quote:

Originally posted by Pale Horse:
It is only a matter of time before we see mixed gender troops.

I don't know what will happen in the future, but I agree mixed-gender Troop's will be a disaster.

The good news is that the local leaders/charter organization set the tone and standard for their unit. As my son will be crossing over next year, I am carefully evaluating various Troops.


For those that want alternatives, there is

Trail Life

For those aligned with the Assemblies Of God:

Royal Rangers, though that only goes up through age 12. IDK if they have a similar program for older youth.

Supposedly the Latter Day Saints will be starting their own program to replace BSA, as well. I don't think it has rolled out yet.

quote:

Originally posted by Pale Horse:

quote:

Originally posted by ulsterman:
Boy Scouts helps forms the leaders of tomorrow. I don't care if they are male or female, gay or straight.

If you can't deal with that change, then move to another organization.

What other organization?

What are you going to tell me? To create my own? That is exactly what those of us who don't like the idea of girls being in the Boy Scouts have been telling girls all along. There is an organization for girls. It is called the Girl Scouts. It sucks. I know because I am a volunteer there too. But it exists and instead of making the Boy Scouts weaker they should have focused on making the Girl Scouts stronger.

The BOY Scouts should be for BOYS. If you can't deal with that then move to another organization. Or, you know, fix the one you already have.

If girls truly are every bit as capable as boys then they should be able to create a quality scouting program.

Answered your own question.

"It is called the Girl Scouts. It sucks."

No argument.

"If girls truly are every bit as capable as boys then they should be able to create a quality scouting program."

Did you really say that? Might want to flush your brain/mouth filter. It appears to be clogged.

So far around here it has depended upon where your troop was chartered out of...
For instance the troop out of the local Catholic Church is not accepting girls, but another troop out of a public school is accepting girls.

A Gender Reassignment Merit Badge is next.

Girls don't have cooties.

Don't about you guys, but I'm married to a girl.

Yep, I have quality guy time with my friends.

quote:

Originally posted by ulsterman:


"If girls truly are every bit as capable as boys then they should be able to create a quality scouting program."

Did you really say that? Might want to flush your brain/mouth filter. It appears to be clogged.

What’s wrong with what I said? Is there a reason girls can’t create their own successful organization? What is stopping them?

quote:

Originally posted by Pale Horse:

quote:

Originally posted by ulsterman:


"If girls truly are every bit as capable as boys then they should be able to create a quality scouting program."

Did you really say that? Might want to flush your brain/mouth filter. It appears to be clogged.

What’s wrong with what I said? Is there a reason girls can’t create their own successful organization? What is stopping them?

Lack of participation, lack of prestige, not enough members want to go hiking for a week in the Sierras, nobody will pee or poop outside, etc., etc., etc.

Refer here for further details: https://sigforum.com/eve/forums...0601935/m/3410070144

Several of you keep bringing up the Eagle Scout honor as the reason girls want to join Boy Scouts.

My fear, and this is coming from someone who did not achieve the honor, is that in 50 years Eagle Scout won’t carry any real weight. The program will be so watered down to allow for more females to achieve the rank that it will lose all meaning.

None of you arguing for girls being allowed in the Boy Scouts want me to be wrong more than I do. But I’m probably right.

Eventually the Boy Scouts will be like 4H. It will still be a good program and teach values and will still make fantastic memories for the boys and girls involved. It will churn out good citizens. But good is all it will be. It won’t be the great program that so many of us grew up in. Instead of having a great program for boys and trying to create an equally great program for girls I think all that’s been accomplished is to create a single mediocre program for both.

I don’t hate girls or think they have cooties or any silly nonsense like that. What I think is that boys need a place to be boys and to learn to be men from men. Probably today more than ever before they need it as our society constantly devalues and under appreciates the idea of manhood. There are places men can go to be without women but the opportunities for boys to be away from girls are quickly becoming extinct.

I will read the entire thread later. We at the Troop I am Committee Chair at are ready for this. The Scout Slogan, Motto, Oath and Law are unchanged. The BSA join every other organization in the World Scouting Movement, other than Saudi Arabi in being coed at all levels. Youth protection principles remain the same. If we can manage 14-20 year olds being outdoors coed we will manage 11-13 year olds. I have the honor of being Assistant Course Director (Assistant Scoutmaster) for a National Youth Leadership Training course this Summer. While not even close to 50/50, most likely only 15% young women make up our staff. I expect my Scouts to act Morally Straight, Helpful, Courteous, Obedient and Clean around females of all ages. Are there obstacles? Hell yes. To those who think this is a dollar grab, just try and guess how much the BSA will have to spend upgrading camp facilities. Even in a moderately resource rich Council such as Atlanta Area Council we do not have multimillions of dollars ready to spend on three Council and numerous District camps.

You want segerated youth outdoor experiences then seek out the few groups doing just that.
As was pointed out to me the BSA and GSA are EXTREMELY different organizations. From the top down, how money is handled, the program is developed, and policies formed these are two incompatible organizations.

If I ask what is the first thing you think of when I say Girl Scouts most would say cookies. When I say Boy Scout, it will be something along the lines of Eagle Scout, camping, hiking, or even straight laced.

And just so that I am clear about following Scouting ideals, I am not hiding behind my screen name, and Bravely proclaim these are the words of:

Marc Steven Shimabukuro
Troop 250 Atlanta Area Council
Troop Committee Chair
Proudly Chartered at
American Legion Post 160
Smyrna, GA

Eagle Scout, Troop 121 Lake Huron Area Council, Class of 1984
Unit Commisioner Downriver District Detroit Area Council
Wood Badge Course EC 409, Troop 1 Gilwell, Bobwhite patrol, busted ticket
20 year hiatus
Wood Badge Course 92-85, Troop 1 Gilwell, Bobwhite patrol, ticket completed 4-2018, beading ceremony TBA
N.Y.L.T. Assistant Scoutmaster (Assistant Course Director) week one Blue Troop, Atlanta Area Council. (Wood Badge third bead eligible upon course closing)



The benefit to the Boys youth is Demonstrating the Aims of Scouting in real life, not just in an abstract single sex environment.
The Aims of Scouting are:
Character Development
Citizenship Training
Physical Fitness

Of all the reasons and justifications I've read and heard so far, here and elsewhere, none have included a benefit for the boys.

quote:

Originally posted by darthfuster:
Of all the reasons and justifications I've read and heard so far, here and elsewhere, none have included a benefit for the boys.

I too would love to hear this.

quote:

Originally posted by darthfuster:
Of all the reasons and justifications I've read and heard so far, here and elsewhere, none have included a benefit for the boys.

Of course not. That is not the goal.

The goal is two-fold: Make girls feel better about themselves while bringing down yet another cultural standard. It has nothing to do with getting girls involved in scouting (they can do that already), allowing them to pad their CV with a coveted Eagle rank, or about money (as pointed out above).

This is about progressivism. Nothing more, nothing less. It frightens me how many people don't see this.

quote:

Originally posted by darthfuster:
Of all the reasons and justifications I've read and heard so far, here and elsewhere, none have included a benefit for the boys.

Isn’t that curious?

quote:

Originally posted by LS1 GTO:

quote:

Originally posted by Pale Horse:
What’s wrong with what I said? Is there a reason girls can’t create their own successful organization? What is stopping them?

Lack of participation, lack of prestige, not enough members want to go hiking for a week in the Sierras, nobody will pee or poop outside, etc., etc., etc.

Those sound like excellent reasons to not dilute the Boy Scouts by adding girls.

flashguy

So the Boy Scouts will become the Scouts, but they will be in single sex groups of Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts.

Hmmm isn't that back to where we started?

See my edited post.

quote:

Originally posted by detroit192:
See my edited post.

Well you kinda proved the point when you went ahead and put a line through boys to change it to youth. It’s not intended to be beneficial to the boys.

Do you feel like you were unable to teach those principles without girls around? Do you think boys will better learn those principles in the presence of girls?

Your argument is that integration makes it “real world” vs “an abstract single sex environment” and we’re supposed to accept everything that follows as a natural conclusion? Good grief.

Girls shouldn't be in the Boy Scouts.

The end.

Let the girls do their own outdoor thing, don't let the girls co-opt the Boy Scouts.

quote:

Originally posted by Gustofer:

This is about progressivism. Nothing more, nothing less. It frightens me how many people don't see this.

Good grief, does everything have to be about politics?