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Anything for the precious state workers, most of whom work for the state because they are too stupid and too lazy for the private sector.

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Originally posted by 1967Goat:
Public defined benefit pension systems need to be eliminated. They should be forced to switch to defined contribution systems like the rest of us.

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My fire district was the first in the nation to do so. The union has spent a boatload of money to try to elect people to undo that!
BTW ... it's going great.

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Fact #4: there is no avoiding facts 1-3 (unless you plan to live in a log-cabin as a hermit.....until you die of old-age)

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Originally posted by SIG228:

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Originally posted by Deqlyn:
No surprise there. They will continually ratchet down pension payouts as thry are not guaranteed. If I werr a worker in any sort of a pension i would take thr lumpsum payout or go self directed from the start if it were an option.

I don't have one concern about my pension from the State of Utah. Zero, zilch, nada. Started collecting it at age 43 and hope I live to be about 110 and my wife lives to 120 (she'll get 70% even after I croak).

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If a pension, state or company, gets upsidedown its usually because:

-Miscalculation of longevity
-bad investment returns
-lowered revenue

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Originally posted by Echtermetzger:...Well thank the Baby Jesus the private sector is free of lazy and incompetent people...

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Originally posted by jljones:

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Originally posted by roberth:
Anything for the precious state workers, most of whom work for the state because they are too stupid and too lazy for the private sector.

AWESOME stereotype. Why not say something bad about gun owners? Maybe Jews?

I left an $70,000 a year job in the private sector to police full time for half that. And that was AFTER working both jobs full time for about six years.

Again, awesome stereotype you have going on there. You should be proud.

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Originally posted by roberth:


Anything for the precious state workers, most of whom work for the state because they are too stupid and too lazy for the private sector.

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Originally posted by jimmy123x:

That happens here too. Their pension is based off of 70% of what they made in their last year, so the fire and police give the guy thats retiring a million hours of OT. And say their salary was $100k, they're getting more than that from their pension, then some are even going back to work for a different municipality and make another salary......ridiculous.

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Originally posted by Echtermetzger:

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My fire district was the first in the nation to do so. The union has spent a boatload of money to try to elect people to undo that!
BTW ... it's going great.

how goes the recruitment for new fire-fighters?

Fire-fighters enjoy a much lower life-expectancy. They are more likely to die earlier in life. If all you do is turn fire-fighting into just another job, your going to get recruits who will view it as just another job.

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By Alicia H. Munnell
At a recent meeting, a colleague asserted – with great assurance – that we need very different pension plans for different types of workers, because firefighters die two years after they retire while teachers live for 20 years....

...my question was, if they are not disabled or killed on the job, do police and firefighters have longer or shorter life expectancies than other public sector workers? In other words, if a policeman or firefighter survived to, say, age 60, would they be expected to have a longer or shorter life expectancy from that point on?...

....We had on hand actuarial reports for police and fire and other groups of public employees for Ohio, Nevada, South Carolina, New York, California, and the District of Columbia and for Dallas police and fire. All of these plans use a version of the RP 2000 mortality tables created by the Society of Actuaries....

...The results show very little difference at age 60 in the life expectancy of police and fire as compared with other public employees. The average life expectancy at age 60 for police and firefighters was 24 years for men and 26 years for women. For non-police and fire, the comparable figures were 25 years for men and 27 years for women – just one year longer! And the pattern was quite consistent across states and localities.
http://blogs.marketwatch.com/e...efighters-die-young/

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The private sector is not free of lazy and incompetent people. But the dynamics of the private sector do a much better job of getting productivity or moving them along than does the public sector.

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I googled the life expectancy of police/fire fighters, there were a variety of hits. Here is an excerpt of one.

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Originally posted by Scoutmaster:

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Originally posted by Echtermetzger:

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My fire district was the first in the nation to do so. The union has spent a boatload of money to try to elect people to undo that!
BTW ... it's going great.

how goes the recruitment for new fire-fighters?

Fire-fighters enjoy a much lower life-expectancy. They are more likely to die earlier in life. If all you do is turn fire-fighting into just another job, your going to get recruits who will view it as just another job.

I googled the life expectancy of police/fire fighters, there were a variety of hits. Here is an excerpt of one, and the source.

quote:

By Alicia H. Munnell
At a recent meeting, a colleague asserted – with great assurance – that we need very different pension plans for different types of workers, because firefighters die two years after they retire while teachers live for 20 years....

...my question was, if they are not disabled or killed on the job, do police and firefighters have longer or shorter life expectancies than other public sector workers? In other words, if a policeman or firefighter survived to, say, age 60, would they be expected to have a longer or shorter life expectancy from that point on?...

....We had on hand actuarial reports for police and fire and other groups of public employees for Ohio, Nevada, South Carolina, New York, California, and the District of Columbia and for Dallas police and fire. All of these plans use a version of the RP 2000 mortality tables created by the Society of Actuaries....

...The results show very little difference at age 60 in the life expectancy of police and fire as compared with other public employees. The average life expectancy at age 60 for police and firefighters was 24 years for men and 26 years for women. For non-police and fire, the comparable figures were 25 years for men and 27 years for women – just one year longer! And the pattern was quite consistent across states and localities.
http://blogs.marketwatch.com/e...efighters-die-young/

My neighbor was both a policeman and a firefighter. Worked 20 years for the city, retired at age 50, at 90% of his highest three years pay, doing quite well these days.

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Originally posted by Echtermetzger:

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The private sector is not free of lazy and incompetent people. But the dynamics of the private sector do a much better job of getting productivity or moving them along than does the public sector.

whereupon those lazy and/or incompetent people will eventually find jobs.....in the private sector again, albeit with different employers.

The public sector is not some island of misfit employees where refugees from the private sector end up.

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Cameras catch BART janitor who made $270,000 in a year spending hours in Powell St. closet
http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/...estions-10911932.php

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Originally posted by hbabler:....That data is over three years old, there has been a tremendous amount of data that has surfaced over the last three years in regards to cancer specifically. The data is young but for example firefighters are 100 times more likely to have testicular cancer, and 50 times more likely to have non Hodgkin's lymphoma and there many other types of cancer that occur at a much higher rate too. If occupational cancer were included in the LODD numbers as it should be the number would at least quadruple maybe more.

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Originally posted by CD228:

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Originally posted by 1967Goat:

I also found out recently that "volunteer" firefighters also receive a pension in many municipalities (mine included).

And how much do they max out at per month? How many get vested and of the vested group, how many actually collect?

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Originally posted by Scoutmaster:

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Originally posted by Echtermetzger:

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The private sector is not free of lazy and incompetent people. But the dynamics of the private sector do a much better job of getting productivity or moving them along than does the public sector.

whereupon those lazy and/or incompetent people will eventually find jobs.....in the private sector again, albeit with different employers.

The public sector is not some island of misfit employees where refugees from the private sector end up.

So the lazy don't really end up in the gov't. The gov't is more efficient/effective in their labor force? Here is a headline from a recent San Francisco Chronicle article:

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Cameras catch BART janitor who made $270,000 in a year spending hours in Powell St. closet
http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/...estions-10911932.php

The fellow gets paid overtime to sleep on the job. BART admin indicated they wouldn't pursue the matter.

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Originally posted by Tailhook 84:

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Originally posted by CD228:

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Originally posted by 1967Goat:

I also found out recently that "volunteer" firefighters also receive a pension in many municipalities (mine included).

And how much do they max out at per month? How many get vested and of the vested group, how many actually collect?

My dad did over 40 years as an active volunteer firefighter in Texas. Every month when he got his $20 check he would take my mom out for burgers. If they had enough left over they would get ice cream too.

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So the lazy don't really end up in the gov't. The gov't is more efficient/effective in their labor force?

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Preet Bharara, United States Attorney for the Southern District of New York, announced today that ROBERT LEES, a former senior executive of Universal Forest Products, Inc. (“UFP”) was convicted a jury of conspiracy, mail fraud, money laundering and making false statements in a loan application following a seven-day trial in White Plains before United States District Judge Kenneth M. Karas.

Manhattan U.S. Attorney Preet Bharara said: “Today, a jury unanimously found that Robert Lees, a senior executive at Universal Forest Products, participated in a kickback scheme that defrauded both HUD and a mortgage lender. This verdict should serve as a warning to other corporate executives tempted by fraud.”