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Be the example.  | |||
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| Peace through superior firepower  |
Enough | |||
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Seems like the pro-Ukraine side of this issue really doesn't really know what a win is. The Biden administration is helping Zelenskyy determine what a win in this conflict is. Gee, I wonder what could go wrong with pumping hundreds of billions of dollars into a corrupt dictators country and only he decides when it's over. Thank you so much Biden, thank you so much Congress. On Friday’s broadcast of MSNBC’s “Deadline: White House,” White House National Security Council Coordinator for Strategic Communications John Kirby stated that while the United States won’t determine what a win looks like to Ukraine and they have to decide for themselves under what circumstances they’ll negotiate and no one can tell what would drive Vladimir Putin to decide to talk or end the war, they are “focused on helping President Zelensky make that determination.” Kirby said, “I’d push back…on this idea that we’re afraid of winning or that we certainly don’t want Ukraine to achieve victory. We absolutely believe that they can, and we certainly want them to win, but it’s important that Mr. Zelensky gets to determine what that looks like, what is victory, what is success, and if it ends up at the negotiating table, under what circumstances is he willing to sit down with Mr. Putin, and what would he be willing to negotiate. We’re not going to dictate those terms to him. He’s got to figure that out for himself. And what we want to do is make sure that, in the meantime, we’re giving him all the tools and training he needs to succeed on the battlefield, so that, if and when he sits down at the table, he can do so from a position of strength. Now, what would Mr. Putin do? I don’t think anybody can get accurately inside his brain to know what would drive him to the table or what would drive him to say, okay, I’ve achieved enough success or not. We’re not focused on that. We’re really focused on helping President Zelensky make that determination.” https://www.breitbart.com/clip...rmine-what-a-win-is/ | |||
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| Lawyers, Guns and Money  |
Whatever it takes… As long as it takes. Of course he will want Crimea with an open offer like that. "Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible." -- Justice Janice Rogers Brown "The United States government is the largest criminal enterprise on earth." -rduckwor | |||
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| Staring back from the abyss  |
Why wouldn't he? ________________________________________________________ "Great danger lies in the notion that we can reason with evil." Doug Patton. | |||
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“Mongo only pawn in game of life.” Makes more sense everyday! | |||
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| Lawyers, Guns and Money |
Of course, Why wouldn't he? The goal posts keep shifting. Zelenskyy has everything to gain... and we pay for it. Not yet with American lives, but with our treasure. We could force him to the negotiating table, but we won't ... not under President Depends. "Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible." -- Justice Janice Rogers Brown "The United States government is the largest criminal enterprise on earth." -rduckwor | |||
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| Staring back from the abyss |
Crimea is Ukrainian territory. Why would he not want that back? There are no shifting goal posts here. For the life of me, I cannot understand the viewpoint of some of you guys, and I don't mean that as a dig. It just doesn't make any sense to me. Do you think that our fight against communism somehow or another stopped in 1988? Or should we (the free world) should just let them do whatever they want until they come marching through El Paso and Seattle? ________________________________________________________ "Great danger lies in the notion that we can reason with evil." Doug Patton. | |||
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Those who are against involvement in Ukraine have stated over and over again reasons why - do you even read them? Can you relate even two reasons, as posted in this thread, regarding the other side's point of view? | |||
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| Staring back from the abyss |
These are the important five words in your (re)post. Crimea is Ukrainian territory. They own it. It is within their borders. Just because Russia was leasing that port does not mean that Russia owned that port. What part of that do you not understand? ________________________________________________________ "Great danger lies in the notion that we can reason with evil." Doug Patton. | |||
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| Peace through superior firepower |
1960 called and wants its doctrine back. We fought against communism in Vietnam. More than 50,000 Americans lost their lives fighting against it. Ten years, we fought. What happened? All of Vietnam is now communist. Did the world end? The Domino Effect ain't so effective after all. Ideas are difficult- possibly even impossible- to defeat. Look at what is happening inside our own country. If you really want to fight communism, your work is cut out for you in defeating it in our schools and universities. ____________________________________________________ "I am your retribution." - Donald Trump, speech at CPAC, March 4, 2023 | |||
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Shall Not Be Infringed |
Sevastapol has been the HQ for Russia's Black Sea Fleet for 240 years! Nobody should be surprised that they would intend to keep it, as it's somewhat key to their defenses in that region! It could/should have been predictable that among other things, the Maidan Revolution (a coup orchestrated by the US in February 2014) and the continued expansion of NATO eastward, would have provoked Russia into annexing Crimea. ____________________________________________________________ If Some is Good, and More is Better.....then Too Much, is Just Enough !! Trump 2024....Make America Great Again! "May Almighty God bless the United States of America" - parabellum 7/26/20 Live Free or Die! | |||
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I understand that a piece of paper allows the Russians access and use of land and facilities that they built and were part of their territorial borders for over two-hundred years. To preempt the inevitable putting words in my mouth - no, it isn't right that Russia has done what they have. Nobody in this thread, that I'm aware of, with the opposing point of view to yours as regards involvement in Ukraine has stated otherwise. What has been stated is that these actions by Russia were predictable. Acknowledging reality does not equal agreement. Again, rather than restating the reasons for the umpteenth time, I refer you to read the other posts in this thread for the specifics as to why many are not in agreement with your opinion. | |||
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Frangas non Flectes |
It's funny to me that you picked the two places I've spent the most time in my life for this example. They've been marching through El Paso since the 70's. They've been marching in Seattle for a very long time, and as a matter of fact, there's been a fucking statue of Lenin in Fremont since 1995. We need to fight another war in Europe to keep El Paso and Seattle safe? The money we've sent Ukraine could have gone to a real border wall that we dearly need, and staffing it adequately so as to make a major impact on the drugs flowing into this country. For $100 billion, we could royally fuck up the cartels, but people think those weapons and dollars are better sent to the other side of the planet. It blows my mind. The dominos fell, man, and guess what? The whole world didn't go communist. We have problems at home that badly need attention, but instead of being unified on dealing with those, we got half the country waving the flag of our land and the other half waving a flag they couldn't have told you was Ukrainian 13 months ago. ______________________________________________ “There are plenty of good reasons for fighting, but no good reason ever to hate without reservation, to imagine that God Almighty Himself hates with you, too.” | |||
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| Shall Not Be Infringed |
Actually, we could build FOUR walls along the entire southern border for $100 Billion!  What we could do with $100 Billion here in the US? Here's some analysis/suggestions... The embed starts 7+ minutes into the video ____________________________________________________________ If Some is Good, and More is Better.....then Too Much, is Just Enough !! Trump 2024....Make America Great Again! "May Almighty God bless the United States of America" - parabellum 7/26/20 Live Free or Die! | |||
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| Lawyers, Guns and Money |
Exactly. The fight against communism is a fight against an ideology. We are surrendering that fight at home without a fight. Ever since Reagan left office in 1988 we have not had an effective voice from our leaders against the perils of communism. CRT, which is taught in our schools (often called DEI), is a fig leaf for cultural marxism, which is communism. We are raising generations of kids who do not know what they do not know but are willing to tear everything down. “Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same, or one day we will spend our sunset years telling our children and our children's children what it was once like in the United States where men were free.” ― Ronald Reagan Your fight is at home, and it begins with education. "Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible." -- Justice Janice Rogers Brown "The United States government is the largest criminal enterprise on earth." -rduckwor | |||
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| Frangas non Flectes |
Well, I keep getting told we haven’t sent $100 billion in cash, we’ve only sent ten. So even if we just keep with that figure, what kind of effect could we have made with $90 billion worth of ”obsolete” war materiel used on Mexican cartels and $10 billion on a wall? I’ll tell you: we’d totally fuck the cartels sideways. I would rather pick a war with Mexico than Russia, and if you want to talk about what makes us look strong vs what makes us look weak, us having unsecured borders and ports isn’t strength. Us having a nation divided and the party of degeneracy and all the things Russians abhor in charge isn’t strength. They respect and respond to strength and we have a demented geriatric blowhard with a government full of trannies and homos in charge and we’re sitting around a thing about looking strong. That ship sailed. We've been at war with somebody or another my whole 40 years on this planet, and the only thing I can see that it's bought us is a bunch of dead and mangled American fighting men and a whole lot of ill will around the globe. Hell, don't even change the defense budget and procurement and recruiting and training and having the best war machine on the planet, but we really need to get a lot more judicious about how we use it. "But we haven't sent troops and we're getting to destroy Russia for peanuts." I keep seeing that over and over again. We're only a year into this and we don't know what we've bought with that money. I keep seeing stuff about how we fought a war for independence and if we love freedom and democracy, we owe it to Ukraine to support them. Which is it? France didn't give two shits about democracy when they supported us in 1776, they saw an opportunity to fuck with Britain. An estimated 90% of the arms at Saratoga were supplied by the French. If they hadn't thrown aid at us the way we did, we wouldn't be a country. This is true. What did it buy France? Well, their economy was in the shit and they had massive debt before that, crippling debt after, and then they had a bloody civil war less than twenty years later. Sure, they overthrew a monarch and we're all about that, but that country wasn't in shape to support us the way they did and it tore itself apart not long after and largely because while the monarchy could have opted to put the needs of the people before the aims of those in power, they did the latter at too many turns. We had cities burning across the country not three years ago, and yet we think we're in shape to thrown down with another super power? I don't think uncorking that particular bottle is the smart move despite there being all sorts of ideologically sound reasons to do it. ______________________________________________ “There are plenty of good reasons for fighting, but no good reason ever to hate without reservation, to imagine that God Almighty Himself hates with you, too.” | |||
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 American soldiers lost (not including volunteer fighters): zero. | |||
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| The Main Thing Is Not To Get Excited  |
They've already got Seattle (oops, apologies Smudge. Rookie mistake, I hadn't read the whole thread and thus missed your points on SEA. _______________________ | |||
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