quote:

Originally posted by Aeteocles:

quote:

Originally posted by Alpine79830:

quote:

Originally posted by Aeteocles:

quote:

Originally posted by Alpine79830:
Adult?
Not Adult?

You raise an interesting point. If she's asking for permission to go, she's not really ready for it.

I stopped asking for permission to do things and to travel places well before I graduated from high school. I simply let my parents know where I was headed, but so long as I had money in my wallet, I didn't ask or expect permission from them.

Counselor, read the original post. 18 years old, high school graduate, asking for funding... the discussion has moved beyond what you accomplished as a child to what the moral, legal implications are, not to be rude but got it?

Got it. My comment was a round about way of saying, "It may depend on how mature she is."

18 is the age of majority, but it doesn't make someone mature. If she's asking for permission, it's okay to say no: she's the one not mature enough to rely on her own decision making. If she's asking for money, then yeah, the OP absolutely gets to decide if he wants to gift this to her now, never gift it to her at all, or to give her money for this or anything else down the road.

Got it, I assumed the OP said she was asking for finance' OP?

As a frequent traveler and former European resident, I definitely say no. This is not the 60s and 70s any more. My relatives over there do not consider that they are carefree as they used to be. There is a lot of crap going on over there that is not reported. How about all the sexual molestation going on over there; remember last Christmas In Germany and Sweden
If a young girl is molested, what's she gonna say when she can't speak the language to describe the situation. Go find a translator at 3:00 am. Like other folks here said, things can turn to shit instantly. Your friend can play the odds with his daughter, and likely it will turn out ok, but if things go sideways...no. I don't feel like gambling with my kids' life. He is free to do what ever his conscience will bear.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: greco,

quote:

Originally posted by 46and2:

quote:

Originally posted by sigfreund:
And to think I used to be puzzled about where snowflakes came from.

Sigforum, where some hate the "snowflakes" on the Left yet attempt to breed their own.

Poor kids. It must be so confusing.

FUCK THIS!! OP, you have read though about 5 fucking pages of internet opinion, make your fucking decision and base it on your god damn gut father feeling. DO NOT base it on my or anyone elses's opinions on this forum but AS FATHER MAKING A FUCKING DECISION.

quote:

quote:
Originally posted by 46and2:
quote:
Originally posted by sigfreund:
And to think I used to be puzzled about where snowflakes came from.

Sigforum, where some hate the "snowflakes" on the Left yet attempt to breed their own.

I do believe that's called the moderate, pajama bottoms half up without clear direction the way they are heading.

Allow?

She is 18, and technically an adult. You couldn't stop her, and would be an ass to try.

Now, most of the rest of this is subjective, and would depend on how well she was raised, and how "in tune with the world" she is.

I've met 16 year olds with a good sense of the world, and I've met the most incredibly naive 70 year olds imaginable, and everything in between...

It comes down to the person.

Is she the impulsive type who could be influenced by people she meets?

While the "Taken" references are amusing, that is a very unlikely scenario. The much, much more likely scenario is that she is taken advantage of by a male, in an area where she doesn't know the area, has zero help in the area, and may not speak the language.

She could be robbed, assaulted, or otherwise taken advantage of in many ways.

She also could not be. Europe is a hotbed for tourism and there will be literally THOUSANDS of other American tourists doing the same things.

1. I'd question her:

Maturity level.
The "head on her shoulders."
The length of the trip
The Countries visited (France, UK, Germany, Italy, versus Eastern Bloc or Baltic states)
Her trip plan (how specific, versus "whereever the day/night may take me) (are we taking a tour of nightclubs and discos? Or are we seeing castles and battlefields?)
Is she smart enough to ensure safety nets? Taking prepaid credit cards that will be left in the hotels or in secure locations. Bank accounts accessible over there with just an account number or similar to get emergency cash in case of a robbery/larceny to get help/home? Access to cell phone communications (get a temporary prepaid phone that works there).

Is this an "educational trip" for a few weeks or is this a "find myself and maybe teach English somewhere while getting fucked up every night for an undetermined amount of time until I decide to stop living off the family teet" kind of trip?

And everything in between.

Europe is full of pervs.

quote:

Originally posted by Aeteocles:

quote:

Originally posted by Alpine79830:
Adult?
Not Adult?

You raise an interesting point. If she's asking for permission to go, she's not really ready for it.

I stopped asking for permission to do things and to travel places well before I graduated from high school. I simply let my parents know where I was headed, but so long as I had money in my wallet, I didn't ask or expect permission from them.

Allow is a tricky premise.

WHen I was 18, I had much different values, and political leanings than I have now.

I was about 20 when 9/11 happened. I was a junior in college.

I WANTED to enlist. My parents (my dad was in the reserves during Vietnam) was about 1 million percent against it, mostly because of his experiences there).

They were also paying for my college. That was one thing my parents decided from day one of my life, that they would pay for my higher education. While I had to pay for gas money, entertainment expenses, and pretty much everything other than school and room/board, it was still a HUGE expense and a HUGE gift to me, and they surely didnt have to do it. They didnt get their school paid for, and their parents didn't even have a chance at going to college.

While technically they couldn't STOP me from doing whatever the hell I wanted (be it enlist in the military, or fuck off get a shit job and drop out, or anything in between) I chose to accept their gift, and since they paid the bills by significant sacrifice on their part, I did what they requested.

So, while not technically "allowing" it, there are ways to do both.

It would depend on the kid really. A good student, with a good head on their shoulders, who is willing to accept feedback and suggestion... Sure. I'd see that as an opportunity.

A kid who has not put forth the effort into school, and is going just to party and waste money? No, I wouldn't pay for it, and wouldn't pay for anything else if the priority is just taht, as opposed to education.

Kevin

quote:

Originally posted by Alpine79830:

quote:

Originally posted by RHINOWSO:
Again, just because they are your child, now an adult, doesn't mean you fund their activities.

Risk vs reward. Freedom vs responsibility.

My son is nearly 18, but as long as he chooses to ask to live under this roof and drive a vehicle that is not his, he needs to comply with our rules for living here.

If he wanted to go backpacking through Europe the day he turns 18, I'd tell him I have some concerns but it's his choice to go.... along with his choice on how to fund it, get a passport, visas, arrange places to stay, etc, etc.

Sir, this is a leading question but if you gave the same amount of knowledge to a female of the same age would you expect the same results?

Ask me in a few years.

Honestly, at 18, there is really nothing you can do to stop them. Except make them understand that life can drastically change from 17yrs 364 days old to 18 yrs old, if they choose it to.

They can move out, they can join the military, they can go to college, they can get jobs.

But at the same time, as a parent, I can also choose the level of support I provide from that point in time. If they are assholes, I can show them the door. If they are dedicated at advancing themselves, I can continue to provide food, shelter, and assistance.

If they want to travel the world and do things I don't think are wise, why would I be obligated to help? Or even if it sounds like fun, the bank of Dad closes sometime and I never saw my duties as such to require providing bankrolling an extended vacation. I never got that, nor would I have expected it.

quote:

Originally posted by Alpine79830:

quote:

Originally posted by 46and2:

quote:

Originally posted by sigfreund:
And to think I used to be puzzled about where snowflakes came from.

Sigforum, where some hate the "snowflakes" on the Left yet attempt to breed their own.

Poor kids. It must be so confusing.

FUCK THIS!! OP, you have read though about 5 fucking pages of internet opinion, make your fucking decision and base it on your god damn gut father feeling. DO NOT base it on my or anyone elses's opinions on this forum but AS FATHER MAKING A FUCKING DECISION.

No idea why you're yelling at me -- especially given that I have stated in my original post AND again in three different follow up replies in this thread AND clarified with a new thread title AND a new first separate line in my OP that...

this

is

not

about

my

daughter.

As clearly stated in the OP, this is about my daughter's friend and my concern and surprise about her parents' already-made decision to let their daughter go hostel hopping and finance it.

Folks really need to read my OP before criticizing my parental decision-making. Because, again: This thread is not about me or my family. My daughter is not going anywhere, nor would she.

quote:

30 day, hostels and backpacking? You understand that hostels are basically just all night party venues for people who are out of town? I wouldn't want my 18 year old daughter, not even in college yet, spending the night in a shared dorm with a bunch of 20 somethings whose goal is specifically to drink and fuck their way around the world.

Thank Goodness none of that happens in college.

Honestly, all of the things you mentioned are more likely to occur at the college or university they are attending rather than a backpacking trip through Europe.

Mama & Daddy must not like her

A lot of European and Australian kids to these kind of trips. They work through their high school or college years to save up. As soon as they finnished high school or college, they take off and explore the world before starting life.

Normally, they do 3-6 month trips. Few do a whole year. It's a great way to gain experience and open your eyes to see what the world has to offer.

quote:

Originally posted by Sunset_Va:
The controversy threads always go 5 pages.

Just last week, we spent 7 pages debating whether I should remove the stickers from my vehicle. It's still on page 2.

-Rob

quote:

Originally posted by Alpine79830:

quote:

Originally posted by 46and2:

quote:

Originally posted by sigfreund:
And to think I used to be puzzled about where snowflakes came from.

Sigforum, where some hate the "snowflakes" on the Left yet attempt to breed their own.

Poor kids. It must be so confusing.

FUCK THIS!! OP, you have read though about 5 fucking pages of internet opinion, make your fucking decision and base it on your god damn gut father feeling. DO NOT base it on my or anyone elses's opinions on this forum but AS FATHER MAKING A FUCKING DECISION.

What is wrong with you?? You made a nasty comment in the bear thread that I ignored (others noted it) and now this?? Seriously, take a step back. This is a community discussion, with thoughts and opinions based on something more than what you're offering up.

quote:

What is wrong with you?? You made a nasty comment in the bear thread that I ignored (others noted it) and now this?? Seriously, take a step back. This is a community discussion, with thoughts and opinions based on something more than what you're offering up.

Well said.

quote:

Originally posted by Alpine79830:

FUCK THIS!! OP, you have read though about 5 fucking pages of internet opinion, make your fucking decision and base it on your god damn gut father feeling. DO NOT base it on my or anyone elses's opinions on this forum but AS FATHER MAKING A FUCKING DECISION.

I find your language offensive.

Alpine wants attention. He's frustrated about...things.

It's complicated. Right, Alpine?

Think I'm kidding? I wasn't born yesterday. Some things I forget quickly. Others, I remember for a long time, such as your behavior here in the past. I remember, Alpine. Just so you'll know, and maybe cut the crap.

"You live and you die by the decisions that you make."

If the travelers/family are aware of the good, the bad and the ugly and still thinks it's a good idea, more power to them.

I just got back from Europe on the 18th. On my way over I was wondering how it might be different, but once over there it was the same as it always had been. I think a couple of responsible 18 year old girls would be fine as long as they remain vigilante of their surroundings.

quote:

Originally posted by SIP2000GLO:
A lot of European and Australian kids to these kind of trips. They work through their high school or college years to save up. As soon as they finnished high school or college, they take off and explore the world before starting life.

Normally, they do 3-6 month trips. Few do a whole year. It's a great way to gain experience and open your eyes to see what the world has to offer.

There is the KEY to this whole debate, maturity, immaturity, safety, lack of safety.....let them save and pay for it themselves. When it's their hard earned money on the line and not from The First National Bank Of Dad they just might make a more rational decision. Such as "do I go on vacation or fix my car?". Or "do I party this weekend and eat Ramen for the next week or buy groceries tonight?". Been there, done that. I can tell you the decisions I made, and there were plenty of nights at nineteen I spent in front of the TV in my rented upper.

If they can't pay, they can't play.....