quote:

Originally posted by Flashlightboy:
China is a problem, much more than Russia, but you can't say Ukraine doesn't serve our support because it's corrupt or doesn't really affect us but that Taiwan is worth defending because they make the chips for your electronics.

Nonsense. I'll do just that: Ukraine doesn't deserve our support because it's corrupt, and it doesn't really affect us. Taiwan is worth defending because they make chips for our electronics, and because Fuck China.

quote:

Originally posted by Flashlightboy:
Either we push back on both of them or we push back on neither of them.

Opposing China and Russia is not a mutually inclusive or exclusive proposition, we can make these choices. And yes, the whole world is connected and if a mosquito farts in Idaho, it causes a tsunami in the Phillipines, and Ukraine feeds the world like we're not paying farmers to turn their crops into fucking "eco-friendly fuel."

Tell me why we have to support Ukraine without telling me that
A) Russia bad.
B) It's the right thing to do.
C) We owe them.
or
D) Because NATO and UN.

Give me a reason that isn't those, because those reasons aren't reasons to fully half this country.

We need to draw the line somewhere.

On the anniversary of Russia’s full-scale invasion, Dmitry Medvedev, Deputy Chairman of the Security Council of the Russian Federation, has claimed that Russia needs to go as far as Poland to move the "threat borders" away from Russia.

Putin's delusional plan was to reform the old USSR and EXPAND IT.

Putin was shocked when the world backed Ukraine.

Putin took pieces of Ukraine and thought the rest of it would be just as easy.

If the West did not supply weapons this would have been over in 90 days tops.

Some people remember the result of Nevile Chamberlains' appeasement and the Munich Agreement.


“Those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it.” - George Santayana

Yes, it is corrupt, it is US politicians that are the biggest pigs at the trough there.

Better a small war draining Russia until it is on the verge of collapse than one American with their boots on the ground.

This is my take on this.

You are welcome to yours

quote:

Originally posted by sig2392:
We need to draw the line somewhere.

Just make sure ol' Drooling Joe has a couple of extra crayons- red ones. His hero the Krimson Kenyan used up all those with his empty "red line" bullshit.

quote:

Some people remember the result of Nevile Chamberlains' appeasement and the Munich Agreement.

"Some people"? How about anyone who knows about a little event called WWII? You guys need to find a new "dramatic" example to use. This is not the same thing. Hitler's intention was to conquer all of Western civilization.

People really like the idea of preemptive war. If Putin were to suddenly develop an effective military capable of projecting his power across Europe, it's not like he would be allowed to keep it or even remotely capable of assimilating the conquered territories...it's fantasy. I'm not sure what makes the average guy think this is a good investment for the US taxpayer...starting to think it's just a general dislike of slimy Russians.

Our corrupt, incompetent government just wasted billions of dollars mis-handling the Chinese flu scam, now those same people are being trusted to deal with a conflict that could put us in a real war and give billions more of our dollars to another country.
I'd be against this insanity no matter who was president, but seriously people, with Biden and this corrupt bureaucracy in charge, do you seriously think that the "right thing "is being done?
We, the American people are getting fucked, fucked and robbed.

quote:

Originally posted by P220 Smudge:

quote:

Originally posted by Flashlightboy:
China is a problem, much more than Russia, but you can't say Ukraine doesn't serve our support because it's corrupt or doesn't really affect us but that Taiwan is worth defending because they make the chips for your electronics.

Nonsense. I'll do just that: Ukraine doesn't deserve our support because it's corrupt, and it doesn't really affect us. Taiwan is worth defending because they make chips for our electronics, and because Fuck China.

quote:

Originally posted by Flashlightboy:
Either we push back on both of them or we push back on neither of them.

Opposing China and Russia is not a mutually inclusive or exclusive proposition, we can make these choices. And yes, the whole world is connected and if a mosquito farts in Idaho, it causes a tsunami in the Phillipines, and Ukraine feeds the world like we're not paying farmers to turn their crops into fucking "eco-friendly fuel."

Tell me why we have to support Ukraine without telling me that
A) Russia bad.
B) It's the right thing to do.
C) We owe them.
or
D) Because NATO and UN.

Give me a reason that isn't those, because those reasons aren't reasons to fully half this country.

You've already made your decision and picked a team but you still can't ideologically said who one is meritorious and the other isn't.

You have something other than feelings?

quote:

Originally posted by Flashlightboy:
You've already made your decision and picked a team...

I picked the home team. Us, the US. I think our team should stay the fuck out of this thing with Russia and Ukraine. We could be spectators rather than feel the need to take the field, if you need to stick with the sports analogy.

quote:

Originally posted by Flashlightboy:
...but you still can't ideologically said who one is meritorious and the other isn't.

quote:

Originally posted by Flashlightboy:
You have something other than feelings?

You don't want to take a shot at convincing me to support this? Surely you can pitch me a solid reason or two that aren't the ones I said I think are nonsense. You got something other than those?

It would be a futile effort.

You don't care if Russia invades one or more countries, the reasons or the methods they use to accomplish that but you do want to stand up to China if they did the same thing?

Give me some logical reason why one aggressor is ignored and left to others and why the other one merits a US response? What is difference between the two? Taiwan is friendly to us and Ukraine isn't your ideal country?

quote:

Originally posted by Flashlightboy:
It would be a futile effort.

So you don't have any good reasons.

quote:

Originally posted by Flashlightboy:
You don't care if Russia invades one or more countries, the reasons or the methods they use to accomplish that but you do want to stand up to China if they did the same thing?

This all keeps hinging on who I think is, or was, actually a serious threat to our country. OUR COUNTRY. It may be that Grandpa Mushmouth has pushed it to a point where one is actually going to be as big a problem as the other, but maybe not.

quote:

Originally posted by Flashlightboy:
Give me some logical reason why one aggressor is ignored and left to others and why the other one merits a US response? What is difference between the two? Taiwan is friendly to us and Ukraine isn't your ideal country?

You don't think Europe is capable of handling this? The major difference between the two is that Russia is Europe's problem and China is ours. When China decides to start invading countries, it won't be Europeans fighting them in the Pacific, and it won't be a trench fight with guys flying toy helicopters around.

I just don’t think the Russian people are into this war. What’s in it for them? Get shot for nothing but a crazy politician?

China is a completely different animal.
We’d have to go nuclear.

Let the cards fall where they may.

quote:

Originally posted by recoatlift:

We’d have to go nuclear.

Nobody is going nuclear.

Why would a crazy zealot give a damn about ending everything? These folks see communism as the only way.

quote:

Originally posted by recoatlift:
These folks see communism as the only way.

Which, to answer P220's question, is yet one more reason to stop him. It's why we went to Korea, it's why we went to Vietnam, it's why we funded a proxy war against them in Afghanistan, it's why we are opposed to the CCP taking Taiwan, etc....

Communism is evil and it must be stopped. If not, it will take over the world. We don't want to live in that world. Does it suck? Yep. Is it expensive? Oh yeah. But what's the alternative?

This could all have been avoided with a competent administration. But, the communists saw weakness and they pounced. Now? We're stuck.

I agree with your post & facts.

I’m just burned out helping countries then being the “ugly American.” Burned out and pissed off like so many folks. I want competent leadership or GD it none at all…be savin’ a lot of $$$!

quote:

Originally posted by recoatlift:
I’m just burned out helping countries then being the “ugly American.” Burned out and pissed off like so many folks. I want competent leadership or GD it none at all…be savin’ a lot of $$$!

I think we're all burned out. Especially when we watch the deliberate destruction of our own country by those charged with protecting it.

Thanks Gustofer. I appreciate the understanding!

Personally, I'd like to see Putin "accidentally" fall out of a high rise hotel window like so many of his opposers seem to be doing. Or, maybe the multiple gunshot wound "suicide". That would work. How about a nice cup of polonium tea, Vlad?

Am I to understand that the same gang of idiots that let - more properly, created the climate for - this happen is now to be trusted with fixing it?

Yes indeedy. Comforting, ain't it?

When you talk about sending your children and grandchildren in to the shredder. And not having any great grandchildren because of that.

You also need to realize that your future, their future and all of our future's as we have come to know it and have earned it, is thrown out the window and to the shredder as well. The absolute massive and I mean massive cost of all this is beyond pale. Some think just keep printing money and it grows on trees, yada, yada, yada. And then add, what if we don't continue with the billions what will happen?

I can tell you that will happen if we don't stop the nonsense of funneling billions, then trillions to these endeavors is that we will be enslaved and the wolf will end up at our door and devour us all. This is no joke. It is a real nightmare and folks better wake up before it is too late. And I am not talking about 20 years from now. Not just for you but for those that survive to future generations.