quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:

quote:

Originally posted by Tubetone:
Why do you think what he said was so bad?

The tone, the threat to "destroy" the economy of a NATO ally, and saying that Erdogan will go down in history as a devil.

Shall we do this again?

I believe that, at this time, there is no mechanism for tossing out a member of NATO. To me, he, President Trump. did the right thing. How else could he have gotten Erdogan's attention. ??

The "NATO" factor seems to be a red herring when we are talking about said NATO member invading a foreign country to wipe out a group of people they don't like. If the Kurds were withing Turkish borders (or if Turkey was being attacked)...different story.

There are no crystal balls, Trump's course of action between the pull out, sanctions, and letter seemed to have worked though.

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:

Regarding President Trump's actions in Syria, I support him except for one thing- the letter he sent to Erdogan. That letter was a mistake, or rather, I should say that the tone and the contents of the letter were mistakes. If you read the letter, you may agree. He threatened to "destroy" the economy of Turkey. This was a mistake. Even if Turkey was not a NATO ally threats like that don't get us anywhere. He also said Erdogan was in danger of going down in history as a "devil". Not good. If it is the intention of the President to elicit cooperation from Turkey, then that letter was a bad mistake. The rumor is that after reading this letter, Erdogan threw it in the trash, and I have no trouble believing this.

Quoting a friend I agree with here about Trump's letter to Erogden and to the news that Turkey will now help us fight ISIS and is providing a ceasefire to allow the Kurds to vacate the 20 mile zone next to the Turkish border:

"I am sure the Turks could not help but notice how Trump brought the Iranian economy to its knees while also severely hobbling the world's number 2 economy (China). Add the EU's displeasure with Turkey and those butt-fuckers did the math and realized that in the final analysis, Turkey, as the world's #20 economy, was not well-positioned to withstand the fury of a Trump onslaught and so they are willing to talk."

So perhaps Trump's letter had the desired effect after all and wasn't so ill-advised.

I agree with the letter, except Trump calling Erdogan a perceived Devil. Seems personal doing so but maybe that’s a cultural thing? Never did understand negotiations in the Middle East. Regarding crashing his economy, the US could certainly do it (quickly even) and probably was the best means of offense Trump could use, in light of Turkey being a NATO member.

I pretty much agree the tone of the letter could have been much better.

quote:

Originally posted by smschulz:
I pretty much agree the tone of the letter could have been much better.

It's as if he dictated the letter while sitting on the can.

When ya gotta go, ya gotta go.

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:

quote:

Originally posted by smschulz:
I pretty much agree the tone of the letter could have been much better.

Its as if he dictated the letter while sitting on the can.

When ya gotta go, ya gotta go.

That probably applies to a lot of President Trump's immediate thoughts.

I would prefer a lot more diplomacy in his tone and content but that's just not him.

He was elected and has found a way to do a good job despite his inherent manner.

Who knows where his pinky winds up when he drinks tea.

In like manner, maybe he just doesn't care where his words wind up as long the tea cup gets emptied.

quote:

Originally posted by smschulz:
I pretty much agree the tone of the letter could have been much better.

It's almost as if he was purposely trying to provoke Erdogan.

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:

quote:

Originally posted by smschulz:
I pretty much agree the tone of the letter could have been much better.

Its as if he dictated the letter while sitting on the can.

When ya gotta go, ya gotta go.

I know you are not serious, but Trump is impulsive. So you might actually be right. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Twitter wars with Cher and other Hollywood nitwits are examples of fails, IMO. Letting the "press" have it right between the eyes are wins. He really needs a trusted adviser-- a son, daughter, his wife-- somebody with a cool head-- to strengthen his discrimination.

But it looks like things might turn out well despite the unfortunate letter.

quote:

Originally posted by justjoe:
I know you are not serious, but Trump is impulsive.

Someone even named him an "ass clown" early on.

It has benefits and a downside.

I don't want to be misunderstood: his impulsiveness, which is so unlike the scripted politicians-- think Romney-- is a great strength. It is a big part of the loyalty of his base. And it is a mark of his genuineness that he says what he is thinking. (Romney wouldn't tell you what he thinks about the latest weather forecast without consulting four advisers, running a focus group, and taking a poll. And then he'd announce that it's overall a good forecast, but he understands and sympathises with those who were hoping for rain.)

So, overall, I would say to Trump: Go for it! BUT keep in mind always that you are the President of the United States. Twitter wars with morons are unbecoming the president of the most powerful nation on earth. It would be like Floyd Mayweather getting into street fights with the likes of Pee Wee Herman. There's no win there. Ridiculing and insulting Erdogan likewise.

The letter was a bit bizarre. It was quite entertaining as well. That Trump, he's crazy like a fox!

He sums up the letter nicely. "Don't be a tough guy. I'll call you later." I think those last lines explain the Trump doctrine about right (if we believe Trump actually has a Trump doctrine) which seems to be a complete repudiation of the Bush doctrine.

Anyway, the letter made me laugh out loud...which is probably a good indication that it wasnt appropriate for one world leader to send it to another.

From Jim Jordan:

Ambassador Sondland is testifying today about his work as the United States Ambassador to the European Union.

His opening statement has been publicly released.

Here are some key points that further undermine @HouseDemocrats' wayward impeachment effort.

Sondland testified that he recalled NO discussions with the State Department or White House about Vice President Biden or his son.

He added that he didn’t recall any effort to encourage an investigation into the Bidens.

Sondland stated that neither Ambassador Bolton nor Fiona Hill ever shared any critical comments to him about the Administration’s Ukraine policy.

Sondland added that he was “disappointed” by media reports of Hill’s critical comments

Sondland responded to media reports misinterpreting his text messages about his work in Ukraine.

He said that allegations he sought to hide information by speaking on the phone, rather than via text, were “completely false.”

Sondland responded to reports about releasing a public statement promising to investigate corruption in exchange for a White House meeting.

He made clear that these types of statements were “routine” “common and necessary” as part of diplomacy.

Sondland said he was aware of NO discussions with the White House on withholding U.S. security assistance from Ukraine in return for assistance with the President’s 2020 re-election campaign.

Aka: he undercuts @RepAdamSchiff's theory about a quid pro quo.

Sondland responded to alleged concerns of a quid pro quo for security aid. In September, he called the President and asked “What do you want from Ukraine?”

The President’s response? “NOTHING.”

Sondland emphasized AGAIN that the President repeated “no quid pro quo” multiple times to him on the same phone call in September.

Let’s repeat it one more time: there was NO quid pro quo and NO pressure on Ukraine from President Trump.

There is no reason Sondland couldn't have testified in public for all Americans to see. But @RepAdamSchiff wants to closely control what Americans get to know.

It’s time to end this sham partisan #impeachment distraction.

Let’s get back to solving real problems facing the American people.

https://twitter.com/GOPoversig.../1184878422184681472


adding:

Sondland opening statement:

https://www.npr.org/2019/10/17...tatement-to-congress

There was one thing in that statement that DEMs will exploit. Sondland was disappointed that Presdient Trump had them involve Giuliani in some of the discussions. He said "But I did not understand, until much later, that Mr Giuliani's agenda might have also included an effort to prompt the Ukrainians to investigate VP Biden or his son or to involve Ukrainians, directly or indirectly, in the President's 2020 reelection campaign"

But he also said:

"I recall no discussions with any State Department or White House official about Former Vice President Biden or his son, nor do I recall taking part in any effort to encourage an investigation into the Bidens."

The letter got Trump what he wanted. I think he wanted to rein Turkey in right now not a week or 2 weeks from now. A lot of Kurds could have been slaughtered in that time so in that sense it had it's desired effect. Had the Kurds suffered severe casualties the dems would have been foaming at the mouth and a lot of other people would have found it very cringe worthy even amongst his supporters.

Had he worded it less staunchly Erdogan probably would have kept hammering the Kurds. Erdogan got the message crystal clear and couldn't wait to work out a deal.

Trump has that advantage of when he says something like that to another foreign leader you figure half of it's bullshit you just don't know which half so you don't want to take the gamble.

Mick Mulvaney at press conference:

"The one difference between the Trump family & the Biden family...The Trump family made their money before they went into politics"

RINO asshole GWB, still butt hurt over his little brother being beat up by Trump, goes after the President on Syria.

https://www.redstate.com/bonch...alk-goes-trump-syria

George W. Bush Suddenly Learns To Talk Again, Goes After Trump On Syria

Posted at 10:00 am on October 17, 2019 by Bonchie

George W. Bush’s presidency is an interesting period to reflect back on. By a certain sect of Republicans, Bush is held up as a good man that did the best he could in a difficult time. There’s some truth to that characterization in so far as the challenges after 9/11 were real.

As time has passed though, Republicans at large have taken a more critical eye at his myriad of missteps, not just on foreign policy (the ramifications of which we are still suffering today), but also in his inability to accomplish much of anything for the conservative cause in his eight years. When one thinks of his “signature” achievements, the mind is more likely to go to his expansion of Medicare than any conservative victory. Is John Roberts as the new swing vote on the Supreme Court really a decisive win at this point?

But perhaps the thing that bothered some Republicans the most was all the wasted political capital. For eight long years, Republicans rallied around Bush and his failures, supporting him even when he wouldn’t speak out to support himself. He was given the benefit of the doubt when he probably didn’t deserve it. In the end, he left the party in shambles, ushering in the era of Barack Obama.

Despite all the defenses expended on his behalf, Bush couldn’t be bothered to return the favor. He spent most of his post-presidency palling around with Bill Clinton and painting pictures. He refused to speak out as the Middle East and North Africa burned the ground. This left many Republicans disillusioned. Where was the reciprocity for all those years of support?

Apparently, Bush has found his tongue again though, because he’s speaking out against Trump’s pull out of Syria in a comment that can only be described as facepalm-worthy.

After nearly a decade of refusing to say a cross word about Obama’s policies, the moment Trump steps out of line and becomes too “isolationist,” he’s ready to talk again. It’s this kind of thing that produces so much of the angst from mainline Republicans toward the establishment figures in their party.

We’ve seen this same thing with Mitt Romney. When Republicans needed voices to speak against Obama, Romney was nowhere to be found. When it’s Trump and it may benefit him personally, he’s ready to talk again though. It’s opportunism at its worst and it makes Republicans feel like their own leaders don’t have their back. In short, it’s how you got Trump.

The easiest thing in the world to do right now is criticize Donald Trump. There’s no bravery in that. It’d have been much more impressive had they been willing to withstand the onslaught that would come by criticizing Obama when Republicans needed their voices.

Further, the topic in question is something Bush should sit out for the rest of his life. His track record on the Middle East simply does not lend him the credibly to speak on the issue any longer. It’d be like Donald Trump criticizing someone for having an affair. It just doesn’t make sense.

I’ll end emphasizing that when the Obama administration propagated a civil war that led to 500,000 dead people, Bush didn’t speak up. When Ben Rhodes helped orchestrate the disastrous Arab Spring, Bush had nothing to say. When ISIS formed in the rubble of it all, Bush had more pictures to paint. But now, all of a sudden, he finds his voice to go after a fellow Republican president? Come on.

Ah, well, as I said in my last post, the Trump Doctrine is seemingly a repudiation of the Bush doctrine. Seems Georgie boy is thinking the same thing.

quote:

Originally posted by lastmanstanding:
The letter got Trump what he wanted. I think he wanted to rein Turkey in right now not a week or 2 weeks from now. A lot of Kurds could have been slaughtered in that time so in that sense it had it's desired effect. Had the Kurds suffered severe casualties the dems would have been foaming at the mouth and a lot of other people would have found it very cringe worthy even amongst his supporters.

Had he worded it less staunchly Erdogan probably would have kept hammering the Kurds. Erdogan got the message crystal clear and couldn't wait to work out a deal.

Trump has that advantage of when he says something like that to another foreign leader you figure half of it's bullshit you just don't know which half so you don't want to take the gamble.

Yeah, Trump is crazy. Crazy like a fox. That letter was not diplomatic, but I am not convinced that President Trump gives a flying fig about diplomacy. From what I have seen so far, he seems to be *much* more interested in results. And from what I have seen so far, he seems to be uncannily successful in getting results. He is not a guy I would want dating my daughter, even if the age difference weren’t absurd, but he seems to be doing one heck of a good job on the job that we, the American people, hired him to do. I think I’ll just stick with a “Watch & learn.” approach rather than try to second guess him.

The culture in that part of the world respects strength and preys on weakness. Showing Turkey the back of his hand will accomplish more than bowing and apologizing which has been our previous foreign policy approach in such situations.

What’s up with Rick Perry resigning?