change was inevitable,
it's the one constant.

or
we could all be living in tepee's

I have 2 boys in Cub Scouts (Kindergarten - Lion and First grade - Tiger). I am on the Cub Scout committee and will be the Tiger den leader next year and an asst den leader for the Wolf den my first grader is going into. Our Pack committee has talked about this at length and will be admitting girls this fall. We decided to pass on admitting girls this Spring as we had too many other things on our plate. In our committee, 5 are in favor and 1 is opposed to letting girls in. I am in favor of it.

I see this as a great opportunity for siblings. We have many parents who drag their daughters to Pack meetings/camp-outs/events because they are too young to stay at home by themselves. The girls and all other family members have to participate in a different class at the Pinewood derby race as well.

We also have a few recruiting events at the school every year during lunch time and there are always girls who are interested in joining, but we have to tell them it's for boys only. It's quite sad to see a young girls face when you tell her, "Sorry, cub scouts is for boys only. No girls allowed."

We often see many members on this forum criticize businesses who fail to adapt to changing times and are forced to go out of business rather than adapt. I see this as the BSA adapting to the times. We will have separate dens for boys and girls, but the Pack meetings are together. I've seen several people in this thread refer to the Pack being separate for boys and girls, I don't believe this is the case. At least not in our Pack.

3 years ago (before I was involved) 2 of our local packs merged due to each being very small. We now have a Pack with about 50 or so boys. I believe it is stronger now.

We will be doing some recruiting events this Spring and Fall and you can be sure we are encouraging girls to join our Pack.

Thank God that discrimination will not be allowed in the sleeping choices during camp-outs.
You can sleep in any tent you identify with!

quote:

Originally posted by bendable:
change was inevitable,
it's the one constant.

or
we could all be living in tepee's

Are you bigoted against cultures that use tepees ?

[/sarcasm]

So it's Scouts BSA (Boy Scouts of America)? Same name just not a boy first?

quote:

Originally posted by RichardC:
As an Eagle Scout, I find this battle victory of the progressive movement detestable.

It was never about making Scouting better for girls.

Don't dissolve the Boy Scouts of America, restore it. Somehow. Someway.

Never give up.

I only made it to life scout but I agree with you. this was never about making girls stronger. It has always been about making boys weaker.

This is good news for the cub scouts, siblings and boys and girls together is fine.

But once you hit boy scouts, this is a stupid idea. teen boys are not going to listen or give a shit about learning camping, etc when there are teen girls around. Not to mention, quite honestly part of boy scouts is to raise good men. MEN. That means letting boys be boys, and growing into proper real men. Not PC pajama boys, but men, self reliant, alpha, moral, upstanding men.

This is the end of scouting.

quote:

Originally posted by Lord Vaalic:
This is good news for the cub scouts, siblings and boys and girls together is fine.

But once you hit boy scouts, this is a stupid idea. teen boys are not going to listen or give a shit about learning camping, etc when there are teen girls around. Not to mention, quite honestly part of boy scouts is to raise good men. MEN. That means letting boys be boys, and growing into proper real men. Not PC pajama boys, but men, self reliant, alpha, moral, upstanding men.

This is the end of scouting.

<snip>
Not PC pajama boys, but men, self reliant, alpha, moral, upstanding men.

Are you opposed to girls learning those same qualities?

Separate but equal?

quote:

Originally posted by 1967Goat:

quote:

Originally posted by Lord Vaalic:
This is good news for the cub scouts, siblings and boys and girls together is fine.

But once you hit boy scouts, this is a stupid idea. teen boys are not going to listen or give a shit about learning camping, etc when there are teen girls around. Not to mention, quite honestly part of boy scouts is to raise good men. MEN. That means letting boys be boys, and growing into proper real men. Not PC pajama boys, but men, self reliant, alpha, moral, upstanding men.

This is the end of scouting.

<snip>
Not PC pajama boys, but men, self reliant, alpha, moral, upstanding men.

Are you opposed to girls learning those same qualities?

Separate but equal?

Girls wont learn those qualities, lets not be naïve. They will feminize the boys, not butch up the girls. We all know where this will go.

We'll have to agree to disagree on this topic.

The Scout Oath or Promise
On my honor, I will do my best
To do my duty to God and my country and to obey the Scout Law;
To help other people at all times;
To keep myself physically strong, mentally awake and morally straight.

The Scout Law
A Scout is: Trustworthy, Loyal, Helpful, Friendly, Courteous, Kind, Obedient, Cheerful, Thrifty, Brave, Clean, and Reverent.

The Cub Scout Motto
Do Your Best!

I don't see anything above that would limit this to boys and not girls, but apparently I am in the minority on this topic here.

I think girls are also interested in camping, hiking, pinewood derby, and becoming strong leaders. Not to mention practicing their duty to God. I am not interested in "butching" girls or "feminizing" boys. Neither of which I believe will happen, at least not on my watch.

Furthermore, according to Scouting.org...

Purposes and Methods of Cub Scouting

The Cub Scouting program has 10 purposes related to the overall mission of the Boy Scouts of America – to build character, learn citizenship, and develop personal fitness:
1. Character Development
2. Spiritual Growth
3. Good Citizenship
4. Sportsmanship and Fitness
5. Family Understanding
6. Respectful Relationships
7. Personal Achievement
8. Friendly Service
9. Fun and Adventure
10. Preparation for Boy Scouts

I don't see how any of the above is limited to boys either.

Having male and female teenagers together on overnight campouts will require very competent supervision. While that might be possible for small groups (half a dozen?) I doubt that most Scout Leaders would be able to do it for a larger group. You'd have to put an adult in every tent.

flashguy

quote:

Originally posted by 1967Goat:
I don't see anything above that would limit this to boys and not girls, but apparently I am in the minority on this topic here.

I don't have a dog in this fight, but you are only quoting cherry picked items.

The BSA's stated purpose at its incorporation in 1910 was "to teach boys patriotism, courage, self-reliance, and kindred values."

Their Congressional charter is also specific:


It's also why there is a Girl Scouts program. The word 'Boy' was in the name of the group from it's founding up until yesterday.

And all MEN are created equal. That doesn't/shouldn't apply to women?

quote:

Originally posted by 1967Goat:
And all MEN are created equal. That doesn't/shouldn't apply to women?

What does that have to do with this?

You are saying there can be no voluntary groups that associate together? Every group and every program must be open to everyone? Is that the argument you are making?

The argument I am making is I do not see this as a bad thing. Getting girls interested in Scouting is not bad from my view. Nothing that I have been involved in with my time in Cub Scouts limits what the kids learn to boys only.

I really don't understand why so many on this board are so against girls joining Scouts. I think Scouting builds character. The more kids that can learn from what Scouting has to offer, the better, IMO.

I never said anything about "every group and every program".

quote:

Originally posted by 1967Goat:
The argument I am making is I do not see this as a bad thing. Getting girls interested in Scouting is not bad from my view. Nothing that I have been involved in with my time in Cub Scouts limits what the kids learn to boys only.

That's a valid argument.

Saying that it's discrimination or somehow unfair for there to be a group specifically for boys or specifically for girls is not.

I think that sometimes separate groups are OK - boys learn differently from girls. There are actual biological differences between boys and girls. Boys act differently when girls are present. All of those statements are irrefutable. For those reasons, I think a group, exclusive to boys, or exclusive to girls is OK.

The all-inclusive "Scouts BSA", for now. How far are we from non-binary Scouts? Just looking a wee bit down the road.

quote:

Originally posted by 1967Goat:

I really don't understand why so many on this board are so against girls joining Scouts.

Unless I missed it, you will note that nearly every critic posting in this thread is not currently a Scout or Scouter, and every poster that is currently involved with BSA is (mostly) supportive of including girls.

quote:

Originally posted by BamaJeepster:


I think that sometimes separate groups are OK - boys learn differently from girls. There are actual biological differences between boys and girls. Boys act differently when girls are present. All of those statements are irrefutable. For those reasons, I think a group, exclusive to boys, or exclusive to girls is OK.

Yep, and that is why, at the Troop level, they are segregated by gender. In Cub Scouts, each unit has the choice to either have a separate Pack for girls, or separate Dens for girls.

quote:

Originally posted by DrDan:
Yep, and that is why, at the Troop level, they are segregated by gender. In Cub Scouts, each unit has the choice to either have a separate Pack for girls, or separate Dens for girls.

That's what I don't get...If they are going to be separate, why not just start an affiliated group for girls (since the Girl Scouts didn't want to merge)? The GSA name was taken, but I'm sure they could have come up with another name for an affiliated girls group.