quote:

Originally posted by JohnCourage:


I have owned a lot of motorcycles brands over the years. I currently own a 2021 HD Low Rider S and it’s been great. I always find the keyboard haters funny because they are so full of shit. In real life, when your hanging out with other riders at the coffee shop, nobody gives a shit what you ride. We are into all the bikes.

I'm glad you like your bike. I do not understand the appeal of it but if you do then my opinion doesn't mean squat.
That said, at the coffee shop or bike night and especially on group rides there are very stark divisions. There are a few different cultures each with it's own ethos on what riding is about and what constitutes a "biker". Theres some overlap but not any when it comes to harley bros. They are an island unto themselves.
You basically have the following:

Harley Bros
Sport Bike Squids
ADV Dads
Sumo Hooligans
One Off Hipsters

Harley Bros fancy themselves as the only real "bikers"! Clad in pirate costumes and loudly cruising their all iron behemoths of yesteryear they are limited to very low power to weight ratios and are more of an image than an actual rider. Joining cliques within their clique further deepens this sense of identity and gives them a sense of belonging. The only rules us we know about this involves a "We don't talk about scooter club" rule and merit badges sewn onto their sexy sleeveless jackets by their wife or girlfriend. They are seen in group rides as the loudest yet lowest skilled riders and hold up the pack. 'Merica!

Sport Bike Squids are on the opposite end of the spectrum as Harley Bros. Riding bikes with a power to weight ratio that makes Ferrari jealous they typically ride like maniacs with their ass on fire and seen as the "assault rifle" to normies and cagers. Despite their faults, riding a 200hp bike that weighs just over 400 pounds develops some riding skill for those who don't turn themselves unto human crayons on the freeway doing late night pulls. To prevent this they must don the Power Ranger or "Space Ninja" apparel. Most I know go to track days and actually ride these bikes the way god intended so for that most are above average in the skillz department.

ADV Dads are the easiest to identify due to their highlighter yellow jackets and that their bikes are 6 feet tall. They are the most mild mannered of the bunch and always follow every traffic law to the letter. ADV Dads can all recite the entirety of "Long Way Around" and have enough tools, parts, gear, and bike to circumnavigate the globe at every outing. They are the most skilled riders of all and can probably scale My Everest with a goldwing.

Sumo Hooligans are the ones who get the cops called to every event they attend. They have to buy rear tires 5-1 over fronts not for burnouts but because their front tire is never touching the ground. Take a moto crosser and give him a 450 with some Michelin Road 5's on it and let the chaos ensue. Their skill lever is unknown as their bikes all top out at 60.

One Off Hipsters are the rarest to see at cruises and bike night because their one off hand made bike seldom runs long enough to get them there. New store bought one offs can include the Ducati Scrambler, Triumph Thruxton, or a Moto Guzzi for example and can usually hang. They are usually not too knowledgeable on other tribes as they stick to their particular flavor with an autistic special interest like intensity. Their skills are also unknown as most of them are rocking period correct drum brakes, have a bike that was at the first Isle of Mann, or their bike is so niche that there will never be a circumstance in which it will shine.

The one thing all tribes agree on is that the grom squads should be eliminated as they are a stain on all two wheeled enjoyment.

quote:

Originally posted by Suppressed:

quote:

Originally posted by jhe888:
For the same reason Cadillac and Lincoln will never build a Porsche 911.

Cadillac might not make a 911 but they do make some pretty sleek cars and SUVs. They make something that some people want. Now, if they continued to make a car like a 1978 Coupe de Ville, they would be going down the path of Harley Davidson.

I know a fair number of geezers who wish they would make something like a 1978 Coupe DeVille, or even better, a Sedan DeVille.

Cadi is doing better, but still have a niche. Their only car that they have that really sells is the Escalade. Of course, that may be enough.

But that wasn't my point. The point is that Harley knows what its customers want. They are apparently content to let riders who want something else go hang.

Does anyone remember BUELL? THAT, was their sports model lineup/entree. They blew that one too. Willie G Davidson is a moron and he should stick to writing books.

For the record HD blew the opportunity of owning MV Augusta too, one of the winningest brands in motorcycle Grand Prix racing history. Look at that run and tell me that wasn’t amazing. I dare you. Fuck HD for blowing a golden opportunity. FN’ losers.

Not sure that MV Augusta wanted to be owned by HD, that whole scenario ended up like Ford/Ferrari, where Ferrari just leveraged the US company to get what it wanted from another source.

Frankly if they did buy MV Augusta, the same guys would just bitch about how they ruined it, it doesn't matter what HD does or doesn't do, some folks just don't like the brand, kind of like Glock vs Sig debate...

You know, one day, you'll own a Harley

I personally do not feel like I have been attacked, but there is so much good stuff in this thread that I hope it keeps going for a long time.

I'm brand agnostic. The first bike I ever rode was a Harley Davidson KHK, the flathead predecessor of the Sportster. Owned and loved vintage and modern BMW flat twins, BSA Thunderbolt and Gold Star (later one not the classic), Laverda, Yamaha Triple, RD 350 (air cooled and water cooled) RD 400, and Honda CBX (rocket ship).

I like them all including most Harleys. I've gotten too old to ride, but still miss it. My son's Sportster is in my garage and keeps calling my name.

HRK you cannot argue they blew an opportunity to inject some racing into their bloodlines. When you look at the history of racing at the top level you cannot help but respect what MV Agusta achieved. Grand Prix motorcycle racing enthusiasts will not disagree with me. A run like that is probably impossible to achieve right now.

FUCK HD for not having the vision to capitalize on a golden opportunity that may never come again.

Look at this closely and tell me I’m way off base.

A seventeen year straight lock on the championship. THAT is complete and total domination.

Hardly was not worthy and blew a GOLDEN opportunity to learn about greatness.

I first starting riding HD in the 1950s.....a bobtail flathead hill climber. I have been through the Triumph TR6, and Bonneville......fun bikes!! Rode a Norton 750 for a bit. Then a 1961 HD XLCH sporty that was an awesome ride. I kept it many years. Then came one of the newer 1200cc HD sportys and had a blast on it. Spent a little time on a "DUCK" 750........it was toooooo much for this old fart!! Last bike is a '97 HD springer. I have put almost 100K miles on it, and love it on the road, and around town. I finally had to say "no more", but can't bring myself to sell it.

To say that I only like HD would be untrue. I have ridden and owned some great bikes in my lifetime.......and loved every minute of it.

I think it's funny that so many get so bent out of shape because Harley Davidson doesn't make a sport bike.

Do you get that pissed off because Hyundai doesn't make a 3/4 ton diesel truck?

Jeebus. If you don't want what Harley Davidson sells, buy something else.

Harley had a decent racer in the 70's - the XR-750.
They could have brought out a street legal version of it and they didn't even do that way back when.

quote:

Originally posted by Ryanp225:


Harley Bros
Sport Bike Squids
ADV Dads
Sumo Hooligans
One Off Hipsters

I know you mentioned the sport bike guys you personally know who do trackdays, etc. But there is another type of rider who wears an A*, Dainese, etc, suit, quality Sidi or A* boots, top shelf helmet, armored gloves, etc. They ride sportbikes, do track days to keep the skill sharp and are on the pointy end of all this. I’m one of these. But this same type of rider does the ADV’s too, Multistradas, etc. Most of the older gentleman who are on ADV’s, Multistradas, standards, etc, have just gotten old and don’t want the leaned over sportbike riding position. I’ve tried to talk many out of this bike swap. I mean if you swap the clip ons out, get a better seat, and rearsets, it’s a massive difference. But it is what it is. Real riders don’t really give a fuck about coffee meet ups, don’t ride and go to bars (Hardly is king of this bullshit), etc. I mean I’ve seen the HardlyBros, fire it up, meet up with their ilk of 3-10 others, ride 3 or 5 miles and park it at the fucking bars. It’s hilarious. But anyway, the real riders are in full gear, say Fuck commuting (death sentence with the phone in a major city), do track days not out of ego, but to keep the cornering and braking, sharp as a tack, at 30, 40, 50, 60, etc. I’ve done track days with a 67 year old, and I’m pretty damn quick and sharp, and I’d be putting in work keeping up with that fucker. He was fast, smooth, and didn’t even really move around the bike that much. Meanwhile at 6’2” and 225 lbs of a lot of muscle, I move around a lot due to my weight as riding corners hard on the street in the twisties (at the PACE) is a different riding technique than the track for me. These types of armored up riders aren’t the squids in their 20’s trying to corner, writing checks with their bullshit that their skill cannot cash. They know what they are doing. Bike to bike communicators, group rides are small with 2, 3, maybe 4 max, and go on trips sport touring, etc. All geared up, Navi with GPS because they are so hardcore that got damn phone ain’t baller enough. But I will agree with you, that this type of educated, skilled rider, on a multitude of different types of bike, is may 2% out of 100%. Most are as you said. The squids make me irate too. I can hear them doing highway pulls on Thurs-Sat night, late at night, from my backyard, on the tollway. They give the rest of us a bad bad name. I’ve been randomly pulled over, for nothing, just to get all my shit ran through the computer. I ask why in the fuck I got pulled over and the first comment was “I’m surprised you didn’t try to run”. I think they were seriously trying to egg on a chase to get that $ money for their municipality. And they are not happy when I pull the helmet off, I’m not a kid, and they check the plate and it’s current sticker, etc. One guy gave me a warning for nothing, accusing me of speeding. LMAO, my speedo is corrected and not stock. I run a V1 and know where they are and I was going under the limit in a known high LE area.

It just is what it is. And it’s across the board. Here in TX, you see jacked up trucks all the time. Raptors, TRX or whatever the Dodge equivalent is, etc. 33’s, and you can tell the bed has never been used, and the hitch ball is spotless without a mark on it. Thing has never seen off road nothing. Like a Hardly Ableson, it’s all for show/image. Same goes for sports cars around here too. I’ll see something like a GT3 or Cayman GT4, R35, whatever, and ask the guy if he does twisties (rural) or trackdays or both, nope. Same thing, fucking thing was bought for image and attention getting and zero driving, zero, for what the thing was built for. So motorcycles are no different than the SUV, Truck, sports car market. Chad and Karen live their entire lives for image, and zero to do with any substance. Fake ass lives. I drive a lil EV hatchback as a DD and I cannot count how many times I’ve been told “Why don’t you get rid of that thing and get a Tesla?” Well that’s an easy answer, it was $19.7k, and it’s my DD. I don’t buy vehicles for got damn image. I’ve ordered a GRC Circuit Edition for my 50th and it will never see a commute or parked anywhere. It’s the winter/inclement motorcycle for cornering when it’s too cold, or raining where I don’t or can’t ride a motorcycle to hit the same corners. I can’t wait for the comments. “You’ve got 2 hatchbacks, why?” Chad and Karen, even the motorcyclist versions, are fucking idiots dude.

quote:

Originally posted by Gustofer:
I think it's funny that so many get so bent out of shape because Harley Davidson doesn't make a sport bike.

Do you get that pissed off because Hyundai doesn't make a 3/4 ton diesel truck?

Jeebus. If you don't want what Harley Davidson sells, buy something else.

They basically owned the Ferrari of motorcycles and did NOTHING with it . Fuck them.

quote:

Originally posted by jhe888:

I know a fair number of geezers who wish they would make something like a 1978 Coupe DeVille, or even better, a Sedan DeVille.

Brougham! I miss being able to have a large, comfortable, smooth riding sedan. (I had a '96 Sedan DeVille.)

My Tesla 3 has the most driver's room of any car I've tried. The Escalade is OK, but it's a bit cramped in the driver's seat. My F150 has shrunk quite a bit, as well.

(My 2013 Ram was the last roomy vehicle I had.)

quote:

Originally posted by WaterburyBob:
Harley had a decent racer in the 70's - the XR-750.
They could have brought out a street legal version of it and they didn't even do that way back when.

HD reserved a whole set of bleachers for their fans on one side of Daytona International Speedway. It was called " Harley Heaven."

The XR-750 had some problems, but was a good try.
Somewhere, I have an old photo of one burning on the red-flagged track at Road Atlanta, under a huge plume of black smoke.

quote:

Originally posted by Gustofer:
I think it's funny that so many get so bent out of shape because Harley Davidson doesn't make a sport bike.

Do you get that pissed off because Hyundai doesn't make a 3/4 ton diesel truck?

Jeebus. If you don't want what Harley Davidson sells, buy something else.

I know, seriously, like being upset that Glock doesn't make a full metal 1911........

quote:

Originally posted by stickman428:
They basically owned the Ferrari of motorcycles and did NOTHING with it . Fuck them.

Regarding MV, could it be they figured out quickly that it wouldn't blend with the corporate structure, was going to be expensive to run and smartly divested it to someone who'll do better with it.

It’s not the same thing as being upset Hyundai doesn’t make a full size diesel truck. That’s a bad analogy. Would you pay double the price for a 1960’s technology automobile that was way too heavy, brakes not on par with say a Camry, Accord, acceleration figures of decades ago? Harley is just marketing/image. That’s all it is, and all its ever been. I mean if they charged a much lower price for their antiquated motorcycles, cool. But it’s been the opposite, they cost MORE. It’s like paying 60k for a brand new 1970’s Civic with a fancy Honda logo on it. That’s the analogy I think of. I think most people would rather get a latest spec Civic, for 30k. Nostalgia is a powerful drug.

quote:

Originally posted by HRK:

quote:

Originally posted by Gustofer:
I think it's funny that so many get so bent out of shape because Harley Davidson doesn't make a sport bike.

Do you get that pissed off because Hyundai doesn't make a 3/4 ton diesel truck?

Jeebus. If you don't want what Harley Davidson sells, buy something else.

I know, seriously, like being upset that Glock doesn't make a full metal 1911........

FUCK GLOCK!

Or, it could be, that some guys just want to buy an iconic American made motorcycle that happens to meet their needs.

Perhaps I'm a one off, but not likely. I grew up on Hondas, starting with a Z50A in about 1971. Got an XR75 a year later. Raced it once. Owned a 1985 XR350R and an XRL250 that I rode in the Alligator Dual Sport ride in Daytona one year when I was there working as a volunteer corner official. I also rode it in an enduro in south Mississppi one time. Probably the only entrant back then with electric start . I've owned several street bikes, mostly Hondas and a couple of Yamaha dirt bikes.

I commuted to work in Washington DC from Springfield VA one summer in order to use the carpool lanes. That was on a Honda CB700SC Nighthawk that I kept the longest of all my street bikes until.....

I rode that Nighthawk to Daytona for bike week several times from Mobile, AL to work the corners during the races. I rode it up and down the Blue Ridge Parkway and Skyline Drive one summer to go to a wedding in PA. I taught motorcycle safety classes after being certified by the MSF for many years while I was in the Coast Guard, one in NYC on Governor's Island.

I don't know if that makes me any of those stereotype of bikers, but I really don't care either. I sold the Nighthawk when I left DC in 98 and with 2 young kids figured my street bike days were over.

Then about to turn 40 in 2000 I got the bug again but decided I just wanted a simple bike for tooling around having fun on. I had always thought I might get a Harley if they made one that appealed to me. I liked that XR750 racer and wasn't into a big chromed out touring bike so I had never seriously considered the brand.

Then they made the FXDX Dyna Sport in all black with twin front disc brakes, adjustable suspension, simple styling and the twin cam 88 motor. Simple, light weight and to me very good looking with all black motor, pipes, bars and no fairing or windshield.

I got mine for free in 2000 from a dealer in Pensacola when I bought a $12000 tee shirt . No Stage 3 kit for me, no mods other than a detachable backrest and some grips and pegs. Bought some soft sided generic saddle bags, Hein Gericke jacket and a Bell helmet. Wear jeans and back in the day my CG flight boots, no biker colors or HD gear for me.
My bike is so quiet you can't hear it idling at a stoplight. Some think its a Sportster, but its not and if they ask I correct them but if not who cares.

I've ridden it to Daytona for bike week from Memphis with no fairing and froze my ass off in pouring rain on the way back home. Coldest I've ever been I think. Ruined those old CG flight boots. Last Sep we had a beautiful weather week and I was off so I took it on a 4 day solo ride on the Natchez Trace from top to bottom.

I don't ride it that often, but I love having it and sometimes I do ride to a bar or a dealer event with a couple of my friends as well. It runs like a champ and has never left me stranded, doesn't leak oil and as I mentioned it is very quiet. Yes its down on power significantly to a 600 sport bike but it has more than enough to get me into trouble and I'm not interested in trying to keep up with any wannabe racers. I just want to ride my bike when I want for my enjoyment.

Its too bad that HD has failed to innovate and try to develop new customers while still catering to their base but that is the way it goes. I've not been that impressed with the management for several years but if they end up going under I won't lose too much sleep over it.

I guess I just wanted to ramble as I too feel some of this Harley hate is a bit much. I understand it to a degree, but not all of us are trying to prove anything, we just want to ride what we want to ride.

I wanted American made, when did that become persona non grata here on SigForum? They made one I liked so I bought it and have enjoyed it for 23+ years now.

Couple of pics from my trip down the Natchez Trace Pkwy last Sep. Can't believe its almost been a year since that ride!