Kary Mullis, inventor of the P.C.R. test talks about Tony Fauci.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5aISPlTLbJo

For those in Florida:

PENSACOLA, Fla. — At a press conference in Pensacola on Wednesday, Governor Ron DeSantis announced that he will sign an executive order to prioritize seniors over the age of 65 in the general public for the COVID-19 vaccine.

DeSantis said that he won’t follow the CDC recommendations for COVID-19 vaccinations and will prioritize the elderly population after healthcare and frontline workers. Seniors will also get priority over young essential workers.

Some county level Health Departments in Florida could be able to administer vaccines to people 65 years or older as soon as Monday, Dec. 28.

DeSantis also announced that he is expected the Johnson & Johnson COVID-19 vaccine to be approved by February. He said only one shot is necessary and it can be stored in a normal freezer.

https://nbc-2.com/news/health/...or-covid-19-vaccine/

No.

Silent

Scheduled for Tuesday. I’ll let everyone know if I either become a zombie or develop super powers. I’m expecting a sore shoulder and maybe the sniffles.

Dumb question: how long after the vaccine is administered will we know the full extent of the associated risks. Are all risks realized w/in days? Or could some risks take months or years?

quote:

Originally posted by konata88:
Dumb question: how long after the vaccine is administered will we know the full extent of the associated risks. Are all risks realized w/in days? Or could some risks take months or years?

I expect to see Sokolove Law advertisements on TV in the next 5-10 years.

copa, the thing about letting us know anything after the shot is useless.

Long term side affects is where something like this is a real gamble. Be willing to be a guinea pig is a real gamble. As there will be some rest assured. And of course there is no liability for any one associated with this. They made sure of that.

Good luck.

I manage a group in a Healthcare support role. I offered the Pfizer shot to a group of employees on Tuesday, 8 accepted and 24 declined. I think the employees are just numb to the virus having worked around it for so long and just aren't scared of it.

Scientists Eye Potential Culprit Behind Covid-19 Vaccine Allergic Reactions
Researchers think polyethylene glycol, or PEG, could be responsible for allergic reactions to the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine

Scientists are eyeing a potential culprit causing the allergic reactions to the Pfizer Inc. PFE -0.45% and BioNTech SE BNTX -3.10% Covid-19 vaccine: the compound polyethylene glycol, also known as PEG.

Six severe allergic reactions to the vaccine have been reported in the U.S., according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, out of 272,001 doses administered through Dec. 19. At least two cases of anaphylaxis have also occurred in the U.K. People in the U.S. began receiving Moderna Inc.’s vaccine Monday, and no allergic reactions to it have been reported so far.

In a statement, Pfizer said it “will closely monitor all reports suggestive of serious allergic reactions following vaccination.” The company said its prescribing information includes a warning that “appropriate medical treatment and supervision should always be readily available in case of a rare anaphylactic event following the administration of the vaccine.”

Scientists are homing in on PEG as a potential suspect even as health authorities say they are still investigating the incidents and plan to study the issue further. The compound is found in other drugs and is known to trigger anaphylaxis on rare occasions.

“Although I think we’re just speculating here…it is known that one of the components that is present in both of the vaccines—polyethylene glycol—can be associated, uncommonly, with allergic reactions,” said Peter Marks, director of the Food and Drug Administration’s Center for Biologics Evaluation and Research, at a Dec. 18 press conference.

SHARE YOUR THOUGHTS
Are the reported allergic reactions giving you pause about getting vaccinated? Join the conversation below.

“What we’re learning now is that those allergic reactions could be somewhat more common than the highly uncommon that we thought they were because people do get exposed to polyethylene glycol in various pharmaceutical preparations,” he said, adding that the FDA also plans to watch the Moderna vaccine rollout “very closely” since both vaccines contain PEG.

In both the Pfizer-BioNTech and Moderna vaccines, PEG is part of the fatty envelope that surrounds the messenger RNA, the main ingredient in the vaccine. Once the mRNA gets into cells, it teaches them to make a protein that resembles the spike protein found on the surface of the coronavirus. That induces a specific immune response that shores up the body’s defenses for when it is exposed to the real virus. The PEG-containing fatty envelope helps ensure the mRNA gets across the cell membrane and into the cells.

How Messenger RNA Vaccines Work
The vaccines from Pfizer/BioNTech and Moderna use a new gene-based technology known as mRNA.
Traditional Vaccines

1. In classic vaccines, such as those against measles and polio, the patient is inoculated with weakened or inactivated versions of the virus. This triggers the immune system to produce specialized antibodies that are adapted to recognize the virus.

2. After vaccination, the antibodies remain in the body. If the patient later becomes infected with the actual virus, the antibodies can identify and help neutralize it.

Weakened virus vaccine

Actual viral infection

antibodies

New Vaccines

Scientists have identified the genetic code that coronavirus uses to produce spike proteins. They employ molecules called RNA to ferry this genetic information into our cells. The RNA is protected by a lipid coating.

Instead of using the whole virus to generate an immune response, these vaccines rely on coronavirus's outer spike proteins, which are what antibodies use to recognize the virus.

Spike

proteins

RNA

encased

in lipid coating

When injected into a patient, the RNA enters healthy cells where it helps orchestrate the production of coronavirus spike proteins.

Once exported from the cells, the spike proteins prompt the immune system to mount a defense, just as with traditional vaccines.

Vaccine-generated antibody response

Cell

Spike protein

Source: Nature Magazine

Alberto Cervantes, Josh Ulick /THE WALL STREET JOURNAL
Allergies to PEG are extremely rare, allergists and immunologists say, and it is possible that the few people who had reactions after getting the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine reacted to something else. The compound is found in a range of products, they say, such as cosmetics, foods and drugs. Some vaccines also contain PEG-like compounds, they note.

Some types of PEG are more likely to cause allergic reactions than others, scientists say.

“They’re all in a big large family, but in terms of their allergic potential, they’re not equal,” said Elizabeth Phillips, director of the Center for Drug Safety and Immunology at Vanderbilt University Medical Center. Types of PEG that are heavier are generally more likely to elicit allergic reactions than others, she said.

At the same time, “the PEG in the vaccines is different than what has been previously associated with allergic reactions,” said James Baker, an immunologist who heads the Michigan Nanotechnology Institute for Medicine and the Biological Sciences at the University of Michigan.

“The overall structure is very different from anything that’s been in a vaccine before,” he said. That makes it hard to tell how allergic reactions to the PEG in the Covid-19 vaccines will compare to allergic reactions to other PEGs, like those in certain laxatives, that have caused rare allergic reactions in the past.

Allergy experts say it isn’t certain yet whether the reactions seen so far were classic allergic reactions—that is, immune reactions involving an antibody called immunoglobulin E, or IgE, which are part of the so-called adaptive arm of the immune system, which learns to recognize specific intruders. The reactions could also be due to a misfiring of the innate immune system, causing a cascade of reactions in what’s known as the body’s complement system.

“We have to look at all the possibilities,” said Dr. Baker.

Covid-19 Vaccines Are Coming—So Are Hackers
YOU MAY ALSO LIKE

UP NEXT

Covid-19 Vaccines Are Coming—So Are Hackers
Covid-19 Vaccines Are Coming—So Are Hackers
As drugmakers distribute Covid-19 vaccines, cybersecurity experts are warning against the growing threat of tampering and theft by organized crime networks. WSJ explains how hackers are targeting the vaccine rollout during the pandemic. Illustration: George Downs
Both he and Dr. Phillips recently attended a virtual meeting hosted by the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases to discuss the Covid-19 vaccine allergic reactions. The agency said it is designing a study to look more closely at the issue.

“We anticipate studying highly allergic individuals with prior episodes of anaphylaxis, as well as some other groups such [as] patients with known PEG allergy,” said Daniel Rotrosen, the director of the Division of Allergy, Immunology and Transplantation at NIAID, in an email. The study will include healthy individuals for comparison, he said, and researchers will gather biologic samples before and after vaccination to monitor for any immune changes induced by the vaccine.

While PEG is a possible culprit, “we need to keep an open mind regarding other possibilities,” he added.

For now, the CDC says people who have a history of severe allergic reactions to any component of the Pfizer-BioNTech or Moderna vaccines should not receive the vaccine, and those who have a severe allergic reaction after the first dose should not receive the second.

People with severe allergies to any other vaccine or injectable may receive the vaccine, but should speak with their medical providers beforehand about weighing the risks of an allergic reaction with the benefits of receiving the vaccine, the agency advises.

There is no reason why people who have a history of mild or severe allergic reactions to food, pets, oral medications or environmental allergens shouldn’t receive the vaccine, the CDC says.

The agency also says people who get the shots should be observed for 15 minutes after vaccination to monitor for possible adverse reactions. People with a history of anaphylaxis should be observed for 30 minutes, it says.

The FDA requires that appropriate medical treatment for allergic reactions be immediately available in the event of an acute, anaphylactic reaction.

LINK:
https://www.wsj.com/articles/s...200?mod=hp_lead_pos3

SADLY THE DIAGRAMS DID NOT COPY.

If I recall correctly PEG is the main ingredient in Miralax and is often used for colon prep.

Time for this biopharma research executive to extrapolate what the PEG issue really means b/c the WSJ, like all its lame-stream brethren, doesn't know shit from shinola when it comes to science. What a clusterfuck that news rag has become, just like all the rest.

First, there is a huge difference between oral administration of a substance and subdural / IM injections, so much so I'm going to ignore ZSM's second post.

Now as to the article...
Polyethylene glycol is used as an excipient in many pharmaceutical preparations and I'm not aware of any study demonstrating (low molecular weight) PEG's ability to cause an allergic reaction when solely administered (as a sham vehicle). Given its hydrophilic nature, PEG increases solubility of associated medicinal agents and can increase the half-life (residence time) of drugs in the bloodstream by reducing renal clearance.

The main reason for its use in vaccines is to facilitate lipofection. This process relies on the ability of PEG to surround an antigen (the molecule that one is attempting to educate the immune system with, in this case nucleic acids encoding protein S) and through adsorption, cross the cell membrane. Once in the cytosol (the cell's interior), where the pH is different than the extracellular fluid, the lipid releases or unwinds from the nucleic acids where the cell's machinery (the ribosome) translates the mRNA into a protein (the spike protein, S).

The mRNA doesn't "teach the cells to make a protein", as stated in the WSJ - our cells already know how to do that. "Teaching cells" is a phrase borrowed from immunology as vaccines are intended to educate antigen-recognition cells to recognize an antigen. Once I read that in the article in the manner utilized, I knew immediately it was written by someone who didn't know what they were talking about, not to mention other flaws in their description of the vaccine.

So what's really happening? In a few isolated incidents, PEG may be disassociating from the nucleic acids (encoding the mRNA) upon making contact with cellular plasma membranes and potentially interfering with or causing a cell receptor (another protein) to appear antigenic. PEG typically degrades quickly in the cytosol so I don't think PEG is interfering with intracellular proteins post-adsorption, for instance with post-translational processes in the endoplasm reticulum.

Because PEG forms a liposphere with the mRNA core and there is some variability between doses (how much is conjecture), I don't believe they will be able to test for allergic sub-populations. The statistics so far demonstrate that the allergic response is a rarity. If I were in charge of a vaccination program, I would be paying critical attention to the supply chain and temperature effects as that could be a culprit (i.e. PEG disassociation).

Along with my earlier comments in this thread, I hope this information is of assistance.

Majority of Americans plan to delay COVID vaccine or not get it at all

https://justthenews.com/politi...ne-or-not-get-it-all

A majority of American voters have no plans to get the COVID-19 vaccine right away, with a sizable percentage of that group saying they will never get it at all, according to a new Just the News Daily Poll with Scott Rasmussen.

Among voters, 65% said they will either "wait and see how it works," that they're "in no particular hurry," or that they "will never take the COVID vaccine."

Just under a third, meanwhile—31%—expressed a wish to be vaccinated "as soon as possible," while 4% were undecided.

COVID-19 vaccine doses began rolling out in the U.S. this month, with frontline healthcare workers and vulnerable elderly populations among the first to receive the novel new medicine.

Click here to see this poll's cross-demographic tabulations.

To see this poll's methodology and sample demographics, click here.

Getting one as soon as possible. The wife is in high risk group.

Other than putting money into the hands of pharma, can anyone give any good reason to actually get the vaccine?

For 99.95% of the population isn’t it simply a waste of money? You might get it and might not even know it. And if I understand it the vac ins doesn’t mean that you wont get it. So what’s the point?

quote:

Originally posted by nhtagmember:
For 99.95% of the population isn’t it simply a waste of money? You might get it and might not even know it. And if I understand it the vac ins doesn’t mean that you wont get it. So what’s the point?

No, it's not a waste of money.

Approximately half of those who do get the virus do not develop signs or symptoms, but are contagious.

The vaccines to date have been shown to be 95% effective.

You may get it and not know it. The person you give it to may die.

Those who do develop symptoms may develop severe symptoms which can have long lasting effects.

Presently we have the highest rate of infection and deaths in the world, thanks entirely to those who think they don't need to take precautions. We have a damaged economy, with restrictions and unrest, all of which is entirely preventable with precautions.

A vaccine will go a LONG way toward reducing spread, and for 95% of those who do take the vaccine, preventing getting Covid, or reducing symptoms for those who might otherwise be more severely affected.

That's really the point. The vaccine can have a large impact on spread, prevention, economic recovery, reduction in the high cost of addressing the pandemic, reduction in loss of life, a reduction in joblessness, and will reduce a political, military, and security threat.

Other than that, no point whatsoever.

sns3guppy - some of the points you make are very debatable, if not false. The reason the U.S. has the highest positive infection rate is the degree of TESTING. Highest rates of death - bullshit. On a per capita basis, I have no doubt China, NK, Iran and a lot of other shithole countries are faring far worse. The Trump administration made a fatal error with Medicare when it reimburses hospitals 3x for Covid-19 patients with little oversight. I'm willing to bet the death statistics are double what they are in reality due to fraud in the system. Someone dies in a plane crash, auto accident, drowning... fucking heart attack, well it must be Covid's fault b/c they were positive for the virus (and you can bet that some of the deceased weren't tested).

Approximately half of those that contract the virus (who aren't symptomatic) are carriers, huh? What U.S. medical study can you reference that demonstrates this? As it's onset & timing dependent, no such study can exist.

Is the vaccine better than nothing? Yes, for those that should or want to take it.

Do we know how long any vaccine will be effective due to S mutations? No

Do we know if (intrinsic or learned) natural immunity is better than a single sequence variant vaccine? Highly likely b/c our immune cells typically recognize multiple viral epitopes per strain. It's also the reason why multi-valent vaccines are more effective than single antigen designs.

Is the economic shutdown necessary? Absolutely fucking not and it's time Americans learn how immunology works, let alone medical diagnostics, and realize the enormous bill that's coming due b/c of the over-reaching mandates.

Does it suck to lose one's life or loved ones? Yes, so if you're part of the vulnerable population or a HC provider - get the damn vaccine. Otherwise, it's an individual's right to choose whether to be vaccinated or not.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Dakor,

quote:

Originally posted by Dakor:
sns3guppy - some of the points you make are very debatable, if not false. The reason the U.S. has the highest positive infection rate is the degree of TESTING. Highest rates of death - bullshit. On a per capita basis, I have no doubt China, NK, Iran and a lot of other shithole countries are faring far worse. The Trump administration made a fatal error with Medicare when it reimburses hospitals 3x for Covid-19 patients with little oversight. I'm willing to bet the death statistics are double what they are in reality due to fraud in the system. Someone dies in a plane crash, auto accident, drowning... fucking heart attack, well it must be Covid's fault b/c they were positive for the virus (and you can bet that some of the deceased weren't tested).

No, this is trumpist bullshit.

When trump first said he didn't want US citizen Covid patients to come ashore because it would make him look bad, he followed up not long after by saying on numerous occasions that Covid only exists because it's found by testing. Idiotic. Utterly stupid. False. A lie. But there is no shortage of idiots to believe it.

The sun only exists if you look at it. Stand in a busy highway. The car that hits and kills you only exists if you count it. What utter claptrap.

The numbers only exist because we test? If a random population sample of 1,000 people tests positive at a 25% rate, or a 100,000 sample tests positive at a 25% rate, it makes no difference. When we look at the tests positive/100,000, the notion that the cases only exist because we tested for them is as stupid a notion as one can invent.

You might be shocked to learn that there are other countries in which the testing rate is higher; a greater percentage of the people are tested or have been tested...that does not increase the rate of Covid. It doesn't increase the infection rate, or the percentage testing positive.

As for the conspiracy notion that the numbers are pumped up, inflated to achieve an end, utter bullshit. If anything, there has been a concerted effort by many conservative governments to suppress the numbers, from Arizona's Ducey to Florida's DeSantis.

If a patient has cancer, but develops Covid and dies, it doesn't matter that he had cancer, or that the cancer contributed to it. If a man has cancer but is shot while removing money from an ATM, the fact that he was weakened by the cancer or that he might have died from the cancer doesn't alter the simple fact that he just died of a gunshot wound.

A rest home patient with comorbidity, even one on hospice who develops novel corona virus induced pneumonia and consequently dies, may have eventually died another way, and the comorbidity may have contributed to the development, but the fact is that the patient has developed covid subsequently died from it, and is a covid death; justifiably reported as such.

Those busy with conspiracy theory bullshit, prefab excuses for dismissing the news, quick to dismiss the science and discredit the scientists, are the cause of our current problem. The deniers. The liars. The downplayers. All of this is preventable. The bullsheaded stubbornness and stupidity of those who deny, refuse, downplay, lie, obfuscate, and pontificate about hydroxychloroquine, disinfectant in the blood stream, blue light in the lungs, and who intentionally hide and suppress their knowledge of the infection rate early in the process, and induce others to do the same...are also responsible for a rapidly rising number approaching 350,000 deaths.

If you're one of them, you're also responsible.

My brother did. He got the vaccine last week but he is a Doctor, 70 yr old and on staff at a big hospital in Nashville still seeing some patients.

sns3guppy, I normally find your posts thoughtful but this one did not convince me of your viewpoint or make me think differently on mine.

First, you spend a lot of examining the President’s early comments on the situation but I think you are misinterpreting his point: he said (a while ago if I recall correctly) our case numbers are higher because we are testing more. I just spent the last four months in another country, a country that is barely testing any of its population. The world health organization has no way of knowing if US cases are higher or this countries cases are higher because the data is so incomplete and not every country has prioritized testing or searching their population for this. I took that as his only point: that we don’t really know what the truth is because the picture is so incomplete. I’m surprised you interpreted his comments as a denial of reality rather than acknowledgment that our view of reality is lacking in specific information.

Additionally, this country never shut down their economy never mandated mask usage and has generally gone on as before with no impact from COVID-19 to the lifestyle of daily citizens. COVID-19 is definitely a real phenomenon but this country basically looks is it a year ago without having done anything substantial to stop the spread. I won’t tell you what to think about that fact, but it is an interesting Data point wouldn’t you say?

When it comes to “Covid related deaths“ I’m curious about your example with the hospice patient dying of a terminal illness. Edited for clarity: hospice patients have a terminal problem and are going to die. consequently, although this theoretical patient may die from COVID-19, the implication to society at large from that particular COVID-19 death is very different within the context that they were in hospice. Frankly, deaths of that manner do not convince me this disease is uniquely dangerous and requires destroying our economy. That’s why people are upset about the context of death numbers, if it is a young healthy population versus a literally sick and dying population the implications for what we should do are drastically different.

Overall I was just surprised at how emotional and accusatory your post came across. It seems unlike you. I think your approach will be unconvincing to the 65% of the population who don’t want to inject a questionable vaccine into their bloodstream.

Nice to know I outed an anti-Trumper!