I'm not putting this so much on HD, but on the so-called "marketing experts" that they have hired to show them in what direction easily-harvested profits lie. Seems like corporate management, in general, these days shows little desire to challenge (bad) advice provided by consultants, almost all of which have a "social justice" agenda as their primary motivation indicating to me that they are receiving third-party funding to solidify their opinions. OTOH, HD management ostensibly hired these "experts" to do their worst sothey share at least some of the blame. Probably more of an indication about how deep into corporate ownership and corporate financing leftists billionaires have entangled themselves.

Until the owners of these companies (shareholders) hold executives feet to the fire, this seems unlikely to change. Of course, this might happen only after their businesses have gone to hell, and profits, and share prices have gone into the tank (pretty much the only things that shareholders pay attention to, on the fear side of the equation anyway).

WRT to the specifics of HD's "Attack on Conservatives," the hiring statement. This IMO is somewhat of an exaggeration, perhaps even rising to the level of false outrage. I very much doubt that HD is trying to attack or antagonize anyone, more like they are saying to a certain group of who they have identified as a potential under-served market "see millenials, we aren't so bad. Cast aside your purported reasons for not considering our products." Of course, this completely misses the point that, from a certain perspective, big, noisy, gas-guzzling motorcycles are "icky."

quote:

Originally posted by V-Tail:

… but we had a problem because some of the gang members did not understand the proper sequence: FIRST you pillage, THEN you burn.

Did they rape the cattle and stampede the womenfolk, too?

quote:

You do realize Cadillac makes a sports car based on the corvette right? That’s a terrible argument on your part. Do better next time.

You do realize they haven't built that car since 2009, right?

quote:

Originally posted by Cookster:
“Everything woke turns to shit.”

- PDJT

"Everything the Left touches, it destroys."

- Dennis Prager

quote:

Originally posted by ArtieS:

quote:

You do realize Cadillac makes a sports car based on the corvette right? That’s a terrible argument on your part. Do better next time.

You do realize they haven't built that car since 2009, right?

But they did build a car based off the Corvette platform. HD never built a bike on their own that could compete with the SV or Monster because they don’t really care about making fun bikes for newer riders. This is one of the reasons their brand is slowly dying.

You guys are making my argument for me. Viewing them as a moto equivalent of Cadillac or Lincoln is not how HD riders view their bikes. That in itself is a flawed argument.

Rather than my usual response - to the HD fans on here, what is it about them which appeals, over Indian/Goldwings/the other touring bikes.

quote:

Originally posted by ArtieS:

quote:

You do realize Cadillac makes a sports car based on the corvette right? That’s a terrible argument on your part. Do better next time.

You do realize they haven't built that car since 2009, right?

Artie is right, and it didn't sell anyway. Which is why they don't make it any more.

Reinforcing the point that not all companies can or should be all things to all people.

Companies should attempt to attract buyers and not focus on a niche unless it is something they do better than everyone else.

For a country that makes amazing muscle cars our motorcycle game is weak and pathetic and I believe the lack of vision from HD is mostly to blame.

That electric bike was them realizing this far too late.

All corporations are mismanaged, and on a path to bankruptcy.

Consider the rewards of attempting to attract new riders:

The Grom has been Honda's top-selling streetbike in the U.S. since it was introduced. Worldwide, more than 750,000 have been sold . And over the past few years Honda's miniMOTO lineup has expanded to include the Monkey, Super Cub C125, and Trail 125, all powered by the same 125cc air-cooled Single.

Link to stat: https://ridermagazine.com/2021...20has%20been%20Honda's,same%20125cc%20air%2Dcooled%20Single.

I’m not saying HD should build a Grom but it clearly can be seen there is money to be made by taking a risk and trying different things to attract new riders.

For a company that prides itself on a commitment to v twins they never really attempted to take on two of the best V twins on the market.

That was very stupid of them. How can you think that was a good move? Explain that to me.

I am just going to comment on the part of the article dealing with "ban the box" Lots of folk get into trouble and then are 'locked' out of good jobs because of that "box" and many will be good employees and loyal and grateful. I know I may get harped on for this but if you have ever helped someone re-launch their life it is a wonderful thing.

So I actually applaud Harley for taking this initiative. Just because some fancy wordsmith pontificates a connection to liberal ideology does not mean that the actual policy is a bad one.

quote:

Originally posted by jhe888:

quote:

Originally posted by ArtieS:

quote:

You do realize Cadillac makes a sports car based on the corvette right? That’s a terrible argument on your part. Do better next time.

You do realize they haven't built that car since 2009, right?

Artie is right, and it didn't sell anyway. Which is why they don't make it any more.

Reinforcing the point that not all companies can or should be all things to all people.

No, but since then they have continued to make performance models that do sell well with the various CTS-V and Blackwing lines that can arguably compete with or better anything in their segment. Cadillac's demographic was stodgy old man and Mary K lady, but they came out swinging and produced a number of vehicles that can generate excitement in a younger generation, without alienating any of their existing demographic. Harley Davidson could do the same and they've tried a few times, but they haven't executed very well.

Give me a sporty, comfortable cruiser that comes in close to 200 hp and under 550 lbs and doesn't put hard parts on the ground at 10 degrees of lean angle and I'll start to get interested. Outside of that, I've ridden and otherwise demo'd quite a few Harleys, and I was never on one that inspired me.

quote:

Originally posted by Sig2340:

quote:

Originally posted by V-Tail:

… but we had a problem because some of the gang members did not understand the proper sequence: FIRST you pillage, THEN you burn.

Did they rape the cattle and stampede the womenfolk, too?

All new prospects had to sign the Waiver before getting the gang's patch tattooed on their backs. The Waiver limited activites to those that were specifically enumerated. Due to an oversight on the part of the secretary, raping and stampeding were omitted from the list of approved activites.

Where exactly is the "attack" they've launched on conservatives?

They should have enthusiastically supported Eric Buell.

The V-Rod was supposed to be a bridge, the future of Harley.

But while that and the Buell were bridges they still needed a bike that could compete price and engineering wise. Harley had one time was affiliated with Aeromacci of Italy, that is how they had the two strokes, the Sprints of the 60’s and 70’s. Why couldn’t they contract with someone like Ducati, Aprilla, some smaller manufacturer to make entry level bikes again markets under the Harley-Davidson name?

They certainly cannot fall back on the Livewire, a 23k electric motorcycle with a 95-150 mile range that takes one hour to charge using its DC “fast charge”. Harley still owns a majority percentage, last thing I read was 74% ownership. The Livewire is being marketed as a separate franchise at select dealerships, similar to how Buell was sold and serviced.

And as a P.S., a sentence from Livewire’s “Visit our locations” page: Each of our unconventional spaces is thoughtfully designed to serve as a calm retreat.

Someone hasn't been in an HD showroom lately LOL, just FYI, I like looking at and can appreciate the power and tech of the metric bikes but I'd never buy one, for many reasons.

The idea that HD isn't doing things to attract youth riders (I don't mean 10 year olds) is just hater fodder, and it's not accurate, HD has done plenty over the years with the higher HP sport bike market, it's just not good at it, Buell was a big investment that didn't turn out good, for many reasons, but the bikes were not one of them. People just don't want to pay $25K at an HD dealer, btw Buell is back in business.

The new Sportster line, which is designed for the younger market, has an all new engine, 121 hp overhead cam, VVT, triple modes for different riding conditions, ABS, Traction control, clearly well optioned and the hard core bike of the line. Not it's not a crotch rocket 200 HP Metric race bike, but then again, that isn't HD's buyers. It's still good looking fast, well made high tech cool looking bike.



Big Twin wise the Low Rider ST IMHO is bad ass, 114 CUI light weight Milwaukee 8 valve twin cam, it's quick, handles well, and it it wasn't for the mid controls I'd have one to replace my full size old man heavy touring bike. Rode the demo at Daytona and it was a blast, and the one with the optional 121, holy crap it moved, not your 500 pound sport bike fast, but then again, Those bikes are for a different type of rider.



HD really invested into a different market with the Pan America Adventure bikes, everything on that is new, engine, frame, tech, I've ridden these and they are a hoot! Lots of power, front wheel lifting power, comfortable, and guess what, sold out... Hmmm now how did HD manage to build a bike not for fat old dying greybeards that has been accepted by the adventure bike community....

I'm a Harley guy. I've owned 7 total and 2 currently. I don't see any politics on display at my local dealer or any of the shops I've stopped at from Texas to the East coast. I've not taken my bike further West than that. Phobia about crossing deserts alone.

I agree that the brand is killing itself with it's failure to attract younger riders. It shouldn't be that hard to keep making the bikes those of us going a little grey like and also build bikes for the younger market. The Sportster S is an attempt, but it doesn't quite fit the bill. I agree they should have kept Buell around.

It's not unique to Harley though. Look what happened to Victory / Indian. Polaris owned Victory and was marketing them as a slightly more modern take on the Harley cruiser archetype. The styling was a bit edgier, the tech was a bit newer, but they still attracted riders in my demographic.

Then Polaris bought Indian. Indian is a brand with some serious history and appeal. What they should have done is leaned HARD into that and make Indians as old school as they could on the outside while cramming new features and tech into the engineering. Aim Indian directly at the traditionalist Harley rider.

They could have then taken Victory the opposite direction and done what Harley very briefly started to do with Buell. Sportier handling smaller bikes with more aggressive styling. Cruisers to appeal to the taste of the younger market.

They could have cut Harley's legs out from under them by poaching from their target market and taken the next generation of customers as well.

Instead, they killed Victory and started blinging up Indian. Indian had a great history. What it didn't have was an established service network or a clear view of who it was targeting.

Harley remains the king of the hill for American built bikes and stuck in its ultimately self destructive cycle of either only making the same bike over and over again (don't be wrong, I LOVE my Roadking) or producing something no one wants (looking at you Livewire).

I wish they'd taken the best part of the Vrod, the motor, and built a new generation of bikes around it. I had an early Vrod. The cooling system was crap and it leaked constantly. The electrical system had some gremlins. The seating position wasn't thought out well. That motor though... That motor was a work of art. Huge wide power band, plenty of power, plenty of torque, and a unique sound.

If they'd had a trained maintenance department ready to work on those bikes when they came out and ironed out some of the issues, I'd still own that one. Absolute hoot to take on short hops.

I wouldn't call that opinion piece journalism. Hiring felon's is becoming standard practice since businesses need to to be able to staff themselves

quote:

Originally posted by redstone:
I am just going to comment on the part of the article dealing with "ban the box" Lots of folk get into trouble and then are 'locked' out of good jobs because of that "box" and many will be good employees and loyal and grateful. I know I may get harped on for this but if you have ever helped someone re-launch their life it is a wonderful thing.

So I actually applaud Harley for taking this initiative. Just because some fancy wordsmith pontificates a connection to liberal ideology does not mean that the actual policy is a bad one.

I can appreciate your sympathy for felons. However, they are the ones who chose the path they chose, society did not "do this to them." Plus, if there were no consequences to breaking the law, who would be bothered to obey it?

Have you looked at recidivism rates? It appears that most incarcerated criminals never learn from their mistakes. Why is it laudable that a corporation might want to avoid protecting its customers and itself from the depredations of sociopaths? Those offenders who try to straighten up have many avenues of assistance, and ample opportunities to demonstrate their sincerity. I admire such, and welcome their contribution to the common good. Sadly, those that make an effort to assist ex-offenders often become their next victims.

I think this whole effort to "protect" those from the consequences of their poor life choices is a net negative to society, and demeans those of us who have chosen to live in harmony with, and respect our fellow man.