quote:

Originally posted by arcwelder76:
Redbones? You mean Drybones. I appreciate the idea but they got swamped. Blue Ribbon is OK. The Northeast sucks for BBQ after you've lived in the south. Oh well.

I've never needed a supermarket in Porter, the last 24hr big box was the South Bay Home Depot I thought. It's not anymore, because uh, theft.

Didn’t say I was eating there.

Oscar and rosco say
great days start at the refrigerator,

Too cute.

OK, you fuckers.

So.

This thread dropped to Page 3. I forget how long it took.

If I were a moderator on a Leftist board, and had expressed the opinions that I've expressed over time, where would we be?

Don't pat yourself on the back too fast.. Who here on SF is left, who is Left?

Is that a good thing?

I have to speak to my own experience trying to talk to the Left, and they are quick to expunge. Do we really need to do the same?

I say this, only because not only have I wholesale found Conservatives to be more tolerant, but frankly, we're a lot better armed against actual harm.

Seriously-

Can we go through the avowed leftists on SF, and talk about whether they did it to themselves? I'd like a review.

I need to make sure my memory is accurate.

Other than busting me, along with another member, years ago over a dust-up, we really haven't had much interaction. Over the years, I've read many of your posts, although not all, I don't seek out most of them, but do sit up and pay attention when talk turns to your knowledge of mil-surps.

I'm always amazed at the generosity of SIG Forum and its members and while any contributions or donations of gifts or money are nice, I'm particularly impressed when a member donates their time and labor as well as their money to another member. Arc, I recall at least one karma that you held in which your significant time and effort went into that labor which I believe says something special about you.

Having said that, are you an asshole...yes. You're not alone, there are plenty of us out there.

I'm not opposed to strong opinions, to some degree I seek them out, but only when they can be supported with facts in evidence, context, and perspective. There are some people who tend to use strong opinions as a bludgeon. As if having a shockingly strong direct opinion somehow adds more credibility or worth to a position or opinion, like bludgeoning that 'baby seal' just a few more times will somehow make it a more complete kill...I don't hold to that.

I believe its possible to hold and convey a strong informed opinion or position, without necessarily going out of one's way to offend by using strong imagery and harsh words.

There is absolutely a time when leaders lead and moderators moderate and that sometimes means being direct and short...but the trick is to know when to use an 8lb. sledge hammer and when to use Tack hammer.

quote:

Originally posted by arcwelder76:
I am tired of "sensitivity," I'm tired of "tolerance." I'd much rather face any slings and arrows from you assholes, and work out something, than just fold like a lawn chair to the PC Left.

quote:

Originally posted by arcwelder76:
If I gave the impression that I was concerned what you all think, I apologize. I do not.

What I'm after, is truth. To that end, I'd know mine enemy. If you cunts pass this up, you best hold your piece.

This isn't even about this board, but because this board exists in the world, it is. No, this is just about the social fabric.

Truth is what matters.

Truth, the pursuit of knowledge, facts.

quote:

Originally posted by arcwelder76:
In case anyone is wondering...

I stand for Freedom.

Arc, you seem to tack in a couple different directions in this thread so I'm not really sure what you are looking for. It seems clear that you aren't apologizing or feeling any remorse for anything you've said and you've also made it clear that you don't much care what any of us think so you obviously aren't looking for any constructive feedback.

Best I can tell is that you've got an Ever Ready Battery on your shoulder and you are daring members to knock it off.

About the only bone I've got to pick with you is inconsistency. Specifically, I'm referring to an incident one night in which a member posted a story late at night, I don't recall the specific details but the posted story basically came down to yet one more ugly example of man's inhumanity to man. Within minutes of the original post you posted your outrage, not at the story, but at the member who posted it...and the original post was quickly deleted by the member.

When thread titles accurately reflect the topic (the one mentioned above did) it is easy enough to decide whether or not to click and read.

For someone who claims to seek truth and stand for freedom you seem to have a low threshold for others doing so.

I have been thinking off and on about this thread since I first saw it a couple of weeks ago. I couldn’t decide to offer my thoughts earlier, but because it’s a cold and snowy morning with nothing else to do before shoveling the stairs later, here they are.

First is what it means to be offended. I’m not sure what it means to some people, but after thinking about it, I realize that for me it’s becoming angry about something that was directed at me personally or that affects me personally by infringing on my rights or doing something like impugning me directly or indirectly.

The thing that offends me (makes me angry) the most is unjust personal criticism. Accuse me of a mistake of action or judgement that is justified, and I will be ashamed, contrite, and do whatever I can to avoid the same mistake in the future. Accuse me of something I did not do or was otherwise not my fault, and my reaction is immediate and … well, reactive.

I will also take offense at things that are unjustly directed at the various groups I belong to. If someone says he’s never met an officer (especially a warrant officer), a gun owner, an atheist, a Subaru driver, an old “white” man, a police officer, a firearms instructor, or a member of some other tribe that I belong to who wasn’t stupid, arrogant, a know-it-all, inconsiderate, lacking in good judgment, didn’t torture kittens, or who didn’t exhibit some other failing, I will often become annoyed—which is a mild form of being offended. And the reason for my annoyance if that person doesn’t know me personally or doesn’t know I’m a member of the tribe in question? Part of it is that despite my best efforts to not react irrationally to irrational accusations, I am still human and subject to such responses myself (and is a failing I can be justly accused of). Another source of annoyance, though, is anger at the diseased thinking such attitudes demonstrate.

Diseased thinking—lack of logic and reason in our thought processes—is perhaps the most fundamental problem that has plagued humanity throughout our existence. Without it, most of the woes of the world would be greatly reduced, if not vanish entirely. And because the need for logical thinking and what constitutes it seem so obvious to me, my astonishment that it isn’t true of everyone often turns to anger, especially when the subject is an important one. That does not mean, however, that I always express my anger. In fact, and as one relatively trivial example, it’s only on very rare occasions that I will criticize the innumerable highly irrational comments that accompany discussions about religious matters, and then usually only if they unfairly impugn the members of the atheist tribe.

And after all that preamble, that brings me to the subject of your causing offense.

First, I’ll make clear that I personally have seldom been offended by anything I have read that you posted here, and in fact I can’t think of a specific example at the moment. There is something, though, that I am not sure is completely recognized, or at least is not a matter of concern.

There are very few people who remain members here long who don’t have a relatively high level of discipline, either self- or imposed. That means that few of us will engage in temper tantrums, launch personal ad hominin attacks on others, or consciously violate the unwritten, but obvious to anyone who pays attention, rules of conduct here. And part of that discipline is manifested by not challenging the authority of the forum’s overseers. There is obviously a difference between the authority of the owners and you as a moderator, but that doesn’t mean you aren’t treated differently than the members who have no authority to dictate anything. On one occasion long ago a question was asked about a subject that you felt was inappropriate, and you very clearly made known your displeasure and desire for the subject to not be discussed. That was the last time it was mentioned. Could anyone other than an owner or other moderator have made such a demand? No. The closest thing that ordinary members ever do is to stipulate certain conditions about the threads they start, or in extreme situations, to request that certain members not post there at all. But those conditions are requests, nothing more, and are sometimes ignored.


If you are wondering about others’ reactions to your positions and discussions of them here, you should recognize that although you’ll get far more pushback than the owners will, your comments are subject to far less challenge than my or any other “ordinary” member’s opinions and declarations would be. That’s a large part of the reason why I pay close attention to the policies of the forum, expressed or implied. I get more out of being an active member here than I would by expressing an opinion about almost anything I can think of. But lack of freedom to express criticism in any endeavor ranging from the inability of an armed forces officer to state his opinion about the President to the fear of being banned due to an injudicious remark to a site administrator can also be a source of resentment. And resentment contributes to becoming offended, and anger over that offense often gets manifested.

For whatever it’s worth, however, I applaud your willingness to raise this issue and consider the responses it produced. I don’t agree with all of your positions, but more than I do of many active members’, and I appreciate your insights on countless subjects.

Edit to correct subject/verb agreement.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: sigfreund,

I only remember having dustups will Sendac and Miliron, and I can't say with any confidence that they were avowed leftists, self or otherwise, but had great sympathy for leftist things.

They were dicks.

[drift] I've had some extensive conversations with Milliron. He's a good guy. We don't agree on everything, but he's a fine man, and I will stand up for my friend.

Besides that, he gave us the cat thread.[/drift]

I just read all 6 pages and, for the most part, I agree with them (except for Subaru drivers: they're all totally unaware of their surroundings at all times).

The thing that strikes me is when did we as a society become so fragile that a comment from some faceless internet poster requires us to judge them so we can feel good about ourselves?

My wife's opinion of me matters. The opinions of my kids matters. Above all, God's opinion of me matters. Beyond that, your opinion of me is your problem, not mine.

That said, I don't recall an instance when Arc offended me. Asshole? If you beat your wife or steal from your friends you're an asshole. If you disagree with me, good for you. You have an opinion. For you to reach the level of "asshole", you need to do something to others that you wouldn't want done to you.

Before anyone chokes on their granola, I used to have a Subaru. I wore a disguise every time I drove it. I realized that the car was slowly subverting my ability to drive so I unloaded it on an unsuspecting environmentalist. The fact that it was mechanically a POS didn't help either.

I'm glad for all the replies, and I'm glad that you guys have thought about this, but it's actually not a matter of me being concerned, it's a letting go. Yet, I'm a bit sentimental, a bit romantic, strange, right?

It's less about here at SF, and more about what I marinate in on the daily. Frankly on the whole, "conservatives" are more accepting of differing viewpoints and things they find offensive.

My intent wasn't to look for anything from anyone, just to open the gates and let any shit wash downstream.

People are trash. The problem is when people don't recognize they are trash. Few things are more abhorrent than someone who is vile believing they are righteous. But, those people exist across our political and "social activist" spectrum.

Can’t remember the source but there’s a bit of wisdom that goes (roughly) like this, “Some people don’t like you? Good, that means you’ve stood for something in your life.”

I can tell you have the ability to be a little rough around the edges based on your posts, or at least how I read them. I’ve never once gotten the impression that you’re just an asshole. I get accused of being too blunt but those bastards always know where they stand with me. I have no problem sleeping at night or looking at myself in the mirror. I get the sense you’re the same. March on Dude.

I have been here awhile, don’t post often. I do read a lot, here almost every day. It is my inter webs “home”
I would definitely have a beer or two with you. Geographically we are probably not far apart

At least I have integrity.

I've been here a long time, but don't post much.

I've pretty much always thought you were a major asshole.

But... As you have explained things, I'll give you the getting older shit. So, just a normal asshole then?