The lady in the pix has more of a suit than that dipshit

Europe To Spend $100BN It Doesn't Have, To Buy Weapons America Doesn't Have, To Arm Soldiers Ukraine Now Lacks

Part of Zelensky's motive for wearing a suit Monday to the White House has become clearer with fresh reporting in the Financial Times, which reviewed a document showing Ukraine will promise to buy $100 billion of American weapons financed by Europe in a bid to obtain robust US security guarantees.

Additionally, "Under the proposals, Kyiv and Washington would also strike a $50bn deal to produce drones with Ukrainian companies that have pioneered the technology since Russia’s full-scale invasion in 2022," the report continues. Ukraine pitched its plan during the Monday White House summit, which also involved seven EU leaders - and the $100BN arms deal became part of the key talking points pushed by the European allies.

This is an effort by design meant to ensure Ukraine can procure what it wants - and that its war efforts can still be funded uninterrupted - while still ultimately appeasing Trump. "We’re not giving anything. We’re selling weapons," Trump had said Monday in response to a reporter's question on the matter.

It remains very obvious that Europe's demands of keeping up huge pressure on Russia, including through sanctions, are intended to stymie any US-backed deal seen as too favorable to Moscow. The FT report comments on this as follows:

The document details how Ukraine intends to make a counter-pitch to the US after Trump appeared to align himself with Russia’s position for ending the war following his meeting with President Vladimir Putin in Alaska last week.

It reiterates Ukraine's call for a ceasefire that Trump had espoused but then dropped after his Putin meeting in favor of the pursuit of a comprehensive peace settlement.

Geopolitical analyst and commentator Glenn Diesen has pointed out, however, that Kiev is essentially attempting to create leverage out of nothing.

"Europe will spend $100 billion it does not have, to buy weapons from America that it does not have, to arm soldiers that Ukraine now lacks," he wrote, explaining further: "This is to confront Russia, which for 30 years warned it would respond to NATO militarizing its borders."

Diesen followed by doing something that Washington policy-makers refuse to do, and that is look at the big picture of how we got here [emphasis ZH]:

There was no threat to Ukraine before 2014, as only a tiny minority of Ukrainians wanted to join NATO, and Russia laid no claim to any of Ukraine's territory. Western governments then supported a coup to pull Ukraine into NATO's orbit - something that CIA Directors, Ambassadors, and Western state leaders had warned would instigate a security competition and likely trigger a war.

Russia predictably reacted fiercely. Ever since then, the only acceptable narrative has been that Russia wants to restore the Soviet Union and that Putin is Hitler. Any dissent is labelled as "disinformation", "propaganda", "hybrid warfare", or even treason.

The war has now been lost, and the Americans are pulling away from it, asking the Europeans to absorb the consequences. How do the Europeans respond? By doubling down on this madness, which will destroy Ukraine, our economies, and our relevance in the world - and possibly trigger a nuclear war. - What is the strategy? More of the same? The best thing for Ukraine is to remove it from the frontlines of the geopolitical struggle over where to draw the new dividing lines in Europe: End the war, rebuild Ukraine, and replace expansionist military blocs with the principle of indivisible security.

https://www.zerohedge.com/geop...nt-have-arm-soldiers

Everything in the above article resonates with me as a much more logical perspective than the claim from the article Anush linked on the previous pages that “Ukraine has stood at the front line of democracy’s struggle for decades.” If anything, it seems more like Ukraine has been a puppet for decades, with various different hands jammed up it’s ass as interests shift.

quote:

Originally posted by P220 Smudge:
Everything in the above article resonates with me as a much more logical perspective than the claim from the article Anush linked on the previous pages that “Ukraine has stood at the front line of democracy’s struggle for decades.” If anything, it seems more like Ukraine has been a puppet for decades, with various different hands jammed up it’s ass as interests shift.

I fail to see that the two articles are mutually exclusive. The first article makes an interesting point - which I haven't seen anywhere else - that average Ukrainians are adhering more strongly to Democratic values in the face of an existential struggle rather than skewing toward authoritarianism, as has happened a number of times in similar situations.

The second article blames the European powers for manipulating Ukraine to tweak Putin and creating, in large part, the current war.

Those two articles seem an excellent synopsis of the situation. Everyone seems to go to one extreme or the other: Zelensky is a jerk and therefore Russia gets a pass on invading and annexing a neighboring country, or Ukraine is the only thing between the world and another Hitler. Interestingly, both sides cite avoiding WWIII as the reason why we should either abandon Ukraine or support Ukraine to the death.

I certainly feel for the Ukrainians whose country was invaded, and who have withstood the onslaught of evil. And I certainly despise the manipulative European nations who (along with the US, at times) have used Ukraine as a proxy war.

Sadly, what is best is apparently for Ukraine to give up a massive chunk of its territory to appease an evil aggressor.

But what is best in this case is not something anyone should be happy about.

quote:

Sadly, what is best is apparently for Ukraine to give up a massive chunk of its territory to appease an evil aggressor.

But what is best in this case is not something anyone should be happy about.

The war has descended into a meat grinder for both sides. It can only end with territorial concessions by Ukraine, because that's where the battle lines are drawn. I suppose as in other deals, the trick is to make both parties equally unhappy with the result.

quote:

Originally posted by murphman:
I fail to see that the two articles are mutually exclusive. The first article makes an interesting point - which I haven't seen anywhere else - that average Ukrainians are adhering more strongly to Democratic values in the face of an existential struggle rather than skewing toward authoritarianism, as has happened a number of times in similar situations.

The second article blames the European powers for manipulating Ukraine to tweak Putin and creating, in large part, the current war.

[SNIP]

I certainly feel for the Ukrainians whose country was invaded, and who have withstood the onslaught of evil. And I certainly despise the manipulative European nations who (along with the US, at times) have used Ukraine as a proxy war.

That first 'article' Anush linked is from the Kyiv Independent, which is anything but! It's purely a Pro-Ukraine / Ukrainian war propaganda outlet. I wouldn't put much (any?) weight in anything being promulgated by/from that source. Take a cruise around their website and it's quite clear, NOTHING about that outlet is 'independent'.

Regarding 'manipulative nations' that have used Ukraine as a proxy war, the U.S. has been out front (basically at ALL times) leading the way in this effort! In fact we 'paved the way' going all the way back to 2014, when the U.S. State Department orchestrated a coup in Ukraine, and laid the foundation for EVERYTHING that's occurred since then!

I'm of Ukrainian heritage and I feel for the Ukrainians as much as anyone. This war (and all the unnecessary death(s) on both sides!) has gone on FAR too long, and cannot end soon enough!

Zelensky Threatens 'Future Of Friendship Depends On Hungary's Stance' After Kiev Attacks Key Pipeline Again

Via Remix News,

In the wake of Ukraine attacking yet again the Druzbha or “Friendship” pipeline on Aug. 22, Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky has come out with a not-so-subtle warning of his own.

According to the Ukrainian Interfax, the Ukrainian president told press on Sunday that Ukraine has always supported friendly relations with Hungary, but that “friendship” really depends on the position of the Hungarian government.

Zelensky did not specify if he was referring to relations between the two countries or “friendship” as in the Friendship pipeline, but Ukrainian media state he was talking about the latter.

Hungary’s foreign minister, Péter Szijjártó, posted a clip of Zelensky’s threats on X, writing:

“Zelensky used Ukraine’s national holiday to threaten Hungary. We firmly reject the Ukrainian president’s intimidation.”

Kyiv would then be clearly threatening Budapest that they will continue sabotaging the oil pipeline if the Hungarian government does not support Ukraine in its efforts against Putin, and potentially change its stance on Ukraine’s EU membership, which the Hungarian government opposes.

The Druzbha carries vital energy supplies to both Hungary and Slovakia, and Hungary’s foreign minister, Szijjártó, has repeatedly warned Kyiv not to strike again.

After the latest damage, Hungary expects repairs to take a few days.

Heading into the cold winter months, this issue is sure to escalate, and U.S. President Trump has already expressed his displeasure, saying he was “very angry” about it.

Hungary is also a major supplier of electricity to Ukraine.

https://www.zerohedge.com/geop...ter-kiev-attacks-key

Hungary joined North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO) on March 12, 1999.

https://www.newsmax.com/world/...dkt_nbr=0105024zim5h

Poland Shoots Down Wave of Russian Drones, NATO Informed

Poland shot down drones that entered its airspace on Wednesday, the first time a member of NATO is known to have fired shots during Russia's war in Ukraine.

Poland said 19 objects had entered its airspace during a large Russian air attack on Ukraine, and that it had shot down those that posed a threat. Prime Minister Donald Tusk said he had activated article four of NATO's treaty, under which alliance members can demand consultations with their allies.

"We are dealing with a large-scale provocation," said Tusk. "We are ready to repel such provocations. The situation is serious, and no one doubts that we must prepare for various scenarios."

Russia's RIA state news agency quoted a Russian diplomat as calling the accusations of an incursion "groundless" and saying Poland had not given any evidence that the drones shot down were of Russian origin.

Several European officials described the incursion as intentional and a sign of Russian escalation.

"The fact that these drones, which posed a security threat, were shot down changes the political situation," said Tusk.

The Operational Command of the Polish Armed Forces urged residents to stay at home, with three eastern regions at particular risk.

"This is an act of aggression that posed a real threat to the safety of our citizens," it said.

The incident could feed into deliberations on tightening sanctions on Moscow. European countries are hoping to persuade U.S. President Donald Trump to join them in imposing sanctions after sporadic peace talks on ending the war proved fruitless.

Countries bordering on Ukraine have reported occasional Russian missiles or drones entering their airspace in the past during the war, but not on such a large scale, and they are not known to have shot them down. Two people were killed in Poland in 2022 by a Ukrainian air defense missile that went astray.

A NATO spokesperson said NATO chief Mark Rutte was in touch with Polish leadership and the alliance was consulting closely with Poland. A source said NATO was not treating the incident as an attack but as an intentional incursion.

Polish F-16 fighter jets, Dutch F-35, Italian AWACS surveillance planes and mid-air refueling aircraft jointly operated by NATO were involved in the overnight operation, according to the source.

Poland's military command said radars had tracked more than 10 objects and those that could pose a threat were "neutralized." By morning, it said operations had concluded.

Early indications suggested the entry of Russian drones into European airspace was intentional, not accidental, the EU's top diplomat Kaja Kallas said on Wednesday.

"Russia's war is escalating, not ending. We must raise the cost on Moscow, strengthen support for Ukraine, and invest in Europe's defense," Kallas said. "The EU plays a major role and we will support initiatives like the Eastern Border Shield defense line," Kallas wrote in a post on X.

U.S. Secretary of State Marco Rubio had been briefed, CNN reporter Kaitlan Collins said on Tuesday. The State Department did not immediately respond to a request for comment.

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy said Russia used 415 drones and 40 missiles in attacks on Ukraine overnight, adding that at least eight Iranian-made shahed drones had been aimed towards Poland.

"An extremely dangerous precedent for Europe," he said. "A strong response is needed – and it can only be a joint response by all partners: Ukraine, Poland, all Europeans, the United States."

Russia has long said it has no intention of stoking a war with NATO, and that Western European countries suggesting it is a threat are trying to worsen relations.

President of the European Commission Ursula von der Leyen called for more sanctions on Russia, and said the EU was preparing sanctions on 'shadow fleet' tankers that transport its oil and third countries that buy it.

Czech Foreign Minister Jan Lipavsky called for NATO to strengthen air defenses on its frontline.

Chopin airport in Warsaw, the country's largest, closed its airspace for several hours before reopening. It said there would be disruptions and delays through the day. The airport in the city of Lublin, in eastern Poland, remained closed.

Most of Ukraine, including western regions of Volyn and Lviv which border Poland, had been under air raid alerts nearly all night, according to Ukraine's air force.

Trump, who warmly welcomed Putin in Alaska at a summit in August, said over the weekend he was ready to move to a second phase of sanctioning Russia after months of talks about a peace deal.

It was his strongest indication yet that he may escalate pressure on Moscow or its oil buyers in response to the war in Ukraine.

The European Union's top sanctions official has been in Washington this week to discuss coordinated sanctions. If such are adopted, it would be the first time the United States and Europe had taken coordinated steps against Russia since Trump returned to office in January promising to end the war in 24 hours.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

How do we know these drones were launched by the Russians?

I know Ukraine is increasingly desperate to get NATO directly involved in the fighting. It would not benefit Russia at all to launch drones into NATO territory.

Ukraine may have a motive for claiming falsely that the drones that landed in Poland came from Russia. Poland does not. Although the Poles have obviously have been strongly critical of Russia, they hardly have any incentive to fabricate an attack and claim it was from Russia if it wasn't. Below is a link of a Youtube broadcast that was on live as the Russian drones entered Polish air space. There is a flight tracker that shows the drones entering Polish air space from Russia. You will need to copy and paste it into a browser to get it to play.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNE9SeIfAqA

Here is a link to a statement by the Polish Deputy PM who states unequivocally that the drones were of Russian origin. He wouldn't issue a statement like that without 100 % certainty.

https://www.theguardian.com/wo...-ukraine-follow-live

There is no chance that the drones are not of Russian origin.

That would be some really long range drones to fly all the way to Poland from Russian occupied territory.

And the Ukrainians which always say they shoot down the majority of drones and missiles that enter their territory, must have had a bad night and just let them fly across the entirety of their country.


Distance from Poland to Russia

Distance from Poland to Russia is 4,980 kilometers. This air travel distance is equal to 3,094 miles.

https://www.distancefromto.net...rom-poland-to-russia


Shahed drones are Iranian unmanned combat aerial vehicles (UCAVs) and loitering munitions (exploding kamikaze drones) developed by Shahed Aviation Industries.[1][2][3] Shahed drones are manufactured both in Iran and in Russia, with the Russian variant building upon Iranian plans.[4] Both variants were deployed by Russian forces against Ukraine during the Russian invasion.[4]

It has a 15 kg (33 lb) warhead and has a range of 900 km (559 mi)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shahed_drones

The drones were launched from Belarus.

Or was that not an option in the Ukraine did it loonie theory?

That is a possibility. I was basing my post from the above post.

Fed161
"There is a flight tracker that shows the drones entering Polish air space from Russia"

A new headline on RT reads "Russian children with disabilities flee school hit by Ukrainian drone – governor | Russia-Ukraine conflict".

It's hard for me to take the word of a nation that targets schools for disabled children. Shame on Zelensky and Ukraine for trying to drag the rest of us into their mess.

RT is a Russian propaganda site, however there is footage of Russia killing old people in line for their pension checks.

That should give you a priapism.

quote:

Originally posted by Carpentermaass84:
A new headline on RT reads "Russian children with disabilities flee school hit by Ukrainian drone – governor | Russia-Ukraine conflict".

It's hard for me to take the word of a nation that targets schools for disabled children. Shame on Zelensky and Ukraine for trying to drag the rest of us into their mess.

Wonder why I want to see the Poles stacking Russian now?
I grew up when Russians were our enemy. News flash - they still are.

Russia does not need Ukraine or anything in its soils. The mini mad man in Moscow simply wants a war and he's got one. He wants a "win", so he remains alive and in power. He is winning nothing and, if his people ever discover truth of this war, he is a dead man. All of the EU is like, Trump, Trump, Trump because they won't stand the fuck up even if it means their survival. Screw you Europe, it ain't just about 5% gdp spending 10 years down the road. You ain't dragging America into a nuke exchange because you chicken fuckers won't stand up your military.

Did Russia Attack Poland with Drones?

https://weapons.substack.com/p...rue&utm_medium=email

Poland says that 19 allegedly Russian drones entered its airspace. In an all night operation on September 9th, the Polish air force tried to track them down. According to the Polish prime minister, Donald Tusk, four of them were destroyed but the rest remain missing. Poland blamed Russia for the attack on their territory and declared that as a NATO member it invoked Article 4 of the NATO Charter, consulting with the other NATO members.



A crash Gerbera drone in Poland Photo: Nocna Jazda Tomaszów Mazowiecki on Facebook


Is there sufficient evidence to support an Article 4 action? Article 4, like Article 5 requires NATO consensus, that is, support from all NATO members. Over the years, Article 4 has been invoked 7 times.

The jury is out whether the Polish case is strong in accusing Russia of violating Polish airspace.



Downed Gerbera, with its foam-and-plywood construction visible


There is no certainty on the types of drones used, but there is a photo of a drone (that does not look damaged) on the ground that looks like a Gerbera drone. The Gerbera is a cheap version of the Iranian Shahed 136, made out of plywood and polystyrene foam. The Gerbera can carry an explosive charge, but most are for networking purposes. It isn't known if the photo is one of those allegedly shot down. It also isn't known if there were other types of drones.

Belarus says that some drones from its territory, because of jamming by Ukraine, headed for Poland and that Belarus informed the Polish authorities.

The four drones likely were intercepted either by F-16s and F-35s or by Polish helicopters. However, the Polish government has not offered any clarity on the intercepts. Even so, it is fairly certain that no Polish air defense systems, such as the Patriot were used. This suggests that none of the drones were anywhere near sensitive military or government installations or significant transit hubs.

The Russians have denied that any of their drones were used in Poland, insisting that the drones they used against L’viv and other western Ukraine targets lacked the range to attack any meaningful Polish targets. Russians could launch drones against western Ukraine from Crimea and from Belarus. At least some of the reported drones over Poland came out of Belarus' airspace.

Especially unclear is why Russia would run any sort of attack on Poland, as doing so could provoke a NATO-led response that might lead to a wider conflict in the region. Or looked at another way, why would Russia send drones on a meaningless mission instead of going for the jugular and hitting supply depots, military bases and possibly Polish air defense systems?

Could Russian drones have been hijacked by Ukrainian hackers and sent over Poland to cause a provocation? Drones have been hijacked before, the most famous was in 2011 when Iran hijacked the US RQ-170 stealth drone and landed it at an Iranian airfield. Causing such an incident could possibly inflame NATO and lead to more weapons and money for Ukraine. It could also help convince the Poles to send troops to a multilateral security force, should one be formed. Until now, Poland has refused to participate in the security force proposed by French President Macron and British Prime Minister Starmer.

The short answer is we do not know and the Polish government has not provided enough information to be sure, if indeed Russia actually intentionally attacked Polish territory. Russian drones entering Polish airspace is not enough to demonstrate the drones were actually Russian owned or if Russian, under Russian control.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-21373353

quote:

Distance from Poland to Russia is 4,980 kilometers.

That doesn't make sense, unless this is the distance between their capitals, and even then it still doesn't. Poland has a border with Russia.

quote:

Poland has a border with Russia.

Yes in Kaliningrad, a small enclave on the Baltic Sea that is separated from mainland Russia. Which has not been used to launch attacks in this war.



As far as the distance from mainland Russia to Poland.

????????????????

Maybe Google will give you a better answer than it gave me here:

https://www.distancefromto.net...rom-poland-to-russia