Lets talk about the "deadly forced authorized" part of this.

Who authorized the deadly force, how can it be pre-approved. Is there a certain point in the perimeter when they can shoot. It seems to me deadly force for what is ultimately a property crime would be a no no.

quote:

Originally posted by gpbst3:
Lets talk about the "deadly forced authorized" part of this.

Who authorized the deadly force, how can it be pre-approved. Is there a certain point in the perimeter when they can shoot. It seems to me deadly force for what is ultimately a property crime would be a no no.

It is a Top Secret US Military facility. I would guess that authorization comes from the highest levels. It is not a property crime. It's a clear warning, DO NOT ENTER!

quote:

Originally posted by gpbst3:
Lets talk about the "deadly forced authorized" part of this.

Who authorized the deadly force, how can it be pre-approved. Is there a certain point in the perimeter when they can shoot. It seems to me deadly force for what is ultimately a property crime would be a no no.

These types of signs are posted everywhere on Military bases, especially Air Force bases.




Nope. Military Installations, especially in the US Air Force that have Priority A, B, and C classifications have specific rules of engagement already set in place. In other words, if you are there and not complying with orders, you will be subject to force, up to and including deadly force. Tennessee v. Garner does not apply in those situations.

Story time: Me (Security Police LE) and a former SAC Security Police Security Specialist were guarding helicopters that the President was to be on later that day (Priority B classification, Priority A when President is on them). One of the Army Helicopter pilots broke red (violated the Entry Control Procedures, didn't get checked in via the Entry Control Point). The pilot did not comply with our orders to stop and kept walking toward helicopters, and in fact flipped us off and said "fuck you." My partner charged the pilot and butt stocked him with old full stock M16, I put the pilot on the ground and handcuffed him. The pilot's commander, a super sharp 32 YOA Army FULL BIRD Colonel (this guy had apparently served at an Army detached unit at a SAC base) explained to the pilot again why he doesn't break red, complies with our orders. The Colonel explained to the pilot that all of this had been explained to him in two previous briefings. Then the Colonel gave the guy an Article 15 on the spot: loss of Flight status for 3 months, 2/3 loss of pay for 3 months, and confined to base for 3 months. The Colonel then forwarded a Letter of Commendation to our boss.

Breaking red means he crossed the big freaking red lines painted on the tarmac.

Military rules on military property apply. You entering the base means you agree with those rules. If you are civilian and you commit a crime on base, you will be charged through state court (concurrent state/federal jurisdiction) or through federal court if exclusive jurisdiction.

^^^^^^^^
This in spades. Former/retired USAF Security Police commander. Priority “C”, “B”, and “A” assets have different levels of physical security, but Deadly Force is authorized. Who actually knows what is stored in “Area 51” or elsewhere there. Those idjits don’t really want to test the system.

In a place not far from me, where a certain large black airplane used to operate, there were clear markings on the pavement - 'NO LONE AREA - USE OF DEADLY FORCE AUTHORISED'.

It was not a jest by the base commander.

quote:

Originally posted by 2BobTanner:
^^^^^^^^
This in spades. Former/retired USAF Security Police commander. Priority “C”, “B”, and “A” assets have different levels of physical security, but Deadly Force is authorized. Who actually knows what is stored in “Area 51” or elsewhere there. Those idjits don’t really want to test the system.

Yep the stuff there I would rate as A++++ priority.

And some of these stupid twinkies think that if they run with their arms straight back behind them, they can dodge boolits! How'd that work out for you, buster?

Darn it! I must have set my iPhone calendar wrong. Forgot all about this.

Since we're telling funny stories about guard duty and deadly force, when I was a young Corporal I got pegged for guard duty. Month long stint, 3 on, 3 off. Back when we used to have armed guards on the tank ramp (ended in the early 2000's I think). I was to be the SOG (Sergeant of the Guard). So I went to the guard briefing and the SSgt. was talking about the use of deadly force and when it was authorized. He was giving "what if's" and quizzing the guys if they could shoot or not. For instance, you are on duty and you see someone trying to break into the maintenance office. Deadly force authorized? Of course not. His next scenario is where I chuckled.

"So ok. You are walking the perimeter. You see someone who has just stolen a #1 skirt and is running away with it. Is deadly force authorized?"

Little background. Back in the day many of the skirts on the tank were classified due to the armor package (they were declassed in 2011). If one got broken open during training they had to be covered up ASAP and anyone who saw the insides had to be debriefed on what they saw. The #1 skirt was one of the classified ones. So, if someone was running away with that classified piece of gear well then yea, deadly force was authorized. And here is why I chuckled. I raised my hand and said to the SSgt. "SSgt., if someone is running away with a #1 skirt it doesn't matter if deadly force is authorized or not. My M16 ain't going to stop them".

You see the #1 skirt weighs between 750-850 pounds (depending on what side). If I saw someone running away with that on their back, I'm gonna need something more than an M16

FYI, the SSgt. was not too impressed with my statement....

quote:

Originally posted by gpbst3:
Lets talk about the "deadly forced authorized" part of this.

Who authorized the deadly force, how can it be pre-approved. Is there a certain point in the perimeter when they can shoot. It seems to me deadly force for what is ultimately a property crime would be a no no.

Another guard duty story...

Stationed overseas at a special weapons site. I was a corporal and the NCOIC at that moment. A host nation officer trailed behind, then pushed aside, one of my guys and entered a part of the facility that he was not allowed into in order to "help us" do something. I grabbed his collar with my left hand and his pistol (still in the holster) with my right hand. One of my guys put the muzzle of his rifle in his ear, then we all paused to appreciate the moment. I walked him straight backwards out the door, with the rifle still in his ear, and closed it in his shocked face. He was not happy and and made that clear to our officer of the day who took all of 3 minutes to call us and ask, WTF. Upon explanation all we got was a "Roger, out." We didn't shoot him because we didn't need to, but our weapons were loaded and deadly force was authorized.

The last time I was in Vegas, I was tempted to drive up there just to say I had been there and see the white pickup trucks sitting up on the hill but never got around to it.

Was tasked to support an ROTC battalion Summer camp. Basically I signed for everything and the instructors used it.
Among the “stuff” I signed for was 250 M-16s. With no alarm system. I had to have an armed guard on duty 24/7. Being a tasking, I did not have the cream of the crop. I did get to select two great NCOs and the three of us sat on them.
One morning the “COD” (camp office of the day) called and started a rant about the arms room. When he got to how my female didn’t know her orders, I broke in. When I told him I had no female guards he demanded which battalion he’d called. When I told him he started a new rant.
Seems my guard locked, loaded, then pointed his weapon at the guy. My first question was “What were you doing? No surprise, he was demanding for the guard to unlock the door and let him in.in addition he was banging on the door and hitting the glass. I explained the orders and use of deadly force, then hung up.
I walked in on the battalion commander and briefed him. He’d just taken command (long story) and had been at headquarters. A call later the COD was talked to and told he was off that duty.
Curious, my Field First and I spoke to the guard. Turns out he was going to follow his orders no matter what. Seems he was more worried of us then any idiot banging on the door.

Once again, a great big Nothing Burger caused by Internet boobs.

https://www.airforcetimes.com/...CQZej7hvX0mWkcza0rzs

Security @Groom should dress as Klingons to screw with the nutballs,lol

I’m glad the whole shebang turned out to just be a chance for the nutty types to get together and pump income into the surrounding community. If it becomes a harmless annual thing, so much the better.

A low budget Burning Man festival without the flaming effigy.