Topic ClosedGo | New | Find | Notify | Tools |
| Cut and plug |
Sounds great in theory. Do you realize how much money that would take? The benefits that have already been earned by the retirees must be paid and how are they going to be paid if the contributions are not made into the pension? Like it or not we have a huge crisis that is not easily solved. Retireees have no social security to fall back on. For the record the cases like the one jallen mentioned are not okay and I do not condone them nor do most public safety pension members. Finally the pension benefits are sold as part of the package of benefits, in my city the lower pay rate was justified with the "great" (unsustainable) benefits. Most of the guys I work with are in this job because they love it and want to help people, however when you look at things like the insane cancer rate for firefighters it's causing a lot of guys to reconsider the department they work for. I would like the assurance that if I die my family would get the benefits that were promised to me. | |||
|
| No double standards |
But the laws of economics may well pull the rug out before there is time for a transition. So either public pension plans go bankrupt and public employees are screwed. Or gov't drastically increases taxes on the private sector, and those people are screwed (or move to another state). As to a transition, a couple of years ago a liberal Bay Area mayor sounded the alarm re public pensions around here, the other liberal Bay Area mayors told him to shut-up. "Liberty lies in the hearts of men and women. When it dies there, no constitution, no law, no court can save it....While it lies there, it needs no constitution, no law, no court to save it" - Judge Learned Hand, May 1944 | |||
|
| I kneel for my God, and I stand for my flag |
I don't have one concern about my pension from the State of Utah. Zero, zilch, nada. Started collecting it at age 43 and hope I live to be about 110 and my wife lives to 120 (she'll get 70% even after I croak). | |||
|
| Shit don't mean shit |
Lots of private companies do it...the one I work for did it. As you say, at first they stopped the program for new hires. Then, they forced all existing contributions to go to a 401k type plan. Then, they froze the date at which your highest salary was used for payment calculations. Many employees have a 2 part benefit/retirement...The "defined benefit" portion and the "defined contribution" portion. I am not saying it's "right" or "fair", but it's what business does. The current model is unsustainable. I also found out recently that "volunteer" firefighters also receive a pension in many municipalities (mine included). | |||
|
| No double standards |
That needs a repeat. I might edit your "giving handouts to everyone" and add "in exchange for votes". "Liberty lies in the hearts of men and women. When it dies there, no constitution, no law, no court can save it....While it lies there, it needs no constitution, no law, no court to save it" - Judge Learned Hand, May 1944 | |||
|
| No double standards |
I have seen numbers on the unfunded liability for social security, it is in the $50+ Trillion range, the next generation will get screwed. And in CA many public positions get quite competitive pay compared to the private sector (except for stock options), plus public positions get a much better benefit package. So almost everyone, public or private sector, will get screwed. Two ways out are to die before the tsunami hits, or to have enough of your own private funds that you are independent of any retirement plan. "Liberty lies in the hearts of men and women. When it dies there, no constitution, no law, no court can save it....While it lies there, it needs no constitution, no law, no court to save it" - Judge Learned Hand, May 1944 | |||
|
| No double standards |
One last post. Sorry I am so wordy here. I teach college business/accounting in Silicon Valley, long term liabilities, which includes present value calculations, pensions, unfunded liabilities, is the topic this week. Class starts in an hour, I will now be quiet here. But to FishOn, thanks for the OP and references, that will be the opening story for my classes today. "Liberty lies in the hearts of men and women. When it dies there, no constitution, no law, no court can save it....While it lies there, it needs no constitution, no law, no court to save it" - Judge Learned Hand, May 1944 | |||
|
Now in Florida |
I am not intimately familiar with how the PBGC works, but I hope this is not the beginning of a huge wave of defaults that the US taxpayers will have to backstop. | |||
|
| Cut and plug |
Thanks for the info scoutmaster. We have huge problems to deal with that no one in power seems to care about. | |||
|
| Member |
The teamsters already took a huge hit when NAFTA went into law. It supposedly allowed truck drivers from north or south of the border to deliver a load to its destination anywhere in the U.S. It cost a lot of jobs. That is one reason they supported Trump. He promised to trash NAFTA. NRA Life Endowment member Tri-State Gun collectors Life Member | |||
|
| Member |
That happens here too. Their pension is based off of 70% of what they made in their last year, so the fire and police give the guy thats retiring a million hours of OT. And say their salary was $100k, they're getting more than that from their pension, then some are even going back to work for a different municipality and make another salary......ridiculous. | |||
|
chickenshit |
People are given financial incentive to "game the system" and that's exactly what happens. Politicians should NEVER be allowed to vote on their own financial, retirement, insurance, or other benefit. That should always put to a popular vote. (And it should require a 2/3 majority to pass.) ____________________________ Yes, Para does appreciate humor. | |||
|
| Don't burn the day away |
My wife is funding her MA state pension to the tune of 11% of her pay. Nothing precious about that- 11% is real money. She`s 30 years in and wont retire for another 10- yeah she started young and he college was paid for with Umass. | |||
|
| Member |
It is. Most of us in the private sector have been saving like that with absolutely no guarantee of lifetime benefits. | |||
|
| SIGforum Official Eye Doc  |
However, it's not fair to me (the "taxpayer") to pay increased fees and taxes to fund someone else's plush retirement. Don't care if it is a janitor, public works worker, bureaucrat paper pusher, fireman, policeman, county attorney, elected official...if you come after my money there will be a fight. At some point, lumps need to be taken. | |||
|
| Member |
And how much do they max out at per month? How many get vested and of the vested group, how many actually collect? How much money do you save on your insurance because of the ISO rating? How much money do you pay to fund the department and how much would you pay if it was fully paid municipal department? | |||
|
| Don't burn the day away |
That's me, fully funding my 401k Max yearly. My point is she is funding her own Pension, to what extent I don't know but 11% is alot of money, especially to lose. I`d like to see what 30 years of her contributions would look like in an investment acct- she also funds a 403B. | |||
|
| Member |
No one is safe from the tsunami (except maybe for our "fiduciary" elected representatives). When it hits, tax increases and restrictions on 401k and other plans adopted for "fairness" will hit those who have saved. It's not your money, "you didn't build that," and they will be looking for ways to redistribute it. There will always be mischief when the benefits are realized today (votes in the public sector, profits in the private sector) and the costs (pension funding) are shifted to the future. For example, if the big three automakers (dating myself, a quaint expression now) had been required to charge the full cost of pension promises to the current year's bottom line, you would have seen different results. | |||
|
| Cut and plug |
Many systems do not take overtime into account when figuring pension benefits. Mine averages over three years, base pay, no OT, certification pay etc. Also I pay into my pension at a mandatory percentage that is set to almost double soon. | |||
|
| Shit don't mean shit |
The 1 example I know if is $2,400 per month. If he dies, it goes to his wife until she dies. Interestingly though, the all volunteer fire dept is always looking for new recruits, but I've never heard of anyone advertising this benefit. I would almost expect them to advertise that they are paying a pension after 20 years of volunteer service. They would probably get more people to volunteer. | |||
|
| Powered by Social Strata | Page 1 2 3 4 5 6 |
 | Please Wait. Your request is being processed... |
Topic Closed© SIGforum 2024