All the outrage from people about 'no cameras' and from what you're telling us, those people don't know what they're talking about, which seems to be epidemic in this matter.

Yeah, I can see how watching prisoners not on suicide watch defecate/masturbate/whatever-ate would be excessive, but it doesn't fit the conspiracy narrative. Very inconvenient things, these facts.

“We believe in truth, not facts!” Crazy Uncle Joe

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
All the outrage from people about 'no cameras' and from what you're telling us, those people don't know what they're talking about, which seems to be epidemic in this matter.

Yeah, I can see how watching prisoners not on suicide watch defecate/masturbate/whatever-ate would be excessive, but it doesn't fit the conspiracy narrative. Very inconvenient things, these facts.

You are correct. I think it is the third time I've posted it in this thread... but it's been largely missed by most, I suppose.

That list posted a few pages ago of supposed inconsistencies is indeed trash.

I'll maintain that while it is theoretically possible that Epstein didn't punch his own ticket, it is far more likely that a man with nothing to live for decided to not live. Happens every day.

If one wanted to chase a conspiracy, it is, in my mind, far more likely that the conspiracy is in him possibly being cleared from suicide watch before he should have been. A shrewd observer could take a gamble that he would do what he did, given the opportunity. Far easier to bribe an official than to actually go in and strangle the dude.

But even that is a little Tom Clancy for my taste, and I'm a Clancy fan.

Dude hit his own off button when given the chance. He was given the chance by normal procedures (cleared from safety cell after making the right statements) and by lazy guards (I'd say just as common for nighttime rounds to go undone as done).

Again, all based on my 12 years working in a correctional facility.

It's been reported that his lawyers may have requested he be removed from suicide watch.

quote:

Originally posted by az4783054:
It's been reported that his lawyers may have requested he be removed from suicide watch.

I agree. I think they should do it.

The questions I have are not likely to be answered in the news media as they probably would not fit the narrative anyone would like to project.

First off, I would discount anything from the two that falsified records and were overworked to the point of falling asleep.

Simple basic facts and timelines.

1. Who was the last one to see Epstein alive, beyond the two guards?
2. Was he last seen alive by someone other than those two after his cellmate had been removed, when he was alone in the cell.
3. Is it possible to determine if those broken bones could have been from three weeks ago, maybe his neck had been weakened, allowing for an easier suicide.

Would like to see some basic facts and timeline.

Thinking about it, I’m not sure whether I care to much if Mr. Epstein punched his own ticket or if someone else punched it for him. In fact, as someone said earlier, maybe better he died in terror against his will. At this point, I only hope that there is enough evidence to prosecute his co-conspirators to the fullest extent of the law. He was a stain who did horrible things to minors and he is gone - good riddance. Now let’s hear about burning his fellow dirtbags to the ground (through the legal system).

The one specific broken neck bone of the several bones broken in Epstein's neck bothers me. This is very rare in suicide hanging and very common with strangulation.

Reported by the Daily Mail:
"Epstein's autopsy report found his neck had been broken in several places, including the hyoid bone located near the Adam's apple, the Washington Post reports."

"Breakages to that specific bone can occur when people hang themselves but are more commonly seen in victims who have been strangled, forensic experts say."

I'll wade into this, got my boots on

Jeffery Epstein might have been a VIP, high interest prisoner, but I'll betcha most of the guards and inmates had no clue who he actually was. He wasn't Bill Cosby or OJ Simpson, just another rich "white collar" prisoner. I can imagine lax treatment of him, he wasn't The Joker or of similar notoriety. Protocols broke down, they perhaps underestimated his mindset, who knows.

He fell under the cracks of prison life, something I suspect happens all of the time.

He snuffed himself out. He was never getting out of jail. If anyone had the "need" and/or "power" to make him die - they would of absolutely 100% done it during or shortly after his first trial/plea situation in the late 2000's. They would NOT have waited until this moment. The end.

I’ve seen a man “hang” himself in a closet....with a torn piece of a sheet around his neck.

Literally had to kneel down to get it to choke himself, he died of asphyxiation. It was ruled a suicide. Most “hangings I’ve seen were of this type, not the short walk and long drop to break their neck is how a real hanging is supposed to work.

In fact I’ve only seen one hanging where the person dropped far enough to break her neck....and searching my brain, I can recall four of the asphyxiation types....from when I was a cop and two attempts when I was in the service...

What is the problem/ hangup with the hyoid bone being broken?

I'll offer David Carradine as a pointless point that this is not unheard of.

After 25 or more pages of this squabbling, I'm really starting to wish he'd left a note and had it notarized.

quote:

What is the problem/ hangup with the hyoid bone being broken?

The problem is people putting more significance to it than there really is. A broken hyoid bone is statistically more common with homicidal strangulation, but that doesn't mean it is inconsistent with suicidal hanging.

In a study referenced by The Washington Post, 25% of the victims of suicidal hanging suffered a broken hyoid. That's 1 in 4, hardly a small number. According to the National Center for Biotechnology Information, the ratio for hyoid breaks in homicide strangulations is about one-third. So 25% vs. 33%. Not a big diff, folks.

Given this guys importance and the dirt he had......I would have figured that he would've been guarded a lot better and perhaps by a different agency. Like they would do to a person that is a material witness in an important case.

quote:

Originally posted by thumperfbc:


I would expect there to be cameras...on the tier showing the entrance to cells.

Right, so what's the whole mystery here? Just check the cameras to see if anyone entered his cell at the supposed time of his death. That would settle this whole conspiracy nonsense right now, wouldn't it?

Or is someone going to tell me that there were no cameras for the prison common areas or that they just happened not to be working that day?

The only thing I know for sure is that painting of Billy in the Blue Dress puts new meaning to "Devil in a Blue Dress". I damn near threw up seeing that and I am not going to look at it again.

quote:

Originally posted by kkina:

quote:

What is the problem/ hangup with the hyoid bone being broken?

The problem is people putting more significance to it than there really is. A broken hyoid bone is statistically more common with homicidal strangulation, but that doesn't mean it is inconsistent with suicidal hanging.

In a study referenced by The Washington Post, 25% of the victims of suicidal hanging suffered a broken hyoid. That's 1 in 4, hardly a small number. According to the National Center for Biotechnology Information, the ratio for hyoid breaks in homicide strangulations is about one-third. So 25% vs. 33%. Not a big diff, folks.

In my anthropology studies, it was only ever noted as significant as a general indication of strangulation as a cause of death, combined with whatever the investigation of the remains yielded. Never in my studies was it used in any context of whether it was self-inflicted, or by another. I say this having actually examined some actual broken hyoids in a classroom setting, which is a far cry from performing an autopsy.

It’s amusing to me that so many people are suddenly experts on prisons, camera systems, and now, forensic anthropology.

quote:

Originally posted by P220 Smudge:
It’s amusing to me that so many people are suddenly experts on prisons, camera systems, and now, forensic anthropology.

My senior thesis was on those hiyod bone thingies, so, yes, I am an expert on them. There are actually 27 hiyod bones in the posterior anterior fractal section of the human throat and 14 of them are easily broken during suicide. Most people don't know this. You'd be surprised. I have to educate doctors about this all the time. All the time. It gets old.

It's all in my thesis. Thank you.

Oh, and once, I had my picture taken, so I know a lot about that camera stuff. Plus, you know, I have, like, my own throat, so, it's all very familiar to me.

I've got bedsheets, too. You can see what I mean. I'm right there in the middle of all of it, with my expertlyness.

Bro, do you even threadcount?