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posted
So much to comment and none of it is rational...

A Weed man set on fire by a police stun gun is fighting for life as his family looks for answers
quote:
A Weed man who was shot with a police stun gun while doused in a flammable liquid is fighting for his life in a Sacramento-area hospital with burns covering 70% of his body.

According to family members, Paul Jason Hall or "PJ" Hall, 47, was "crying out for help," when he threatened to light himself on fire in his downtown Weed home on Oct. 12.

When Hall — who has a history of mental health issues — wouldn't drop a lighter he was holding, a Weed police officer used his stun gun on Hall, igniting the liquid and setting him on fire, according to Hall's nephew.

"As soon as the Taser was deployed, the fire literally hit the ceiling," said Spencer Hall, nephew of PJ Hall, who used his knowledge as an EMT to treat his uncle while onlookers pooled and emergency responders rushed to the scene.

The officer and PJ Hall were each taken to hospitals immediately following the fire. But Hall isn't guaranteed to recover, according to family members. The extent of the burns on his skin leaves him especially vulnerable to infection, complications of which are one of the leading causes of death for burn victims.

"He’s pretty heavily sedated because the pain would be unbearable if he wasn’t," Spencer Hall said.

Per protocol, the Siskiyou County Sheriff's Office has opened an investigation into the use of force. The Weed Police Department has not yet named the officer who was involved, but a sergeant said he had worked for the agency for about a year.

Family asks why this had to happen

As the Halls hope for recovery, they're still trying to figure out why the officer used his stun gun on their relative in the first place.

"There was just no regard for deescalating the situation," Spencer Hall said. "It was force from the get-go. And I don’t know why."

That sentiment was echoed by Bob Hall, who is PJ Hall's father, a city councilman and a former mayor of Weed. The elder Hall is raising questions about the quality of police training and officers' attitudes toward the people they encounter.

The former mayor said he wished the officer would have made a better effort to negotiate with his son before resorting to force. He questioned why the officer used a stun gun while his son appeared to be covered in a flammable substance.

"I think he should be trained for that situation," Bob Hall said. "There was no threat. My son wasn't threatening anybody. Nobody else was in any danger. There was nothing going on except he was crying out for help."

Bob Hall said concerns about the relationship between police and civilians aren't confined to Weed or Siskiyou County, speaking broadly about what he sees as systemic problems. He said he came across police training videos on the internet in which officers use war-like terms to describe their patrol beats, which Hall argues instill a dangerous "Us vs. Them" mentality.

"To me, that's just the opposite of what they should be doing," he said. "We have them for our safety, and they're being trained as if it's a war out there."

Bob Hall said he has brought the issue up to local law enforcement officials in the past and said he'll continue to discuss it.

"That's about all I can do," Hall said. "I can hope and pray that my son recovers. We're putting a lot of energy into that."

Who is PJ Hall?

PJ Hall has been like a father figure to Spencer Hall for much of his life.

The 23-year-old talked about trips to San Francisco with his uncle to see 49ers games and watching fireworks from Chinatown.

He talked about how PJ Hall went out of his way to help friends. He had raised his own kids and coached youth teams in the area. Readers of the Mt. Shasta News have seen his name show up in stories playing bocce and volunteering.

"If you're a good person, he's going to treat you like a good person," Spencer Hall said.

So what led to PJ Hall dousing himself in a flammable substance?

According to his father, he had fallen behind on bills and was stressed about a January incident in which he was accused of battery on a police officer after being pulled over.

In 2009, the 47-year-old had been arrested and pleaded guilty to possession of a controlled substance and possession of an assault weapon. But family members say Hall isn't a danger to anyone except himself.

"He doesn't do anything other than crazy stuff with himself," his father said. "He never harms anybody. He rages every now and then when he's not right, but he's never been violent."

Spencer Hall said when he showed up to his uncle's home on Oct. 12, his uncle wasn't acting violently or resisting arrest. He was sitting in a corner of a room and looking away from the officer, who was trying to get him to drop a lighter.

"I said, 'PJ listen to me, this isn’t your life,' and he looked at me and said 'No, this is my life now,' and I said 'No, it's not,' and he was pleading with me," the 23-year-old said. "Then the cop just said, 'If you don’t put the lighter down in 3, 2, 1 — Taser, Taser Taser.'"

Spencer Hall joined in his grandfather's calls for better police training, especially when it comes to deescalation.

"I hope that people understand that mental illness is a real thing," Spencer Hall said."It's just wild to me that he would even think about tasing somebody covered in fuel."

The family has set up a GoFundMe page to cover PJ Hall's expenses while he tries to recover with the goal of raising $10,000.

Weed police Sgt. Justin Mayberry said his agency is essentially unable to comment on the situation as it is the subject of a sheriff's office investigation. He said the officer involved in the incident has not yet returned to work, away with injury, but did not describe the extent of his injures.

Mayberry said the officer involved had been trained to use his stun gun. Training involves written, digital and physical components that every officer must pass if they are to carry a stun gun.

Mayberry said the police will name the officer "possibly when everything gets further down the road."

"I haven’t watched the video so I can't say, 'This is what occurred.' I haven’t spoken to the officer, so I haven’t gotten his side of the story," Mayberry said. "I’m letting (investigators) do their jobs and go from there."


Didn't realize Weed had a police department, its a very small town on the Northwestern edge of Mt.Shasta along I-5. There's a handful of wealthy landholders and retirees, along with a menagerie of new age hippies (the mtn attracts such), a few business owners and a bunch of rednecks. Meth is a major problem much like fentanyl is back East.

Using a Taser in combination of flammable/combustable fuel...what could happen? Roll Eyes

Father is former mayor and a current councilman...would be very interesting as to what Mr Hall has done to fund, support and improve PD training. Scolding and castigating the local PD doesn't work Mr Hall.

PJ Hall was a known person to the local PD, priors for assault, assault on a PD, and drug possession. Mr Hall, your son is a mess.
 
Posts: 15180 | Location: Wine Country | Registered: September 20, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I'll bet a lot more than Weed was involved. Maybe the cop should have shot the lighter out of his hand with his sixgun.
 
Posts: 2559 | Location: WI | Registered: December 29, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by corsair:
Using a Taser in combination of flammable/combustable fuel...what could happen? Roll Eyes

Father is former mayor and a current councilman...would be very interesting as to what Mr Hall has done to fund, support and improve PD training. Scolding and castigating the local PD doesn't work Mr Hall.

PJ Hall was a known person to the local PD, priors for assault, assault on a PD, and drug possession. Mr Hall, your son is a mess.
What a shit show!

I imagine a small town doesn't have trained negotiators to talk down a crazy person doused in gasoline and holding a lighter. When a small-town LEO is in a room with someone doused in gasoline I'm betting it's pretty close to a no win situation. Guns and tasers can ignite the gasoline, and expandable baton or going hands-on puts the LEO at unnecessary risk. Seems like pepper spray and talking would be the best tools for this high probability of failure scenario.

Typical family bullshit though. Fucktard of a kid has assaulted a LEO in the past but father still claims he has never been violent.



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Posts: 23940 | Location: Northern Suburbs of Houston | Registered: November 14, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Let me be blunt, such jokes are in bad taste, but the victim is, literally, smoking Weed.

******************************************

Mr. Weed's long-term burn care and rehab is going to get very expensive. I pity the medical personnel who get to do that with a mentally ill patient. Their salaries are no where near enough to get me to do that job.





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Posts: 32370 | Location: Loudoun County, Virginia | Registered: May 17, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Mr. Weed's long-term burn care and rehab is going to get very expensive. I pity the medical personnel who get to do that with a mentally ill patient. Their salaries are no where near enough to get me to do that job.

^^^^^^^^^^^
Now that he is getting medical care, he will get psychiatric help. Antipsychotics and psychotherapy have come a long way. He will be sedated for sure.
 
Posts: 17695 | Location: Stuck at home | Registered: January 02, 2015Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by corsair:
PJ Hall was a known person to the local PD, priors for assault, assault on a PD, and drug possession.

No one to blame but himself. The family is always concerned After the Fact.


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Posts: 13520 | Location: Bottom of Lake Washington | Registered: March 06, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by braillediver:
quote:
Originally posted by corsair:
PJ Hall was a known person to the local PD, priors for assault, assault on a PD, and drug possession.

No one to blame but himself. The family is always concerned After the Fact.


This 100%


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Posts: 36934 | Location: 45174 | Registered: December 09, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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In cases such as this, a bean bag weapon or other less lethal weapon is the option. And no guarantee of success, either. But hard to deploy in a living room. The Taser can be effective, but not in this scenario.
And the spiel about how wonderful the dude is is BS and an attempt at winning the ghetto lottery.
If he was was minding his own biz,(while marinated in unleaded) and not a threat, then why call the cops?


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Posts: 16553 | Location: Marquette MI | Registered: July 08, 2014Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Seems like pepper spray and talking would be the best tools for this high probability of failure scenario.


A fire extinguisher or high pressure hose also works well.


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Posts: 15945 | Location: St. Charles, MO, USA | Registered: September 22, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Damned when he did react, damned had he not reacted. No win.

All viable alternatives mentioned, if even available, in just seconds or minutes.
 
Posts: 11210 | Location: Somewhere north of a hot humid hell in the summer | Registered: January 09, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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If the dude doused himself in gasoline, has a lighter & is making self-harm threats....I'd expect him to set himself on fire & keep some distance between myself & him.

Definitely wouldn't expect someone else to do the work for him though.



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Posts: 2001 | Location: Goodbye, so. Fla. | Registered: January 26, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by az4783054:
Damned when he did react, damned had he not reacted. No win.

All viable alternatives mentioned, if even available, in just seconds or minutes.


Yep. Sums it up nicely. I think the police should stop responding to things of this nature to be blunt.




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Posts: 37291 | Location: Logical | Registered: September 12, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I have a family member who won't take his meds and has issues to the point his father had to seek a protective order and no member of his family will take him in.

If he presented a threat to others and law enforcement was needed, I'd definitely expect him to be clubbed like a baby seal.

Helping him set himself on fire is kind of a stretch, but do agree if the family has been enabling Monsieur they are definitely part of the problem.



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Posts: 2001 | Location: Goodbye, so. Fla. | Registered: January 26, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by jljones:
quote:
Originally posted by az4783054:
Damned when he did react, damned had he not reacted. No win.

All viable alternatives mentioned, if even available, in just seconds or minutes.


Yep. Sums it up nicely. I think the police should stop responding to things of this nature to be blunt.


I thought the same thing years ago.



Tasing him probably wasn't the thing to do.
Mace? Probably not gonna work the way you want it. Especially on crazy, mace just don't work on crazy.

Bean bag is a nice option IF it's readily available.

Talking sometimes works, talking sometimes doesn't.

What would have probably really helped in this situation would have been to get lil Paulie to a good head dr YEARS AGO! But that would take the family admitting there's a problem, then actually stepping up and doing something about the problem. But responsibility sucks, so let's hope this problem goes away, or at least doesn't turn into a big problem.

Oh, it turned into a big problem... Doused in gasoline, right smack dab in the living room....

Fuck!

Call someone else to deal with this problem.


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“What the government is good at is collecting taxes, taking away your freedoms and killing people. It’s not good at much else.” —Author Tom Clancy
 
Posts: 8650 | Location: Attempting to keep the noise down around Midway Airport | Registered: February 14, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by soflaac:
I have a family member who won't take his meds and has issues to the point his father had to seek a protective order and no member of his family will take him in.

If he presented a threat to others and law enforcement was needed, I'd definitely expect him to be clubbed like a baby seal.

Helping him set himself on fire is kind of a stretch though.



Your family member needs to get some help!
NOW!

ESPECIALLY if (s)he is a danger to themself or others. Get them to a treatment facility / hospital.


______________________________________________________________________
"When its time to shoot, shoot. Dont talk!"

“What the government is good at is collecting taxes, taking away your freedoms and killing people. It’s not good at much else.” —Author Tom Clancy
 
Posts: 8650 | Location: Attempting to keep the noise down around Midway Airport | Registered: February 14, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by CPD SIG:
Your family member needs to get some help!
NOW!

ESPECIALLY if (s)he is a danger to themself or others. Get them to a treatment facility / hospital.


I doubt that anyone dealing with mentally ill people can force them to take the medicine that helps keep them on an even keel. Or compel them to seek / accept treatment.

Institutionalized maybe. On the streets, nah.



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Posts: 2001 | Location: Goodbye, so. Fla. | Registered: January 26, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by soflaac:
quote:
Originally posted by CPD SIG:
Your family member needs to get some help!
NOW!

ESPECIALLY if (s)he is a danger to themself or others. Get them to a treatment facility / hospital.


I doubt that anyone dealing with mentally ill people can force them to take the medicine that helps keep them on an even keel. Or compel them to seek / accept treatment.

Institutionalized maybe. On the streets, nah.


Therein lies the problem!


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"When its time to shoot, shoot. Dont talk!"

“What the government is good at is collecting taxes, taking away your freedoms and killing people. It’s not good at much else.” —Author Tom Clancy
 
Posts: 8650 | Location: Attempting to keep the noise down around Midway Airport | Registered: February 14, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I sense a failure of officer training to point out that Tasers create sparks and should not be used in situations involving highly flammable substances.

flashguy




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Posts: 27911 | Location: Dallas, TX | Registered: May 08, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Wait, what?
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quote:
Family asks why this had to happen

Only they know the real answer, but I suspect they'll be mum on the subject. This isn't the first episode this guy has had; you don't go from completely normal to gasoline sponge in the heat of the moment.

And I agree, why send the law to calls like this? Sounds like a family matter...or maybe one requiring a lengthy soaking with a fire hose before any other force is applied.

What's that? You don't want us to water down your idiot son? Fine. We'll be outside with a charged line when he succeeds in lighting up proper on his own.




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Posts: 15980 | Location: Martinsburg WV | Registered: April 02, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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It's much easier to tell others what to do with their crazy family members than it is to actually do it.
 
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