This made me laugh. More to slippery ol' Willy than we knew...

https://www.yahoo.com/news/jef...-bill-155922555.html

quote:

Originally posted by az4783054:
This made me laugh. More to slippery ol' Willy than we knew...

https://www.yahoo.com/news/jef...-bill-155922555.html

Check a few pages back, Teddy Brosevelt.

quote:

Originally posted by DrDan:
Analysis finds element of truth in the conspiracy surrounding Jeffrey Epstein's death, fueling speculation.

Washington TP Roll, William Watterson, Thursday on some date.

Experts studying the theories surrounding the mysterious death of billionaire pedophile Jeffery Epstein have found a single isolated fact in the theory that Epstein was murdered (EWM), in conflict with the government's assertion that he committed suicide. Historian Dr. Calvin explains, "Facts are occasionally found in crackpot conspiracy theories, but they are most commonly found in well-documented truthful accounting of events." Calvins associate, Dr. Hobbes, added, "Clearly the existence of this single, isolated corroborating fact bolsters the credibility of the EWM theory. What was once easily dismissed as gibberish must now be taken more seriously. Had the fact been discovered with a cluster of other corroborating facts, it would look suspicious and not be as meaningful. But, coming as a singular fact, it makes its existence even more stark and difficult to ignore." Furthering the EWM theory, Calvin offered this irrelevant, but seemingly evidentiary anecdote: "Remember, when Wegener first proposed plate tectonics, his theory was dismissed by mainstream scientists, only later to be accepted as real science. We can firmly expect the EWM theory to ultimately be proven correct, regardless of what ridiculous assertions the government's so-called investigators report."

Best post I've ever seen. I didn't stop and say "wait a cotton-picking minute here..." until "Calvin's assoicate, Dr. Hobbes". Then it was a delight.

Regarding the broken hyoid bone(s), read more than the conspiracist sites.
Although less common than in homicides, the bones are often broken in suicide hangings as well, especially in older people. Epstein was reportedly 66 years old: Dam’! Almost as ancient as I am.

As for whether it was murder or suicide, I’d be more than happy if it were murder. If we believe in retribution for one’s crimes, what’s better, that he went out on his own terms, or in pain and terror, thinking, “No, no! It wasn’t supposed to end like this”?

And keep in mind that criminal conspiracies hang by the threads of each participant. If one breaks, the entire thing can collapse very quickly. History is full of examples, and I’ve seen it myself in criminal endeavors involving relatively high ranking military personnel who originally thought that group solidarity would protect them. All it takes is one individual to realize that he’d be better off betraying the others. A murder would have required inside help and likely the knowledge of otherwise uninvolved correction officers, and how much would it take to convince one that his cooperation was better for him than possibly going down with the rest on a murder conspiracy charge?

If it was murder there’s a decent chance the perpetrators will be discovered and things will turn out worse than if they’d been implicated in pedophilia.

Occam’s razor says it was suicide, but we can be hopeful.

quote:

Originally posted by sigfreund:
Occam’s razor says it was suicide, but we can be hopeful.

Well, it would certainly be a feather in William Barr's cap. Feels at this point that the preponderance of responsibility and due diligence in all matters of this case falls square in the DOJ lap. Broken neck bones may or may not be the medical examiners concern. The neck bone connected to the suicide bone was apparently proposed by "People familiar with the autopsy, who spoke on the condition of anonymity due to the sensitive stage of the investigation" ... so who knows. I think maybe they just want to make sure they get it right.

quote:

Originally posted by Hobbs:
Like the Attorney General of the United States, I think ..

Name-dropping. Why?

Hobbs, earlier in this thread, I told you that if you post in a contentious thread in this forum, you should be prepared to defend your position.

You went out, found that article, decided it was valid and germane to this discussion. You copied and pasted it and you posted a link to it. For all intents and purposes of this discussion, you own that article. I took the time to point out the phony nature of the article and asked you to address the article's problems, but after thanking me for trying to keep the discussion on track, you just went ahead and moved on, leaving that con job up and unaddressed.

You posted something that is, at best, a collection of taking points, when it presents itself as evidence of 'inconsistencies'. So, here I am, once again, pounding on the rudder of this ship.

I don't like word games and I don't like it when some 'journalist' tries to fool all of us in an effort to prove some point that they have, and I really don't like it when that kind of con job BS shows up in this forum.

Without any name-dropping, without any vague statements about getting to the truth, please address the issues with the article that you posted. That 'track' you thanked me for trying to keep us on? Get on the son of a bitch, please. Defend your position.

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
Without any name-dropping, without any vague statements about getting to the truth, please address the issues with the article that you posted. That 'track' you thanked me for trying to keep us on? Get on the son of a bitch, please. Defend your position.

I think you may have been composing your post while I responded ... I think ... to your very question in my post just above yours.

quote:

The neck bone connected to the suicide bone was apparently proposed by "People familiar with the autopsy, who spoke on the condition of anonymity due to the sensitive stage of the investigation" ... so who knows. I think maybe they just want to make sure they get it right.

Nope

This:

https://sigforum.com/eve/forums...120069954#4120069954

Shall we take it point by point? I don't think you'll want that. There are 25 'inconsistencies' listed, and they're a joke.

I'll leave it up to you how to go about it, but I do expect you to tell us why you feel that news item was valid and worthy of being posted in this thread.

The posts I've made of the articles would have been posted by others anyway ... pretty sure. They seemed to be relevant to the discussion at this point. Looks like I was wrong. Guess I'll just leave it to others to post Para.

Cop-out

That is nothing but a cop-out. You know it. I know it. Anyone reading this thread knows it. The heat gets to be too much and you cannot respond in a factual way to what I'm saying, so you're just gonna leave the thread again, only you won't be leaving it. You'll just wait until the dust settles, then you'll be back in when someone quotes you. Very disappointing.

And no, Hobbs, I do not know that others would have posted that article. That's a supposition. What I do know is that it was you who posted it and it is you who is unable to address the phony nature of the article. At least admit it.

Seemed just as relevant or more so as Bill in a blue dress and other posts. What can I say.

More cop-outs. More non-sequitur. Leave this thread, please. You're doing nothing but making a mess.

Just for a little levity in this thread.

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
More cop-outs. More non-sequitur. Leave this thread, please. You're doing nothing but making a mess.

Aye-Aye

Guys, if you post an article in the forum, please make sure that you've read it to make sure that it's not manure.

I have no opinion on suicide/homicide.
Of course it will be considered an "apparent suicide" until evidence points to something else. As far as we know, Epstein was the only one in that cell.

That raises questions about who came and went, if anyone.

I'll briefly try to address a couple of the related items on Hobbs list:

quote:

** The cameras malfunctioned — There is no video
** Even Mexico had video of El Chapo’s escape from prison
** Then later we hear the cameras showed the guards did not do rounds? Which is it?

I have not heard or read that. Did the cameras malfunction? Is there no video?
Has any prison official or any DOJ official said that? I don't think so.

These items aren't so much "inconsistencies" as open questions. They aren't inconsistent with an official narrative because there is no official narrative yet. The autopsy is still "pending".

This is a very secure facility. There should be video. I have read that the video cameras only cover the hall ways, they do not point into individual cells. I don't know why that is. Is a prisoner entitled to a "reasonable expectation of privacy"? I think not. Still, we ought to know if anyone came or went into that cell during the two hours or so before he was found unconscious.

If there is no video, that raises more questions.
Is it possible that the cameras were not recording? Were they pointed another way? Was the video recording erased?

quote:

If there is no video, that raises more questions.
Is it possible that the cameras were not recording? Were they pointed another way? Was the video recording erased?

What the hell is up with that? Even at my job, someone would have to either key into the data center or closet to be able to yank the camera plug, or log into the server remotely to wipe the files or disable the camera.

Bullshit that this “There’s simply no video, it malfunctioned.” is even getting air time.

quote:

Originally posted by chellim1:
I have no opinion on suicide/homicide.
Of course it will be considered an "apparent suicide" until evidence points to something else.

Hopefully this is in reference to how the media or politicians consider it.
In regards to Police investigative research, a suicide should be investigated as a homicide until the evidence shows otherwise.

Jeffrey Epstein’s gal pal Ghislaine Maxwell spotted at In-N-Out Burger in first photos since his death

https://nypost.com/2019/08/15/...tos-since-his-death/

The Post found the socialite hiding in plain sight in the least likely place imaginable — at a fast food joint in Los Angeles.

Maxwell, 57, alleged madam to the multi-millionaire Epstein, was scarfing down a burger, fries and shake al fresco at an In-N-Out on Monday while reading, “The Book of Honor: The Secret Lives and Deaths of CIA Operatives.”

Maxwell — who was sitting alone with a pet pooch — was surprised she located and told an onlooker:

“Well, I guess this is the last time I’ll be eating here!”

On Wednesday, it was reported that she has been living with tech CEO Scott Borgeson in his secluded mansion in Manchester-by-the-Sea, Massachusetts, since 2016, according to a close neighbor.


Maxwell left the residence about “one month ago” when the news of her involvement with Epstein broke, a neighbor told The Post.

Borgerson has flatly denied any romance with Maxwell.

“I am not dating Ghislaine, I’m home alone with my cat,” he told The Post.

When asked about the status of his friendship with Maxwell now, Borgerson replied: “I don’t want to comment on that — would you want to talk about your friends?”

pics at link

quote:

Originally posted by chellim1:
I have read that the video cameras only cover the hall ways, they do not point into individual cells. I don't know why that is. Is a prisoner entitled to a "reasonable expectation of privacy"? I think not. Still, we ought to know if anyone came or went into that cell during the two hours or so before he was found unconscious.

Speaking from my experience in local detainment facilities in CA, there are no cameras in normal cells. I would expect there to be cameras in a designated suicide prevention cell, as well as on the tier showing the entrance to cells. But I've never seen one in a typical cell due to privacy concerns. Nobody really and routinely wants to see what an inmate does in their bed, or on their toilet. You see enough of that simply doing your rounds.

That being said, the Federal system might be different.

EDIT: I remembered one of my deputies used to work in a Federal facility. He confirms that they operate the same as we do: no cameras in a typical cell, only the suicide prevention cells.

From public reports Epstein was cleared from "suicide watch" which means he was transferred out of the "safety cell" to a normal cell. Normal cells lack cameras. Normal cells come with sheets. And bed frames. Bed frames that accommodate the tying off of sheets.

I personally have hoisted an inmate off the ground who was actively trying to die by tying his sheet to the bed-frame and around his neck and then "kneeling". Had another inmate, who was out of his cell, not alerted us, the inmate would be dead.

It happens.