Madison, WI (“Berkeley of the Midwest”) is in Dane County. Dane County supervisors just defunded the Dane County Sheriff’s Department Flock funding. This was just a few weeks after a local liberal rag ran a piece on the possibility of ICE being able to access Flock info. You know, to do their legally mandated job.

They certainly assist in criminal investigations.

When I retire in 9 years I plan to move to someplace that has no cameras and no reason to have them in the first place.

If there are any left.

quote:

Originally posted by Gustofer:

quote:

Originally posted by RichardC:
Two of them are in the parking lots of Lowes and Publix.

Several Lowes locations in MT seem to have them, which leads one to ask, "Why does Lowes need a license plate reader unless they are using/selling the data?" Perhaps it's time to stop patronizing Lowes.

Lubs me some good conspiracy theory.

Do you guys go to a special class to come up with this stuff? Hell yes, you should stop going to Lowe’s. Teach them a lesson.

There’re two outside the high school where my kid goes. I don’t know why anyone would want that info? And they are just outside of the sidewalk, so the city had to have allowed a business to install them.

I saw one near the intersection that is by the Walmart.

quote:

Originally posted by jljones:


Lubs me some good conspiracy theory.

Do you guys go to a special class to come up with this stuff? Hell yes, you should stop going to Lowe’s. Teach them a lesson.

Ha! "Go to class"? I'm a frequently invited guest lecturer, jlj.

You DO remember Lowe's being at the forefront of the select giant corporate entities allowed to operate during the Plandemic©, right? Raking in obscene $$$ while the independent Mom & Pop's were shutdown?

Lowes was totally in, advancing the propaganda to levels not seen in the USA since the Korean War. Signs in the parking lots, doors, bathrooms, shelves, everywhere, incessant blaring of The Word from PA systems indoors and out, mask-Nazi enforcers at every doorway, arrows on the floors, 6 foot-apart markers everywhere, free ethanol handwipes at every register, ropes and dividers,

and my favorite ... the procession of the masked employee with a safety flag in each hand walking ahead of the Global Industrial™ Auto Ride-On Floor Scrubber dispersing fumes of some gawd-awful WHO-approved disinfectant chemicals, choking and gagging the pathetic shoppers in its path right through their ineffective but mandated masks.

Good Times!


Oh, Yeah, no collusion with the Fauci-led .gov experiment in subjugating the populace, obscenely giving up their uniquely American rights of free assembly, Worship, free speech, etc?


(Oh, yes, there were a few brave resisting souls going down under the tidal wave of the well organized and funded onslaught. Yes, some will remember the Attilis Gym, Ian Smith and Frank Trumbetti)

https://sigforum.com/eve/forum...935/m/4620053074/p/1



Soooo...it would be surprising if Lowes were not at the forefront of corporate collusion with the rest of their fascist (classical fascist) ALPR-loving brethren and Big Brother.gov.

Am I right? am I right?

Stay tuned, I'll be tying Lowe's to UFOs and the Truth About D.B. Cooper in future threads.

quote:

Originally posted by chongosuerte:
They certainly assist in criminal investigations.

When I retire in 9 years I plan to move to someplace that has no cameras and no reason to have them in the first place.

If there are any left.

That pretty much sums up my take on them. When used appropriately, they can be very helpful in solving crimes, catching wanted people, and finding stolen vehicles. I've used them for all of these things.

At the same time, they are collecting a TON of data about the movement of the public (in the same way that modern toll systems, traffic cameras, cell phones, etc. do), and like any of those things there's huge potential for misuse, especially as AI, real-time data processing, and predictive algorithms become more capable.

I would rather live in a world without any of those things but I don't have the ability to turn back the clock or un-invent things...all I can do is make sure that I personally use them fairly and appropriately.

And yeah, when I do finally make it to retirement if there's a place left without all the crap, you and I will probably be neighbors.

Lowe's may be part of a conspiracy. There are two cameras at the local Lowe's. Occam's Razor says there is a simpler answer.
The local Lowe's takes up about 1/2 the parking lot with outdoor products. Having cameras pointed at the lot can help with theft investigations. I suspect that Flock installs the cameras at no cost to Lowe's in exchange to rights to all the video. Win/win for Lowe's and Flock. Of course we lose since Flock is monetizing anything it can and that does not bode well for us.

There was a teenage girl who disappeared in Pittsburgh last week. Phone records showed that she was communicating with some guy that lived hours away. They searched his license plate and sure enough, he was driving in her neighborhood the day she vanished. LE pulled a warrant and rescued her from his home.

For the first time I can recall PA is talking about requiring front license plates. I'm certain the effectiveness of these systems is a driving factor.

Our small town has two Flock cameras, it has helped with finding stolen vehicles, we can utilize it to search for specific vehicles suspected of being used in a crime. Such as how many blue Imapalas passed through town between midnight and 2am. Our agency can set the parameters that we want to look for, such as stolen vehicles, warrants and not things like expired tags or no insurance. It's a useful tool for proactive officers.

[Opinion]

Average Joe doesn’t care for the Flock cameras, because he doesn’t enjoy feeling like he’s being tracked, and that his every appearance in front of one of them is being recorded and logged. “Ain’t nobody’s business where I’m going and when!” And Average Joe is not wrong, despite the common refrain, “you’ve got no expectation of privacy when in public.” For Joe, it’s “you’ve got no reason to track me.” Again, not wrong. What business of my town’s is it, that I’ve driven by this particular location seven times today? None, really. I'm taking care of my business, the town should take care of its own. (Particularly this town... it's got plenty else to worry about other than my comings and goings!)

Private organizations like Flock. Gated communities like tracking who’s coming and going. “We’ve seen this truck enter the community five times this week, and nobody who lives here owns that truck. Might be something nefarious going on.” And it provides the nosy HOA Karens some [perceived] sense of security – “We know this car came into the neighborhood at 1 a.m. and doesn’t belong here!” Lowe’s can use the LPR data to track vehicles leaving during a certain period of time, for instance… say, right at the very same time Homus J Brown Jumped in his truck and hauled butt without paying for the pile of DeWalt goodies in his cart.

Law enforcement loves Flock, because it provides a method of tracking vehicles without necessarily doing it themselves. “We’re not collecting data on you, Average Citizen! (We’re simply paying for data someone else has collected, saving us some of the, um, hassles… don’t fuss at us!” To be fair to law enforcement: the data is invaluable when used to track vehicles reported as stolen, or involved in trafficking or other crimes, or other specific needs.

[/Opinion]

quote:

Average Joe doesn’t care for the Flock cameras, because he doesn’t enjoy feeling like he’s being tracked, and that his every appearance in front of one of them is being recorded and logged. “Ain’t nobody’s business where I’m going and when!” And Average Joe is not wrong, despite the common refrain, “you’ve got no expectation of privacy when in public.” For Joe, it’s “you’ve got no reason to track me.” Again, not wrong. What business of my town’s is it, that I’ve driven by this particular location seven times today? None, really. I'm minding my business, the town should mind its own. (Particularly this town... it's got plenty else to worry about other than my comings and goings!)

I would fit into that mold of Average Joe, while I do see how it helps find someone, it shouldn't be tracking me and my movements. It's a balance between freedom to travel without oversight, a basic tenant of being a US citizen, or being watched by governments for the purpose of safety.

The way you eliminate those freedoms is you exploit the data acquisition of peoples actions in the name of "safety for everyone"

Flock's data gathering seems Orwellian, and in fact, similar to the old Soviet Union "papers please" as the government seeks to make sure you are not someone they are looking for...

Exactly.

And I'm right there with you, in the Average Joe category.

I'd offer some smarty-pants comment like, "a little mud on a license plate goes a long way," but I'd certainly gather backlash from a few for it. And then there's the reality detailed in the article I referenced earlier: "Part of Flock’s proprietary tech determines the make and model of the vehicle and also notes if there are bumper stickers, bike racks, any other unique markings that would help identify that vehicle. That generates a “vehicle fingerprint” for every car or truck"

When I worked in commercial auto claims almost 10 years ago we had the ability to see every security camera that a license plate popped up on (If it was equipped for LPR) and there were a ton of them back then. I can only imagine now.

quote:

Originally posted by HRK:
...or being watched by governments for the purpose of safety.

Ben Franklin had a quote along those lines.

quote:

Originally posted by vthoky:

Average Joe doesn’t care for the Flock cameras, because he doesn’t enjoy feeling like he’s being tracked

Playing Devil's Advocate here:

Your phone is tracking you everywhere that you go, 24/7/365.

And yet all the Average Joes have one.

So it seems Average Joe doesn't mind being tracked/data harvested when they're getting a constant immediate benefit from it like entertainment and convenience, rather than a more nebulous community benefit like crime reduction, speedier case resolution, and increased public safety.



(Similar tracking, but one has become normalized while the other is controversial.)

You're not incorrect, Rogue.

I think there's some level of "my device is a tool for ME to use, so I accept its nefarious behavior" versus the (somewhat valid) perception that "someone else's tools are being used against me and I don't accept that."

And with respect to his own phone, Average Joe can take at least a few steps to reduce the tracking it does. The way to do that with someone else's camera, of course, is to disable it. (Not that I'm advocating doing that, of course. But you know it's been contemplated, if not actually having been done (yet).)

Agreed.

"I'm doing this to myself willingly (if unwittingly to some extent)" versus "You're doing this to me".

I believe we're pretty much on the same page, sir.

quote:

Originally posted by vthoky:
But you know it's been contemplated, if not actually having been done (yet).)

Oh, it's already a thing, most prominently in the UK. Teams of vandals nicknamed "Blade Runners" are going around with Sawzalls cutting down the poles of license plate reader cameras.

quote:

Originally posted by RogueJSK:

quote:

Originally posted by vthoky:

Average Joe doesn’t care for the Flock cameras, because he doesn’t enjoy feeling like he’s being tracked

Playing Devil's Advocate here:

So it seems Average Joe doesn't mind being tracked/data harvested when they're getting a constant immediate benefit from it like entertainment and convenience, rather than a more nebulous community benefit like crime reduction, speedier case resolution, and increased public safety.



(Similar tracking, but one has become normalized while the other is controversial.)

Yes but that's the individuals decision and acceptance of that, it's not law enforcement and government based data collection, tracking and if needed or wanted the ability to put all that data together and use to monitor movements, even though they have no warrant to monitor said persons movements.

Anyone can easily dump their Samsung/iPhone, get a non gps cheap cell if I want, or leave it at home, drive my 24 year old car without GPS on it but that's not the discussion as to who is monitoring and why, what happens to the data.

Governments and government law enforcement, federal, state or local should not be scanning peoples movements in the hopes of finding a criminal with a warrant for missing traffic court over a ticket that's unpaid.

Now, there will be the argument that they can use them to find the kidnapper of a a 10 year old girl by tracking his plate. Should that not require a magistrate or court order/warrant, then the cameras could look for that plate number, track the data and use it to find them and in court.

Yes FLOCK will then look at all plates, however FLOCK should immediately disregard any plate that isn't named, delete that data/not track store/sell/report data that doesn't fit the warrant.

This is about cameras on government/public property, the data acquired, what's done with it, who's profiting, how is it compiled, how will it be used now and in the future.

FLOCK on private property like Lowes stores should have to place signs that they are being used to track vehicles, and of course the language that entering the lot means you agree to being tracked, data sold etc. Then you can decide if you want to shop at Orwellian Hardware or not.