Good. This guy is a ass clown.

Evidently the Lt. was demoted to officer. I wonder if that is worse than being fired, pension-wise. Will his pension be based on trailing income, or rank at the time of retirement? I wonder what the point of the demotion was unless they are trying to motivate his retirement.

quote:

Originally posted by deepocean:
Evidently the Lt. was demoted to officer. I wonder if that is worse than being fired, pension-wise. Will his pension be based on trailing income, or rank at the time of retirement? I wonder what the point of the demotion was unless they are trying to motivate his retirement.

Most public safety pensions that I am familiar with are based on an average of the high years - usually two to five years, so depending on the income disparity between ranks, it could be minor or major. In my agency, top lieutenant pay is about $30k more than top officer pay.

Good. Fuck them both.

He should have been fucking fired.

I bet they're still in the "What the hell happened?" phase of the psychological response to crisis because up to the day before Ms. Wubbels released the video, Payne and Tracy probably thought they'd gotten away with their utterly reprehensible behavior.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but there is still an open criminal investigation into both, so I'm hopeful there's a chance for their lives can get worse.

Tracy, you were a DOUCHEBADGE, now you are just a common douchebag.

quote:

Originally posted by DaBigBR:

quote:

Originally posted by deepocean:
Evidently the Lt. was demoted to officer. I wonder if that is worse than being fired, pension-wise. Will his pension be based on trailing income, or rank at the time of retirement? I wonder what the point of the demotion was unless they are trying to motivate his retirement.

Most public safety pensions that I am familiar with are based on an average of the high years - usually two to five years, so depending on the income disparity between ranks, it could be minor or major. In my agency, top lieutenant pay is about $30k more than top officer pay.

Yep, Here in Utah his retirement pay is averaged by his best three years. The Lt's salary is likely right around $90-95k.

awesome news

I'm a nurse administrator in the local county jail. I or a member of my team does warrant blood draws for OWI cases on a near daily basis. We obtain verbal consent or we get a warrant, simple. Every cop I've ever worked with knows this. In speaking with the county attorney about this, his one word response was; "indefensible".

Pause for a moment while I put my anti-flame suit on....

We saw this guy on his worst day; everybody has them. Not to mention, unless I am missing something HUGE here, the officer was doing this with the blessing (and dare I say, encouragement) of his direct supervisor.

Personally I am about tired of cell-phone videos taking a snapshot of someone's life, and depending on the way pitchfork-nation is trending, costing someone their job. We are way WAY too quick take someone's livelihood away over a singular incident.

For everyone calling him a <pick a derogatory name> , have you never done something in your job that you think back on and say, "Damn...that was pretty fucking stupid. Very glad no one saw/heard what just happened".

Ronin:

I've thought about this a lot, and agree with the sentiment that lies behind it. But in this case, no. He needs to burn.

Having a bad day, and being wrong means he gets into a heated discussion with her, even maybe yells some insulting things at her. That's a bad day, coupled with bad judgment. It's worth a reprimand and maybe a suspension. It's potentially understandable in a junior officer who's just started his career, as is the "following orders" bit. This guy is a senior cop, with 20 years or so in. He admits he doesn't have PC and he still goes hands on, jacks her up, locks her up and stuffs her in the car.

That's the moment he got fired. The power of the state to direct force and financial resources against it's enemies is almost unlimited, and so misuse of force or those resources must be dealt with severely and without mercy. The only way that the public trusts the state with power is when the state uses power responsibly, and when the state rigorously investigates and punishes misuse of that power.

I just think what would happen to me (or to you, in your new position) if either of us were to step that far over the line. We would be canned before the boss stopped yelling. We would be escorted out of the building and our personal shit would be mailed to us in a box with the final check.

This guy has to go. He should keep what ever assets he has paid into (pension plan, insurance, etc.) but as a person wielding state power, he has to go.

Cops are entitled to make mistakes like the rest of us, but they are not entitled to make mistakes in bad faith (remember, he admitted he didn't have PC) that misuse state power and damage the trust of citizens in state institutions.

^^^^^

And that's why, "It takes 20 years to build a reputation and five minutes to ruin it. If you think about that, you'll do things differently."
-Warren Buffet

We all make mistakes, but some mistakes are a lot more egregious than others.

Thanks Artie -

I really appreciate your well thought out response. It's the perspective I was looking for to help better understand "why".

Everything ArtieS wrote, with one added element.

Payne deliberately bullied, and when that didn't work intimidated Wubbels. And when she stood her ground, he arrested her without cause or possibility of the case against her holding up in court.

The, in an even more disturbing action, while she was in custody Payne brought Tracy in to further intimidate and coerce her into BREAKING THE LAW HERSELF.

From where I stand, that is an attempt to coerce under color of authority a law-abiding citizen into becoming part of a criminal conspiracy.

For that, Payne and Tracy ought to spend time in the slammer.

quote:

Originally posted by ArtieS:


Cops are entitled to make mistakes like the rest of us, but they are not entitled to make mistakes in bad faith (remember, he admitted he didn't have PC) that misuse state power and damage the trust of citizens in state institutions.

This pretty much sums it up.

What is the latest on criminal charges?

------------------------------------

Ronin.

The whole "sorry guys just following orders" is a BS defense. If it's wrong it's wrong. And he knew it was wrong. because he said he didn't have probable cause.

Good or bad. Our law enforcement officers should be held to a fairly high standard. The whole he had a bad day so he arrested someone who he shouldn't have. Where's the line on that? Can he just arrest people or maybe Taser them? The fact is he acted like an overbearing asshole.

The bigger issue is he made ALL officers look like assholes. It's stuff like this that the talking heads love too point at and say "all police are bad guys."

Personally, I'm much more tired of folks like these two guys (officer and Lt) getting away with shit like this as they no doubt did before the age of cell phone videos. Instances of unfounded "muh authoritah" are themselves a cancer, and have always been rampant.

Until the video was released this was swept under the rug like countless other similar acts that have no doubt occurred in every town and in every state. Pretty much the only reason this was adequately handled was specifically because of cell phone videos.

No, sir, I'm 100x more sick of what's gone on all along before people were actually held accountable like this time. Praise cell phone videos, don't condemn them, as they and they alone seem responsible for this actually being resolved satisfactorily at all.

Shit, even now only one of the two dickheads were fired.

Nothing about this incident reeks of unfair fallout.

I hope that this is a good lesson for all officers, either they clean up their act on their own or we all suffer. I wonder why the discipline stopped with the lieutenant?

quote:

We saw this guy on his worst day; everybody has them. Not to mention, unless I am missing something HUGE here, the officer was doing this with the blessing (and dare I say, encouragement) of his direct supervisor.

Don't GAS what his supervisor said! In the military a subordinate is protected when he/she refuses to obey an unlawful order!

My understanding is that the "order" given to the douche bag cop was unlawful. End of discussion. Both should have been fired, immediately, and assault charges filed against, at least, the douchebag cop who followed an illegal order.

quote:

Originally posted by Ronin1069:
Pause for a moment while I put my anti-flame suit on....

We saw this guy on his worst day; .

But he knew, and so did his supervisor, what the law and procedure was.

Would you be as sympathetic if, on his worse day, a cop kicked in your front door without a warrant?