junkies here. Until last fall, I spent the prior three, almost four years working right in the heart of downtown Tacoma, next door to a medical grow house, and across the street from two weed shops that opened when the law passed. We had junkies before that, and yeah, they multiplied quickly. But Seattle, Tacoma, Denver, Boulder, they're all super liberal strongholds, and the first to legalize it. So the influx of human garbage wasn't a surprise to me, and I think it's really not looking at the whole picture when you lay all this stuff at the feet of legalized weed. There's a whole big picture here with our little corners of the country and what they're decided to do.

I just don't feel like homeless junkies are the metric for this issue, they're their own separate problem that isn't being handled correctly, either.

I am simply against legalizing weed, and I don't choose my political positions just to weaken the other side.
But I am also on the side of State's rights, so I just have to see how it all plays out.

The reasons to be for or against weed legalization would be a completely different, and undoubtedly lengthy, thread.