quote:

Originally posted by feersum dreadnaught:
Please provide suggested phrasing of such an order...

How about something like; All right any fucking commies, front and center, now give me 50 and get the fuck out of my US Military. You'll find your transfer orders to Russia, Cuba, Venezuela, North Korea and several ME countries in the office on the way the fuck out of the gate.

My guess is they will remove Rapone from any position of real authority or war fighting capability. They may offer him the option of reimbursing the government for the cost of his education in exchange for cutting him loose. He could try to crowd fund this and in so become a hero of the far left for using social media to fight the fascist forces western imperialism. Or they could just make him the OIC of something terribly unimportant for the remainder of his commitment.

he should be celebrating the fact that Bergdahl basically skated...

comparatively, how bad could Rapone be if thats what the military did for Bergdahl?

http://taskandpurpose.com/comm...t-point-grad-letter/

U.S. Military Academy superintendent Lt. Gen. Robert L. Caslen Jr. has an important message for active-duty service members and veterans outraged over the viral photos of a communist West Point graduate that circulated in September: Yes, we’re taking this seriously.

In an Oct. 11 letter to the members of the USMA community, Caslen stated that 2nd Lt. Spenser Rapone — the Afghanistan combat infantry veteran and West Point grad captured with a Che Guevara shirt under his dress uniform and a “Communism Will Win” sign under his cover — is currently subject to two ongoing investigations by both West Point and his commanders with the 10th Mountain Division for what Army Times characterized as “subversive political views.”

“It is my duty to thoroughly investigate concerns pertaining to the effectiveness of our systems and processes to maintain the outstanding quality of USMA graduates that the Nation expects,” Caslen wrote. “I am committed to fulfilling that duty to both our graduates and the American people. It is imperative that this be done right.”

more at link

So where the Hell was Gen Caslen a couple of years ago when this clown's behavior was so far out of line that one of the Military Officer Professors felt strongly enough to write that excellent letter to "the front office" reporting the cadet's actions?

I smell the distinct odor of ass covering in the General's office...

Don

quote:

Originally posted by SgtGold:
My guess is they will remove Rapone from any position of real authority or war fighting capability.

Latrine officer.

quote:

Originally posted by Shaql:

quote:

Originally posted by SgtGold:
My guess is they will remove Rapone from any position of real authority or war fighting capability.

Latrine officer.

PLO. Permanent latrine orderly.

Great movie. 'No Time for Sargents'.

As is the case in any flag command, and really any large bureaucracy, what people at the top know is generally controlled by middle management and what disseminates it's way to the top is highly filtered and controlled by agendas of th people underneath them

This isn't an excuse, the job of a true leader is to see through this and find out exactly what's going on outside of the filter provided by middle management

The problem is, when the leader gets out there, people wanting to communicate something different than the vision passed along won't for fear of reprisals from their peers who support or benefit from the "party line" and particularly for fear of reprisals from their immediate superiors who are the middle management

This is further exacerbated in a military environment with a distinct rank system and a chain of command that is beaten into you from the time you are a junior officer. What if the colonel needs to know something the major won't tell him what's a first lieutenant to do? It's a real problem that is most definitely the downside to all the benefits a cohesive rank structure and chain of command bring

But it absolutely happens. And it's further exacerbated by the political environment that was the Obama years, and the favors unworthy but politically correct candidates for command and "middle management" were shown

But this is another example of exactly that. It wouldn't surprise me one bit if the first time Caslon saw the evil of Dickhead Rappone was when it was released to you and me.

Fwiw, this kind of decay in command structure is also how you have such poor perimeter security that an entire wing of marine harriers gets wiped out sitting in their "secure" base, or how two modern naval destroyers are so fucking mismanaged that, in spite of being equipped with the best and latest radar, sonar and other technology, they can collide with ships two to three times BIGGER than the average surface combatant of an enemy navy

It's insidious and dangerous in any business, but when it happens in the military, people die

What will be telling is the number of company TAC officers that are shown the door at West Point. The captains and majors that actually deal with cadets in the cadet area (not the academic area) on a daily basis. Because THAT is where this should have been nipped in the fucking bud (that and with the cadet chain of command...although as someone who went to West Point in the wake of Panama and gulf 1 I can speak first hand to the reveranc "regular" cadets right out of high school treat the prior service guys with, especially those with combat experience)

The real problem is the turnover rate amongst those officers is the same as the rest of the military (unlike the academic staff who generally stay many years until the end of their careers) so many of the TACs that dropped the ball on this are probably gone....

I hope it follows them

quote:

Originally posted by dsmack:
So where the Hell was Gen Caslen a couple of years ago when this clown's behavior was so far out of line that one of the Military Officer Professors felt strongly enough to write that excellent letter to "the front office" reporting the cadet's actions?

I smell the distinct odor of ass covering in the General's office...

Don

quote:

Originally posted by Kevbo:
As is the case in any flag command, and really any large bureaucracy, what people at the top know is generally controlled by middle management and what disseminates it's way to the top is highly filtered and controlled by agendas of th people underneath them

Kevbo...Did you read the letter from the former professor? Just curious, because his view is that the rot came directly from the top in this case:

http://americanmilitarynews.co...andards-full-letter/

Thank you! That was the whole basis of my observation!

And this deal with the mentioned Lt is not an isolated incident... what about the group of minority female cadets who were photographed in less than complimentary situations in full Cadet regalia. They skated as well. I'm sure there many others of whom we are presently unaware.

I did. I'm trying to reserve some judgment until I know more. I have several classmates that I have a lot of respect for that respect Caslen (to put it in perspective, the people still in from my class (1995) are for the most part Colonels and brigade commanders now, getting ready to make field grade). I know some that have been professors at the academy and who work there as part of civilian think tanks

Their vision is not nearly as dire as the one painted in that letter


Not to say the LTC didn't experience what he did and see what he saw. Our opinions are formed through the lense of our experience, and had I gone through what he went through I would be just as pissed

EDIT. He thinks the trouble isn't so rampant and invasive that he thinks it may just be time to close the academy

There are other people that paint it as all teddy bears and roses, with this as just an isolated incident

The truth is probably somewhere in between, and that in and of itself is problematic because with an institution like West Point there should be zero tolerance for this shit

So what I believe is there are still men and women on staff, and in attendance, there that believe in Duty, Honor, Country the way I did and still do and still believe that the mission of the United States Military Academy is to provide the nation with leaders of character who serve the common defense.

Unfortunately, I also believe there are some fucktwits. Fwiw, there have alsways been fucktwits, and fucktwits that knew how to game the system, and ones that let them. The question is are there more now or are we just more aware of them in the era of media saturation?

Regardless, there should be, and should have always been, zero tolerance for fucktwittery

We are in a new world. One that is even drastically different from the world when I entered the Academy on R day in 1991

The military is struggling mightily with finding it's way in this new world, and the place that its way of life and traditions fit, and how they interact. It should come as no surprise that the place where those traditions are most strict and (allegedly) strictly enforced that the change would be most difficult, especially when you throw in the population they deal with.

I'm not sure that, like the author of the letter, I'm ready to close the doors and burn the place down. But there is no doubt this is a difficult time, and I, and many like me, are paying close attention to how it is resolved

The long gray line of us stretches through the years of a century told....


Edit to Add:

we also need to distinguish between the true fucktwits and behavior that, while atypical to some outside the experience, isn't fucktwtittery

For example

Somewhere, I have a picture of me in my gym alpha uniform standing next to a buddy of mine. In one hand I have a rolled up piece of paper, and in the other hand I hold a sign that says "this is a beer.." with an arrow pointed at my buddy. In his hand he holds a can of GI issue bug juice (the beer) and a sign pointing at me that says "this is a joint" (it was rolled up loose leaf paper, I promise). The back drop of the picture clearly shows we are in a barracks room

In my almost 45 years of life I have still never tried marijuana. But I shudder to think the shitstorm that would have rained down on our heads had Facebook existed, that picture had somehow been posted and someone in the chain of command gotten ahold of it. I can also tell you that I did plenty of things in the spirirt of camraderie and unit building that would make most civilian HR people have heart palpitations. I've learned the crowds I can tell those stories to over a lifetime of experience.


The Rappone shit is truly evil and worrisome not because of the pictures.....taken by themselves I know plenty of people with disturbing enough senses of humor that they would have, in jest, done similar shit. The disturbing part is when it is taken into account with the rest of his behavior

It will be a challenge, going forward, for people to sift through that shit and distinguish betweeen the two

I suspect, as is the case in the military, the pendulum will swing WAAAY back the other way and people doing stuff like I described above will get swept up in the search for the Spencer Rappone's of the world initially

quote:

Originally posted by BamaJeepster:

quote:

Originally posted by Kevbo:
As is the case in any flag command, and really any large bureaucracy, what people at the top know is generally controlled by middle management and what disseminates it's way to the top is highly filtered and controlled by agendas of th people underneath them

Kevbo...Did you read the letter from the former professor? Just curious, because his view is that the rot came directly from the top in this case:

http://americanmilitarynews.co...andards-full-letter/

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Kevbo,

quote:

Originally posted by Kevbo:
I did. I'm trying to reserve some judgment until I know more. I have several classmates that have a lot of respect for Caslen (to put it in perspective, the people still in from my class (1995) are for the most part Colonels and brigade commanders now, getting ready to make field grade). I know some that have been professors at the academy and who work there as part of civilian think tanks

Good deal. I remembered from previous posts that you had attended West Point and was curious about your views on the situation. More information is always better.

I can understand the 'times are changing / it's different now than back when we were there...'

Every generation jokes how much 'slacker' it has gotten... when I was in it was we were weak because we got to do PT in running shoes, not boots like the old-timers...

My wife laughed when she saw all the Starbucks at USMA and did the 'they didn't have these when I was here...'. Just like the generation before scoffed that she was allowed a 'stereo' as a cadet in the late '80s (or that there were women there in the first place...)

But being an avowed communist - and not making any effort to hide that - and still graduating while basically mocking / vilifying your Country / CoC is a whole other level of WTF. Plus - if the cadet's disrespect to this particular LTC is true (assuming it happened as described) and he was able to get away with that - again that is a level of WTF I can not comprehend. The phrase 'the inmates running the asylum' comes to mind.

I am sad the military seems to have taken a downturn. The naval ships crashing, the Bergdahl verdict, the Black Pantherettes / the Commie at USMA, focus on transgenderism, etc. The rot is there - I hope we can get it turned around.

------------------------------------

I agree.

I really do think a huge part of the problem is figuring out how to separate the wheat from the chaff, for lack of a better term.....there is a lot of "new"

But with the "new" there is good and bad

So if you rush to adopt the "new"!you get the good AND bad with it

And then you have to go back and weed out the bad after it's already through the gate

The academy has undergone scandals in the past and has, I believe, emerged better on the other side

My hope is, as was the case in the past, he people tasked with the fixing are good, earnest people. And I think they will be

quote:

Originally posted by SgtGold:
My guess is they will remove Rapone from any position of real authority or war fighting capability. They may offer him the option of reimbursing the government for the cost of his education in exchange for cutting him loose. He could try to crowd fund this and in so become a hero of the far left for using social media to fight the fascist forces western imperialism. Or they could just make him the OIC of something terribly unimportant for the remainder of his commitment.

Like counting penguins at the south pole!

It used to be something like "conduct unbecoming" but given the radical downturn since obummer fucked up the military, nothing surprises me.

And the fact that the military academies are so fucked up should not surprise any of us. The asshole had 8 freaking years to fuck it up.

How many flag officers were "retired" shortly after obummer was sworn in?

Been a while, and my memory is not the best anymore, but the number 300+ comes to mind.

quote:

I did. I'm trying to reserve some judgment until I know more. I have several classmates that I have a lot of respect for that respect Caslen (to put it in perspective, the people still in from my class (1995) are for the most part Colonels and brigade commanders now, getting ready to make field grade). I know some that have been professors at the academy and who work there as part of civilian think tanks

Not to say the LTC didn't experience what he did and see what he saw. Our opinions are formed through the lense of our experience, and had I gone through what he went through I would be just as pissed....
The truth is probably somewhere in between, and that in and of itself is problematic because with an institution like West Point there should be zero tolerance for this shit

Exactly how is the "truth is...somewhere in between?" We have a senior field officer that made an official report. We have a cadet that is a confessed communist and not supportive of the military and it's regulations. My guess is, save for minor details, the officer's report is accurate. Given the severity of the infraction, it rises to the level of severe punishment if not dismissal. As the cadet was not punished, it shows the problems at West Point.

I was not referring to the gentleman's assertions about the Rappone incident

I was referring to his assertion that the entire academy should be closed it's so broken


Others assert this is an isolated incident and everything is fine


it is the truth between those extremes to which I was referring


Rappone's actions, and the academy's failure to do something about it, are inexcusable

My apologies if that wasn't clear in my original post

quote:

Originally posted by Icabod:

quote:

I did. I'm trying to reserve some judgment until I know more. I have several classmates that I have a lot of respect for that respect Caslen (to put it in perspective, the people still in from my class (1995) are for the most part Colonels and brigade commanders now, getting ready to make field grade). I know some that have been professors at the academy and who work there as part of civilian think tanks

Not to say the LTC didn't experience what he did and see what he saw. Our opinions are formed through the lense of our experience, and had I gone through what he went through I would be just as pissed....
The truth is probably somewhere in between, and that in and of itself is problematic because with an institution like West Point there should be zero tolerance for this shit

Exactly how is the "truth is...somewhere in between?" We have a senior field officer that made an official report. We have a cadet that is a confessed communist and not supportive of the military and it's regulations. My guess is, save for minor details, the officer's report is accurate. Given the severity of the infraction, it rises to the level of severe punishment if not dismissal. As the cadet was not punished, it shows the problems at West Point.

Go Navy Beat Army.


That is all.

I have friends with a son at USMA. Tonight I asked them if they knew anything about the Rapone issue and they said he has been removed from active duty pending the outcome of the investigations. I don't know exactly what they will charge him with, but 'conduct unbecoming an officer' was the most likely charge. Also, due to the fact that Rapone is being dismissed from the service due to his own actions the Army is going to hit him with the bill for his entire USMA education. I could be wrong, but my friends said this is being taken very seriously and isn't being white washed.

Thank you very much for the update.