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California law bans small off-road gas engines, including lawnmowers and chainsaws Login/Join 
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quote:
Originally posted by Aeteocles:
quote:
Originally posted by SIGnified:


Ok lol … so silly but have at it. It’s still a free country for the moment


I'm just trying to be helpful. If we're going to sit around and call liberals stupid for mandating ridiculous rules, then we ought not to be caught making stupid mistakes in our arguments, right?
I would agree with you but you are only comparing the end result efficiency. It’s too difficult for most of us to even know about the efficiencies/damage to the environment farther upstream.

There was a study done a few years ago comparing the Prius to a typical car and the environmental impact both had on counting from getting oil out of the ground to the tank vs getting battery chemicals and electricity to the car and it was pretty eye opening.

Greenies just want to compare the final results but there is much more to it. They both have their downsides but for because someone sees an electric car go by which is super clean by itself they don’t consider what it takes to get it to that point.

Things like this.

 
Posts: 2692 | Registered: January 25, 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post
A Grateful American
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^^^

This is truth.


A magician relies on great preparation and effort to pull of the trick, the slight of hand and the final moment when the audience is in awe.

"Green" is mostly a magic show.




"the meaning of life, is to give life meaning" I could explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you. I'm gonna go to the Alamo
 
Posts: 41854 | Location: fl | Registered: December 20, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Fire begets Fire
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posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by sigmonkey:
^^^

This is truth.


A magician relies on great preparation and effort to pull of the trick, the slight of hand and the final moment when the audience is in awe.

"Green" is mostly a magic show.



An expensive one … on the grandest scale





"Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty."
~Robert A. Heinlein
 
Posts: 23209 | Location: Row 2F | Registered: February 04, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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And then add the fact that they DON'T want to use Natural Gas for power generation, they want to use Wind and Solar, which use an order of magnitude more energy over their entire lifecycle.

There is no "renewable energy" because if we reduce petroleum extraction from the earth, we have to extract more minerals to build the inefficient windmills and solar panels. The only viable "green" power source is hydroelectric but the same morons don't let us dam up rivers anymore due to fish migration and the drowning of rodents in the backup lake.

But guess what? Australia already did this. They took coal plants off line, converted to wind and solar, electricity prices have skyrocketed, and they cannot generate enough power consistently. So they are running diesel generators as backup power. And I'm willing to bet all that CO2 from the backup generators is not included in the "green math" the justifies the entire debacle.
 
Posts: 3292 | Location: Indiana | Registered: December 28, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Thank you
Very little
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It isn't about clean air, or greener environment, the movement and pressure from the leftist government into alternative energy is a well orchestrated long term plan to transfer political clout and funding from oil companies to progressive funded alternative power companies.

Laws that help e-lectric transport and solar will returns billions in campaign contributions to the D party from companies they back.

It's a significant shift in power, control and funding...



 
Posts: 17961 | Registered: November 07, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Lefty Sig:
And then add the fact that they DON'T want to use Natural Gas for power generation, they want to use Wind and Solar, which use an order of magnitude more energy over their entire lifecycle.

There is no "renewable energy" because if we reduce petroleum extraction from the earth, we have to extract more minerals to build the inefficient windmills and solar panels. The only viable "green" power source is hydroelectric but the same morons don't let us dam up rivers anymore due to fish migration and the drowning of rodents in the backup lake.

But guess what? Australia already did this. They took coal plants off line, converted to wind and solar, electricity prices have skyrocketed, and they cannot generate enough power consistently. So they are running diesel generators as backup power. And I'm willing to bet all that CO2 from the backup generators is not included in the "green math" the justifies the entire debacle.

Just like financial investing, diversity is the name of the game. Put too many of your eggs into one basket and you simply limit your flexibility to withstand unintended problems. Of all countries on the green-renewable march, Germany has been hailed by the Left as a model to emulate, their most recent national election completely pivoted around the green-renewable narrative while ignoring their electricity prices are the highest in the entire EU. For the voters, its all out-of-sight, out-of-mind. Go to any European port and the heavy industry infrastructure is far removed from where the tourist and high-priced real estate is.

Germany had 22-nuclear reactors in 2011, since then, they've closed 11, and plan to close the remaining before 2023. For all the windmill and solar panel (Northern Europe in the winter time Roll Eyes) farms built, coal usage has remained the same and natural gas usage continues to rise as its the main source of heating during the Winter months. Russia is the largest supplier of natural gas, and its ability to be a reliable supplier not to mention the ability to hold German/N.Europe hostage is a very real issue. Energy shortages are expected for this year given the uncertainty of natural gas supplies and with the lack of alternatives, European Green's have pushed their countries to the edge
 
Posts: 11927 | Location: Wine Country | Registered: September 20, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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It's possible that the upcoming chainsaw ban is already rippling into Colorado.

Last week I finally decided it was time to up our chainsaw game, and add a pro-line Stihl gas saw to our ranch-line Stihls. The pro-line saws are commonly used by fire crews. I finally found a metro-area dealer who had both of Stihl's model 400 and 462 saws in stock -- two of each on Monday. When I was at the dealer yesterday afternoon, they had sold one each of the 400 and 462. I bought their only remaining 400 model. The sales lady who helped me stated that selling 3 pro-line saws within two days was really unusual.
 
Posts: 7043 | Location: Colorado | Registered: January 26, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Fire begets Fire
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As long as people where modern clothes/fabrics, lightweight polymers … we’re going to be pumping a lot of oil & gas for a long time.

Look around you. Where do people think all the plastic comes from?

I bet just government uniforms and jackets in the state of California would blow your mind in the amount of petroleum used.





"Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty."
~Robert A. Heinlein
 
Posts: 23209 | Location: Row 2F | Registered: February 04, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by SIGnified:
As long as people where modern clothes/fabrics, lightweight polymers … we’re going to be pumping a lot of oil & gas for a long time.

Look around you. Where do people think all the plastic comes from?

I bet just government uniforms and jackets in the state of California would blow your mind in the amount of petroleum used.

I have a buddy who's wife was quite proud of her Patagonia clothing and 'what they stand for'. The conversation wandered down to how The North Face has stepped-into this virtuous fray by denying an oil company jacket sales for their employees due to their own stance on petroleum usage. She didn't understand the irony that we both were laughing about, finally one of us told her 'you do know what the main ingredient is for all those jackets?'

It didn't dawn on her - had no clue; didn't put it together that all the polyester and nylon, the waterproofing tech, the thread, zippers and buttons, all come from petroleum. It was a bit stunning to see this level of ignorance...and its all too common.
 
Posts: 11927 | Location: Wine Country | Registered: September 20, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
eh-TEE-oh-clez
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quote:
Originally posted by 1s1k:
quote:
Originally posted by Aeteocles:
quote:
Originally posted by SIGnified:


Ok lol … so silly but have at it. It’s still a free country for the moment


I'm just trying to be helpful. If we're going to sit around and call liberals stupid for mandating ridiculous rules, then we ought not to be caught making stupid mistakes in our arguments, right?
I would agree with you but you are only comparing the end result efficiency. It’s too difficult for most of us to even know about the efficiencies/damage to the environment farther upstream.

There was a study done a few years ago comparing the Prius to a typical car and the environmental impact both had on counting from getting oil out of the ground to the tank vs getting battery chemicals and electricity to the car and it was pretty eye opening.

Greenies just want to compare the final results but there is much more to it. They both have their downsides but for because someone sees an electric car go by which is super clean by itself they don’t consider what it takes to get it to that point.

Things like this.



Correct. I specifically mention it. If you want to argue against electrification, argue the lithium mining, the failing energy grid, etc and so on.

I am making a very singular and narrow point. You cannot argue that the electricity coming out of your wall socket creates the same amount of pollution as burning fossil fuels at the point of use. It is a very narrow point. But it comes up often.

Yes, I absolutely understand that there are a whole host of environmental impacts from the creation of batteries needed to take power from wall socket and make it useful in a car or power tool. But that is not the issue I am trying to address.

Every time someone says:

"These leftists are idiots, where do they think the electricity comes from?"

"All electricity generation creates pollution."

"Haha, these guys are idiots. There's a coal plant spewing smoke somewhere to charge their Prius."

...then they are starting the argument from a weak position.

If you want to argue the other stuff, say something like, "I don't think the cleaner grid energy offsets the environmental harm of lithium strip mining," or "We're just shifting the environmental burden of manufacturing batteries to places like China where they don't give a shit about protecting the environment," or even "this is stupid, our grid can't handle electrification and the excess demand is being met by falling back on burning coal and oil."

But setting up the notion that it still requires power from a wall, and therefore, still creates (equivalent) pollution is arguing from a position of dishonesty. Just don't mention it, argue something else. There's plenty to pick from.
 
Posts: 12316 | Location: Orange County, California | Registered: May 19, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Fire begets Fire
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I’ll say it again… Generating electricity causes pollution.

Just the O3 alone!

TANSTAAFL





"Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty."
~Robert A. Heinlein
 
Posts: 23209 | Location: Row 2F | Registered: February 04, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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30 years from now we will be lamenting the "tragedy of the mines". The NYT will do a series of stories about the child labor, slavery, unsafe conditions, injuries and death, destruction of the environment, contamination of heavy metals into the water supply, a generation of brain damaged kids, and so on in the 3rd world countries that do all the mining. Then they will look at the piles of dead batteries in the US, and the cost of recycling them, and the contamination of earth and water near the disposal sites, and how the disposal companies cut corners and didn't do the job they were supposed to.

And there will be wringing of hands about how this was all necessary to save the earth from global warming. Which will be evidenced by the fact that none of the predicted disasters actually happened and the earth is not appreciably warmer. They will call this a "success" but they will fail to mention that the atmospheric carbon dioxide levels didn't actually go down, but continued to rise. They will use % reductions in the rate of increase over the past few decades to make math challenged people believe the actual levels went down.

And the environmentalists will protest the "rape of the earth" at the mines, and demand a new energy system that is "clean and renewable" and blame the "facist corporations" for creating this mess...
 
Posts: 3292 | Location: Indiana | Registered: December 28, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Muzzle flash
aficionado
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posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by corsair:
quote:
Originally posted by SIGnified:
As long as people where modern clothes/fabrics, lightweight polymers … we’re going to be pumping a lot of oil & gas for a long time.

Look around you. Where do people think all the plastic comes from?

I bet just government uniforms and jackets in the state of California would blow your mind in the amount of petroleum used.

I have a buddy who's wife was quite proud of her Patagonia clothing and 'what they stand for'. The conversation wandered down to how The North Face has stepped-into this virtuous fray by denying an oil company jacket sales for their employees due to their own stance on petroleum usage. She didn't understand the irony that we both were laughing about, finally one of us told her 'you do know what the main ingredient is for all those jackets?'

It didn't dawn on her - had no clue; didn't put it together that all the polyester and nylon, the waterproofing tech, the thread, zippers and buttons, all come from petroleum. It was a bit stunning to see this level of ignorance...and its all too common.
The same people don't know that milk comes from cows, not bottles in the store, and meat from animals, not packages in the market.

flashguy




Texan by choice, not accident of birth
 
Posts: 25762 | Location: Dallas, TX | Registered: May 08, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Ammoholic
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by bigdeal:
quote:
Originally posted by Rightwire:
You could always do it with a scythe. Zero emission tool.
The solution is goats. Everyone needs to get a couple goats. Problem solved.

Depending on where one lives, the mountain lions and coyotes may greatly approve this message.
 
Posts: 5822 | Registered: February 23, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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