quote:

Originally posted by CPD SIG:

That “smart phone” that 95% of the people have in their pocket is collecting way, Way, WAY more information!

True, but that doesn't negate the issues with Flock and similar surveillance.

Let's say I and a few of my like minded friends like to get together to discuss something which the current government disapproves of. Maybe we're in Virginia and oppose the governor's new gun control. Or we believe there is/was rampant election cheating. Maybe we support an opposition political candidate. Maybe we oppose a lockdown for the upcoming Ebola crisis.

We can leave our cell phones at home while we meet. We can purchase coffee where we meet using cash so there is no data trail. The government cannot deduce that we are some kind of group that they don't like. But with vehicle tracking data they can.

It doesn't take too many data points to accurately identify a person's affiliations and associations. It also is easy to falsely identify someone as a member of a group just with coincidental location.

Here is an interesting video regarding Flock cameras from Louis Rossmann.

"Benn Jordan's flock camera jammer will send you to jail in Florida now"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qEllWdK4l_A

quote:

Originally posted by old rugged cross:

quote:

Originally posted by RogueJSK:
[QUOTE]
it's not really all that different from me sitting in a patrol car and typing in every plate that passes me.

Is this what your job initials?

I miss the days when the cops didn’t run your plate unless they had a reason…

quote:

Originally posted by CPD SIG:
I don’t know why the eye roll HRK.
That “smart phone” that 95% of the people have in their pocket is collecting way, Way, WAY more information!

FLOCK cameras are just a small part of the shit that’s tracking us.

Please don't take it personally, I did not mean it as a slight to you it's more about the constant "your cell phone tracks you" argument that we've tried to explain just isn't the same thing as FLOCK.

It's not about being tracked as a generalization per se, it's about who's tracking you without permission and sharing your data. That would be FLOCK, do you have a FLOCK app, did you click ok for a FLOCK TOS about how that data will be used, nobody did, some government agency did, and now they are tracking everyone, just about everywhere.

The idea that our decision to buy a smart device, load apps, accept a TOS, and agree to having our data and activities tracked is some how the same as a private company installing recording devices, tracking everyone's movements, providing governments, HOA and corporations with that data without your permission.

They are not the same, one we agreed to, the other nobody agreed to, governments immediately bit on having cameras record people, the "we can track bad guys" story and catch them faster is a great cover in order to allow a private company to track everyone, everywhere, and maintain a massive database of those movements, in the name of "safety".

VTHOKEY said it very well.....

quote:

Originally posted by vthoky:
For many of the rest of us, the potential overreach is unnecessary at best, and offensive later on.

* "You have no expectation of privacy when you're out in public."
Well, perhaps that's so. But neither should I expect that some multibillion-dollar corporation is cataloging every move of mine that it sees, selling that data off to other organizations (LE, insurance, marketing, nosy HOAs, etc) for purposes yet unknown (and likely counter to my own).

* "Your cell phone tracks you. Why do you complain about the Flocks?"
Because my phone is a tool I choose to use, acknowledging that it's likely doing things I don't want it to do, but recognizing that's a cost of my using it. It's a tool that's useful to me, for my purposes. The Flock system, on the other hand, is a tool used by others [potentially and likely] for purposes counter to my own.

Cell Phones and FLOCK are not the same, they don't have a TOS you agree to, they don't allow you to opt out, the supply governments with access to peoples movements without their permission..

Please stop saying it. Of course someone won't read VTHOKY and My comments on it and will post again "Your cell phone tracks you....."

Thank you, HRK.

^^^^

Some of the comments on that X post are pretty bold....

Big Brother.

quote:

The idea that our decision to buy a smart device, load apps, accept a TOS, and agree to having our data and activities tracked is some how the same as a private company installing recording devices, tracking everyone's movements, providing governments, HOA and corporations with that data without your permission.

HRK- Im not taking any of this personal.

You don’t think your phone is doing the same thing?

Think about this for a minute- and I’m not trying to be all “tinfoil helmeted conspiracy theorist”-

Circa 2001, a lot of cellphones did not have GPS capabilities. Remember the original flip phone, nokias?
Circa 2001-2003 there was a HUGE PUSH to get these new phones out that had GPS.
Hmmm… I wonder why.

Not that long ago when COVID was going to kill everyone:

https://developer.apple.com/do...exposurenotification

Tracked you, and people who you came in contact with.
“Find my phone” / location apps you have. Take a picture with your iPhone, share it, and there’s a GPS location on the picture, shared with your friends. Think someone isn’t tracking all of that information if they want?

But you (not specifically, but in general) turned off or restricted some of those Apps on your phone. Insert the Ray Liotta laughing gif here. Private and public entities can still track stuff.

Take a look at any phone now- there’s 2 or 3 high def cameras on the back. There’s also one on the front, looking at the user.

I don’t want to come off as a “tinfoil helmeted conspiracy theorist”, but there’s way, way more than just FLOCK out there, and way, way more ways to connect those dots.

Being a Cop for the last 30 years, FLOCK does make my job easier. I plug in a license plate and I can track that plate all over the city: now, an hour ago, a day ago, a week ago…
But FLOCK is just a layer of surveillance. There’s other ways too.
Having a very small “peak behind the curtain” with some of this stuff scares the shit out of me- especially the “who” (private and public) behind it.

Siri / Alexia devices in the house? Talk about something totally random- Hagen daas ice cream- see how many adds start to pop up. Oh, but the cell phone is “off”… watch adds pop up there too.
Amazon Shopping lately- see how that affects what’s popping up on your phone / computer.

GPS / Map / Travel apps on your phone? How do you think Google / Apple traffic works?
“Look, there’s a bunch of these little “pings” moving slowly in this area, traffic must be heavy.”

I also get the whole “just leave your phone at home” thing. And the amount of cameras out in public, and how those cameras are integrated with other cameras and “information collection technology”.
From public transport (buses, planes, trains) to private businesses even the Ring / Nest cameras on private homes.

Just a little too much “1984” for me.

^^^^^^^^



*ZoooOOO000OOOoooM*


Edited to add sound and carets.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: RichardC,

quote:

Originally posted by CPD SIG:

quote:

Originally posted by nhtagmember:

problem is, its not the government, its private companies doing this and the government is merely the a subscriber

we have no protections against private companies (we don't even have legitimate protection against the government)

THIS!!!! Sooo much THIS!!!

And if you’re bitching about FLOCK cameras, figure out what your cellphone is doing.

It IS the government.

The frequencies used by cell phones are controlled by the federal government. At the least, all cell phone providers should be required to have at least one option that doesn't require the user to give up all their privacy and consent to what I consider a sugar coated form of wire tapping and spying. These days, cell phones are considered essential. The federal government is in bed with all of these companies or we would have such an option.

quote:

Originally posted by CPD SIG:

quote:

The idea that our decision to buy a smart device, load apps, accept a TOS, and agree to having our data and activities tracked is some how the same as a private company installing recording devices, tracking everyone's movements, providing governments, HOA and corporations with that data without your permission.

HRK- Im not taking any of this personal.

You don’t think your phone is doing the same thing?

Think about this for a minute- and I’m not trying to be all “tinfoil helmeted conspiracy theorist”-

Not the same thing...

Phone - you bought it, you download apps, take it with you, your choice

FLOCK - private enterprise owns it, they have zero authorization from citizens to be tracked, they own the data, they sell the data to law enforcement and governments. That data tracks everyone's movements in the name of safety.

It's amazing to me that anyone that is an American Citizen is actually ok with their movements being tracked by a private company who sells that data to law enforcement.

quote:

Originally posted by HRK:
is actually ok with their movements being tracked by a private company who sells that data to law enforcement.

And to who knows who else.

- - - - -

quote:

Originally posted by nhracecraft:
https://x.com/WallStreetApes/s.../2061258645036560726

Let’s be honest: Once “the man” goes to hiding cameras inside construction equipment, “disabled” vehicles on the side of the road, and other such silliness, any trust that might have been there is even further eroded.

Wonder why Lowes (or any consumer business) would have plate readers, well, McDonalds answers that for you, they are running facial recognition and plate readers so they can remember who you are and track your ordering patterns.

Now what company might want to sell plate data of all cars in an area that pass a McDonalds, and then tie it to public records of vehicle ownership, then, if the state has your email, pass that on in the data, with your cell number so you can be texted when you approach McDonalds with a $2 off coupon if you stop in and get a Big Mac with Fries and a drink....

https://x.com/WallStreetApes/s.../2064051865831252047

^^^^

Another example of "just because you can, doesn't mean you should." I don't need "The Machine" at Mickey D's to recognize me or predict my order, or "talk to me" in the way we might prefer an actual person to do. That's a big, fat waste of AI and technology, in my opinion.

If we're going to put a ton of effort into AI and such, then let's have it do something truly useful, like help with cancer research or help make our military more lethal to our enemies.

Now. Add the facial recognition, plate-reading, and geofencing... then it's all just spooky. And still quite unnecessary.

Oh! And did we all notice the great big Disney/Hulu ad on the menu board during the ordering process? Geeze....

^^^^
Revenue, stock prices, cash, payola, this is more lucrative than a computer crunching cancer data coming up with a cure that would eliminate a multi billion dollar annual cancer treatment revenue stream.

and get government contracts to have a guaranteed revenue stream from your surveillance information, compile that data and use it to support your consumer based sales platform with patterns on vehicles that come by a business for marketing purposes.

https://x.com/WallStreetApes/s.../2065418848665510267

FoxNews article this morning: Smart street sensors could be watching your city next

NYC is expanding smart street sensors to study pedestrians, bikes, buses and cars, and other U.S. cities may follow


And in another article linked therein: Washington court says Flock camera images are public records.

Two articles I saw on another forum yesterday:

"Say hello to the new friend of Flock, Leonardo. It continues to evolve with more layers."
https://www.leonardocompany-us...pr/elsag-signaltrace

"‘You Will Not Speak on Flock Tonight’: County Commissioner Refuses to Let Residents Opposing Flock Speak at Meeting"
https://www.404media.co/you-wi...ck-speak-at-meeting/


- - - -

Here is an ugly one, linked inside one of the two mentioned above.
(Note: It's behind a "subscribe" button, but the first two paragraphs show up.)

Once the motion sensors kick in and the 14 pictures are taken, they sell the data (plate, vehicle, identifiable markings/decals) in real time.

Only personal identification info is reserved for law enforcement.

It is primarily focusing on the plate, but some plates may be harder to identify.