quote:

Originally posted by jigray3:

quote:

Originally posted by 1s1k:
Very few people who have owned an EV ever want to go back to ICE unless they have a specific need that electric won't meet.

I would like to see some numbers that back this assertion. I certainly know some folks who’ve abandoned their EVs for range, convenience, and reliability reasons. I would also assert there is a hardcore virtue signaling early adopter demo that will never revert, but the car buying public at large is fickle and convenience is a large obstacle for EVs in their minds. Carmax has 55k vehicles on their website currently, and only slightly more than 200 are EVs. They carried Tesla briefly in CA as a test several years ago, but abandoned the test and do not offer them at all currently. That doesn’t seem to bode well for demand at least in the used market.

Maybe they don't go back.

https://uk.motor1.com/news/299...-wont-return-petrol/

Nine in 10 electric car drivers would never go back to petrol

quote:

Originally posted by Flash-LB:. . . Nine in 10 electric car drivers would never go back to petrol

I wonder if that ratio would change if taxpayers no longer subsidized electric cars?

I'll post again that I can not for the environmental aspects. I have a friend who's been using EV for years now. From his experience, it makes financial sense in terms of TCO given the ICE car that would be bought otherwise. There were glitches when the new 3 was introduced but otherwise his experience with EV has been excellent and highly recommended. No issues with function or reliability. No maintenance or repairs needed. No gas stops (except for long distance trips).

I'm planning to have both ICE and EV in may garage. But EV does seem to have a certain utility and value. I don't care what the future of EV is beyond the life of the car. Will revisit next time I need to buy a car.

quote:

I make my own power so the car is fueled by the sun.

Was that solar system free?

There is a a cost to solar, that you'll need to figure out what the EV is using from solar to charge. If there isn't a battery wall then the overnight use is from the CA power grid to charge that EV, presuming you're allowed out of the house to go to work during the day.

If WAH confined then it's charging off solar, that's good, but, there's still a cost of the Solar system to factor in. It may be less than gas still considering the high cost of fuel in CA.

Remember in OK it's $2 to a gallon, while CA residents pay $4 to $5 so someone in CA has more incentive to go EV. It's how CA is forcing people to move to EV, which is clearly a social political move since infrastructure wise CA can't power everyone in high demand times, much less a state wide EV fleet plus normal needs.

We need EV highway surcharge taxes, since EV's are using roads and not contributing via gas tax to revenue for the state and feds. It's inevitable that a mileage tax and property tax, use fees on plates, maybe even county and city use fees are coming to EV vehicle ownership. That part of the "free ride" should have ended long ago for EV owners.

quote:

Originally posted by HRK:

quote:

I make my own power so the car is fueled by the sun.

Was that solar system free? . . .

In CA, solar power, like electric cars, are notably subsidized by the taxpayer.

quote:

Originally posted by Flash-LB:

quote:

Originally posted by jigray3:

quote:

Originally posted by 1s1k:
Very few people who have owned an EV ever want to go back to ICE unless they have a specific need that electric won't meet.

I would like to see some numbers that back this assertion. I certainly know some folks who’ve abandoned their EVs for range, convenience, and reliability reasons. I would also assert there is a hardcore virtue signaling early adopter demo that will never revert, but the car buying public at large is fickle and convenience is a large obstacle for EVs in their minds. Carmax has 55k vehicles on their website currently, and only slightly more than 200 are EVs. They carried Tesla briefly in CA as a test several years ago, but abandoned the test and do not offer them at all currently. That doesn’t seem to bode well for demand at least in the used market.

Maybe they don't go back.

https://uk.motor1.com/news/299...-wont-return-petrol/

Nine in 10 electric car drivers would never go back to petrol

Thanks for posting that, but I would point out that’s the UK, not the US, and that hardcore early adopter virtue signaling demo I was mentioning would include a fair amount of bias confirmation. Given that, 12% is a fair amount of leakage, I think.

quote:

Originally posted by HRK:

We need EV highway surcharge taxes, since EV's are using roads and not contributing via gas tax to revenue for the state and feds. It's inevitable that a mileage tax and property tax, use fees on plates, maybe even county and city use fees are coming to EV vehicle ownership. That part of the "free ride" should have ended long ago for EV owners.

Information is a year old but at that time 17 states do, 9 others have legislation in the works

California: $100 annual fee for a zero-emissions vehicle. Starting in January 2021, annual increases will be indexed to the consumer price index.

Colorado: $50 annual fee for full-electric and plug-in hybrid (PHEV) vehicles.

Georgia: $200 annual license fee for “noncommercial alternative fueled vehicles,” including EVs, but not PHEVs (unless the owner requests an alt-fuel license plate). The fee is automatically adjusted on an annual basis.

Idaho: $140 annual fee for EVs; it’s $75 for PHEVs.

Illinois: $100 annual fee for EVs beginning July 1, 2019.

Indiana: $150 annual fee for EVs; it’s $50 for hybrids and PHEVs.

Michigan: $135 annual fee for non-hybrid electric vehicles weighing less than 8,000 pounds; it’s $235 for those weighing more than 8,000 pounds. The state charges hybrid owners an extra $47.50 and PHEV drivers an added $117.50. These fees are indexed to the state gas tax and would rise incrementally if it is increased.

Minnesota: $75 annual fee on EVs.

Mississippi: $150 fee on EVs and a $75 fee on hybrids. Beginning July 1, 2021, these fees will be indexed to the inflation rate.

Missouri: $75 annual fee on EVs, and $37.50 on PHEVs.

Nebraska: $75 annual fee on alternative-fuel vehicles, including EVs.

North Carolina: $130 on plug-in vehicles, including EVs.

Oregon: $110 annual fee on PHEVs beginning on January 1, 2020.

South Carolina: $120 biennial fee for EVs; it’s a $60 biennial fee for hybrids.

Tennessee: $100 annual fee for EVs.

Utah: $60 annual fee for EVs; it increases to $90 in 2020 and $120 in 2021. Hybrids are assessed a $10 fee that rises to $15 in 2020 and $20 in 2021. It’s currently a $26 annual fee for PHEVs that jumps to $39 in 2020 and $52 in 2021. In 2022 increases will be indexed to the consumer price index.

Virginia: $64 annual license for EVs.

Washington: $150 annual fee for EVs.

Wisconsin: $100 annual fee for EVs.

To answer the question posed, I rent a car to go on vacation. My wife and I drive Corrollas. 4 hours in one beats us up good, so I rent something like an Avalon for our 3 times a year to Indianapolis and vacations to Virginia Beach. I won't buy an EV. I get 32 mpg in the compact car, with little spent on maintenance.

That’s interesting Fredward. I haven’t owned a Corolla in some time but I test drove one 2 years ago for my youngest. Nice driving car. I’m surprised that 4 hours in one would “beat you up”.

As for that article, so what? A bunch of leather pant wearing granola eaters were interviewed about their plans. Not even a mention of if anything they posted was even factual. Plus, any article that literally every other picture is of some idiot posing holding the plug like they are filling up their car. Are they holding it for the full 30 minute charge? Stupid photo op, it’s like they think we are idiots. Gingham and leather. Fuck me.

quote:

In CA, solar power, like electric cars, are notably subsidized by the taxpayer.

Not at 100 cents on the dollar, its still costs something, solar panels and equipment isn't free.

Users should add back in the subsidized amount, since other people are paying the cost for them through income reallocation taxes.

It's still not free, someone paid for it...

quote:

Information is a year old but at that time 17 states do, 9 others have legislation in the works

California: $100 annual fee for a zero-emissions vehicle. Starting in January 2021, annual increases will be indexed to the consumer price index.

It's a start, wonder what the average gas tax paid in CA is per vehicle... The tax in CA is 73.8 cents per gallon, highest in the Country,
Link

Reports state the $100 fee is less than a 1/3 of the average CA drivers of ICE vehicles in tax revenue.

Also: Link

The $52.4 billion package during the next decade also hits buyers of zero-emission vehicles (ZEVs). For the first time, owners of clean-energy cars will pay $100 each year, although it won’t go into effect until July 1, 2020 and applies only to the sale of new ZEVs.
The new ZEV licensing fees of $100 may lead to complaints from some buyers of new clean-energy cars but could be considered a bargain compared to the tax burden for drivers of gasoline-powered vehicles.

Consider that if a driver of an internal combustion vehicle puts 12,000 miles on a car that gets 25 miles per gallon, that person would pay about $280 a year in state gas taxes and fees, using the 58.3 cents-per-gallon figure.

That’s almost three times more than the $100 ZEV fee.