I too, had mixed feelings watching that but Oddball is exactly right. Having just come from living for decades in California, he knows who these people are. No, I wouldn't do it myself. I wouldn't have the guts really. But ultimately, many of these people are going to need to be shown, demonstrated pushback. Everywhere not just commiefornia.

They are going to need to be shown that theirs is a comparatively tiny group in the greater population of this country.

And, by the way, fuck no, no secession. The only way they're gonna leave this union is to have that old, fabled earthquake crack the landmass into the fuckin' Pacific. [/rant off]

This message has been edited. Last edited by: 83v45magna,

quote:

Originally posted by wcb6092:
REPORT: BLM Co-Founder Partnering Up With Pro-Communist Chinese Group

That is a foreign government funding insurrection in the US. There should be a legal means to shut that down and confiscate the funds.



.

quote:

Originally posted by 83v45magna:
I too, had mixed feelings watching that but Oddball is exactly right. Having just come from living for decades in California, he knows who these people are. No, I wouldn't do it myself. I wouldn't have the guts really. But ultimately, many of these people are going to need to be shown, demonstrated pushback. Everywhere not just commiefornia.

Public push-back is in-order. While being that obnoxious isn't for me, getting a loud dose of the opposing side within the Bay Area bubble is definitely needed for many.

Hopefully the insurance carriers and those with losses without insurance sue the cities and states for allowing the Riots to happen to recover funds for the damages.

And yes, the "taxpayers have to pay the bill", and they should, because in these cases, Portland, Seattle, Kenosha, the taxpayers elected the politicians who allowed it to happen, therefore they are just as much at fault..

And to our members in these areas, yes It's not right that you get part of the bill for the problems created by others in your area, but that's the way it works... I do feel for you being stuck in these positions, because with a few votes, any of us could be converted from a free zone to hell politically....

Link: damage from Riots to Top $1 billion

Damage from riots across US will cost at least $1B in claims: report 'It's not just happening in one city or state – it's all over the country'

The damage from riots and looting across the U.S. following the death of George Floyd is estimated to be the costliest in insurance history – between $1 billion and $2 billion.

Insurance Information Institute (or Triple-I) compiles information from a company called Property Claim Services (PCS), which has tracked insurance claims related to civil disorder since 1950, and other databases. It provided reports to Axios that the damage from unrest between May 26 and June 8 will be the most expensive in the nation’s history, surmounting the Rodney King riots of 1992 in Los Angeles.

The price tag could be as much as $2 billion and possibly more, according to Triple I. But the protests related to Floyd differ from others the database has tracked – never before have they been so widespread.

"It's not just happening in one city or state – it's all over the country," Loretta L. Worters of the Triple-I told Axios. "And this is still happening, so the losses could be significantly more."

The last time PCS compiled insurance losses for a “civil disorder event” was 2015, when riots erupted in Baltimore after Freddie Gray died from a neck injury in police custody. But those riots did not even accrue $25 million in damages.

Other big losses on the list include the Watts riots in Los Angeles in 1965, the 1967 Detroit riot, and the New York City blackout of 1977.

DAMAGE BLAMED ON RIOTING IN KENOSHA TOPS $50 MILLION

The insurance industry is bracing for possible unrest following the November election. "There could be riots that lead to significant losses that would meet our reporting thresholds," Tom Johansmeyer, head of PCS, said. The company classifies anything over $25 million in insured losses as “a catastrophe.”

BUSINESS OWNER: KENOSHA 'LOOKS LIKE A WAR ZONE’

Riots and peaceful protests against police brutality have not only ripped through America’s major cities but also its rural areas – from Lancaster, Pa., to Kenosha, Wis.

Civil unrest, compounded by rapid-spreading wildfires, have been nearly constant in cities on the West Coast. Two deputies were shot in Los Angeles, and protesters reportedly showed up at the hospital where they were being treated shouting slogans like "Death to the police!" The LA County Sheriff's Department wrote on Twitter that the protesters were blocking the emergency room entrance.

In Portland, protesters clashed with police for over 100 straight days, before Oregon declared a state of emergency and over 500,000 were forced to flee their homes due to fires.

AG Barr is right--some of what is happening (and has happened) should be treated as Sedition. And I do mean all the nefarious activity in the FBI and DOJ.

flashguy

quote:

Originally posted by HRK:
And yes, the "taxpayers have to pay the bill", and they should, because in these cases, Portland, Seattle, Kenosha, the taxpayers elected the politicians who allowed it to happen, therefore they are just as much at fault..

And remember, folks, thanks to Trump, taxpayers in those commie towns, counties and states can only deduct $10,000 of the state and local taxes they pay from their federal income tax. We're not only not subsidizing multigenerational welfare dependency and bunny-fart-powered trains to nowhere, we the American people won't be picking up the bill for this nonsense either.

When Trump is re-elected, we will have a to squash quite a few of these turds to quiet them.

Mr. Cassell is a professor at the University of Utah’s S.J. Quinney College of Law.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/h...s-effect-11600296843

By Paul Cassell

Cities across the country suffered dramatic increases in homicides this summer. The spikes were remarkable, suddenly appearing and widespread, although often concentrated in disadvantaged neighborhoods. This year is on track to be the deadliest year for gun-related homicides since at least 1999.

The antipolice protests that began across the country around May 27 appear to have resulted in a decline in policing directed at gun violence, producing—perhaps unsurprisingly—an increase in shootings.

My recent research quantifies the size of this summer’s Minneapolis Effect, estimating that reduced proactive policing resulted in about 710 more homicides and 2,800 more shootings in June and July alone. The victims of these crimes are disproportionately African-American and Hispanic, often living in disadvantaged and low-income neighborhoods.

While these estimates are stated in the cold precision of an economic calculation, behind the numbers lies a tremendous toll in human suffering—lives lost, futures destroyed and families left grieving. The nation’s recent homicide spikes require urgent attention. Even more urgently, the nation needs to consider all possible responses to this tragedy, including a restoration of proactive law-enforcement efforts aimed at reducing gun violence.

quote:

Originally posted by sdy:
Mr. Cassell is a professor at the University of Utah’s S.J. Quinney College of Law.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/h...s-effect-11600296843

By Paul Cassell


My recent research quantifies the size of this summer’s Minneapolis Effect, estimating that reduced proactive policing resulted in about 710 more homicides and 2,800 more shootings in June and July alone. The victims of these crimes are disproportionately African-American and Hispanic, often living in disadvantaged and low-income neighborhoods.

While these estimates are stated in the cold precision of an economic calculation, behind the numbers lies a tremendous toll in human suffering—lives lost, futures destroyed and families left grieving. The nation’s recent homicide spikes require urgent attention. Even more urgently, the nation needs to consider all possible responses to this tragedy, including a restoration of proactive law-enforcement efforts aimed at reducing gun violence.

Hold on... I don't get it.
These protests and riots all started because of a "disproportionate amount of excessive force" on the Black (and Brown)community.

But someone is saying that there's a disproportionate amount of homicides in the Black (and Brown) community?

Sooo, sooo confusing...

The WSJ article by Cassell says that because the police have stopped enforcing the law (the Minneapolis effect), there were 710 more homicides than would have likely occurred in normal times.

The effort to defund the police and demonize them has had a dramatic negative effect by enabling more shootings.

more from the article:


Chicago’s shooting spike reflects what is happening in many major cities across the country. Researchers have identified a “structural break” in homicide numbers, beginning in the last week of May. Trends for most other major crime categories have remained generally stable or moved slightly downward.

What changed in late May? The antipolice protests that began across the country around May 27 appear to have resulted in a decline in policing directed at gun violence, producing—perhaps unsurprisingly—an increase in shootings.

The sequence of events is straightforward. George Floyd’s death while in police custody in Minneapolis produced demonstrations against the police in major cities from coast to coast. As a result, officers in most cities had to be redeployed from their normal duties to help manage the protests, some of which turned violent.


Even as the demonstrations abated, what is commonly called “proactive” policing declined. Police department data show that street and vehicle stops in Minneapolis and Philadelphia dropped sharply in June. In Chicago and New York, arrests declined steeply. And in cities around the country, both law-enforcement and citizen reports suggest a general reluctance by officers to engage in hot-spot and other enforcement efforts that are most effective in deterring gun violence.

The idea that reductions in policing might be leading to more shootings has historical precedent. Heather Mac Donaldproposed a “Ferguson Effect” in May 2015 to explain homicide increases in the aftermath of antipolice protests following Michael Brown’s death in Ferguson, Mo., the previous year. Similarly, my research with Richard Fowles identified declines in police street stops as the triggering event for the 2016 homicide spike in Chicago. Beginning in late 2015, pursuant to an agreement with the American Civil Liberties Union, Chicago police significantly reduced stop-and-frisks in the city. The result was a deadly homicide spike the following year.

The pattern in Chicago in 2016—a dramatic spike in shootings and homicides but not other crimes—is the pattern in many cities across America today. What Chicago suffered in 2016 is playing out across a much larger stage today—a new and deadly “Minneapolis Effect.”

My recent research quantifies the size of this summer’s Minneapolis Effect, estimating that reduced proactive policing resulted in about 710 more homicides and 2,800 more shootings in June and July alone. The victims of these crimes are disproportionately African-American and Hispanic, often living in disadvantaged and low-income neighborhoods.

While these estimates are stated in the cold precision of an economic calculation, behind the numbers lies a tremendous toll in human suffering—lives lost, futures destroyed and families left grieving. The nation’s recent homicide spikes require urgent attention. Even more urgently, the nation needs to consider all possible responses to this tragedy, including a restoration of proactive law-enforcement efforts aimed at reducing gun violence.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

his point is that the rioting and protesting and political attacks against the police have done significant direct harm to the community the riots / protests were "supposed" to help. It is clear the riots and protests were never intended to help the black community. They are intended to attack the foundation of the system we have succeeded under as a country.

quote:

Originally posted by CPD SIG:

quote:

Originally posted by sdy:
Mr. Cassell is a professor at the University of Utah’s S.J. Quinney College of Law.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/h...s-effect-11600296843

By Paul Cassell


My recent research quantifies the size of this summer’s Minneapolis Effect, estimating that reduced proactive policing resulted in about 710 more homicides and 2,800 more shootings in June and July alone. The victims of these crimes are disproportionately African-American and Hispanic, often living in disadvantaged and low-income neighborhoods.

While these estimates are stated in the cold precision of an economic calculation, behind the numbers lies a tremendous toll in human suffering—lives lost, futures destroyed and families left grieving. The nation’s recent homicide spikes require urgent attention. Even more urgently, the nation needs to consider all possible responses to this tragedy, including a restoration of proactive law-enforcement efforts aimed at reducing gun violence.

Hold on... I don't get it.
These protests and riots all started because of a "disproportionate amount of excessive force" on the Black (and Brown)community.

But someone is saying that there's a disproportionate amount of homicides in the Black (and Brown) community?

Sooo, sooo confusing...

Yeah, but the prof's a crackpot. He must be because the media and lib politicians are telling us a completely different story, and they're never wrong.

quote:

Originally posted by sdy:
The WSJ article by Cassell says that because the police have stopped enforcing the law (the Minneapolis effect), there were 710 more homicides than would have likely occurred in normal times.

The effort to defund the police and demonize them has had a dramatic negative effect by enabling more shootings.

Oh, I got the gist of the article, I should have tossed my [/sarcasm] at the end.

Now we're calling it "the Minneapolis effect"? What happened to "the Ferguson effect"?


I find it funny that those areas of high crime and violence to begin with, get disproportionate amount of pro-active policing to begin with, bitch about the pro-active policing, then want to defund the police.
Yet people cry and wail when the police turn "re-active" or into "self preservation" mode and crime skyrockets even more in those areas.

SDY, I'm familiar with the article, the local newspaper had an article a few days ago, stating the same numbers.

When the good people of these communities and states realize they were nothing more than pawns in a game they weren't playing and are not going to benefit from any outcome, they are going to demand heads roll.

Yeah the folks that believed all the pandering and promises made, all the wokeness didn’t change a thing. They’ll get pissed all over again, never realizing they are the problem, incapable of change & accepting responsibilities.

quote:

Originally posted by recoatlift:
incapable of change & accepting responsibilities.

The most important part of this statement.....

quote:

Originally posted by jljones:

quote:

Originally posted by recoatlift:
incapable of change & accepting responsibilities.

The most important part of this statement.....

Well.....consequences are racist so......

Pennsylvania judge sets bail for accused rioters at $1M each.

SNIP:
Several individuals accused of rioting in Lancaster, Pennsylvania, after the police shooting of Ricardo Munoz have had their bail set at $1 million.

Of the nine who were given that bail amount, none were able to post it.

Twelve adults have been charged with criminal conspiracy for arson, riot, institutional vandalism, failure to disperse, obstructing highways and other public passages, disorderly conduct, and defiant trespass. Nine of them had their bails set at $1 million. One of the 12 faced an additional charge of illegal possession of a firearm. According to police, at least eight of those charged are not Lancaster residents.

One 16-year-old has been charged with riot, disorderly conduct, possession of instruments of crime, possession of a small amount of marijuana, propulsion of missiles onto a roadway, and institutional vandalism.

LINK

^^^^^^^ well not exactly

Bail Reduced

LANCASTER, Pa. —
Judges have reduced the $1 million bail for nine of the people charged with rioting overnight Sunday in Lancaster following the fatal police shooting of Ricardo Munoz.

The men and women appeared Thursday morning on a TV monitor before a Lancaster County judge and a magisterial district judge.

Several defendants petitioned the court to lower their bail. Others had their bail reviewed by the judge who set the initial bail conditions.

Kathryn Patterson and Taylor Enterline, both 20, were given $50,000 unsecured bail. That means they will be released and only have to pay if they fail to show up in court.

Prosecutors said others had higher culpability, including 29-year-old Lee Wise, 18-year-old Talia Gessner and 23-year-old Yoshua Montague. Gessner and Montague will have to put up some money to be released. Wise will be on house arrest.

Barry Jones, 30, and Dylan Davis, 28, also have unsecured bail but will be on house arrest.

Jamal Newman, 24, had a previous parole violation. His bail was reduced to $100,000, which must be paid in full to be released from prison.

T-Jay Fry, 28, must pay a full $25,000. Police said he had a bullhorn and was telling the crowd to "burn it down" and "stand your ground." He said he was arrested the next day, and it was a case of mistaken identity.

A stipulation in each case is that if released, the individuals must remain under supervision and can't go within one block of the Lancaster police station.

Lancaster Stands Up responds
Lancaster Stands Up responded to the changes in bail for the people who were arrested.

Members of the group, as well as the ACLU and city leaders, gathered at Faith Tabernacle Church.

“It now is obvious to everybody that the $1 million bail that was set was not to serve justice but was set to punish,” said Eliza Booth, of Lancaster Stands Up.

“The existing system of cash bail is discrimination against poor people,” Lancaster City Council President Ismail Smith Wade-El said.

Lancaster Stands Up said the original high bail amounts were politically motivated attacks on the movement for police reform and accountability.

In the current environment, I think anyone released on a rioting charge should be placed under house arrest and tethered. Immediate revocation of bond if you leave the house or participate in planning or communication about future riots.

And another view of same story with a few more relevant details.

Arrests in Lancaster PA

Judges on Thursday dramatically reduced bail for nine of the 13 people arrested for rioting during Sunday night protests in Lancaster, Pa.

District Court Judge Bruce Roth had set bail as high as $1 million for some of the protesters, which some civil rights groups called excessive. Lt. Gov. John Fetterman went so far as to call the bail amounts "blatantly unconstitutional."

People chant during a protest at the scene of a police shooting on Laurel Street and Union Street in Lancaster city on Sunday, Sept. 13, 2020.
People chant during a protest at the scene of a police shooting on Laurel Street and Union Street in Lancaster city on Sunday, Sept. 13, 2020. (LancasterOnline via AP)

Bail for two defendants was slashed from $1 million to $50,000 unsecured, clearing the way for their release pending trial, LNP reported. One of them was Kathryn Patterson, 20, a Kappa Delta sorority sister and "ally" of a Black rights organization.

In other cases, defendants will still need to post bail ranging from $25,000 to $100,000, which means they may have to come up with a portion of it in cash to pay the bail bondsman.

The charges stem from unrest over the shooting by police of Ricardo Munoz, a 27-year-old Lancaster man who was wielding a knife after his sister sought to have him committed for mental health treatment.

Police body camera video that was made public shows Munoz brandishing the knife before the officer fatally shot him. Munoz had been awaiting trial on allegations he stabbed four people last year.

The charging documents filed by police over the demonstrators' actions described them all as instigators, which defendants' family members and supporters have in some cases hotly denied.

The protests Sunday night and early Monday were followed by rioting that caused damage to Lancaster's police headquarters and other downtown buildings. An arson fire blocked a downtown intersection.