SIGforum.com Main Page The Lounge ATF proposing to ban/restrict pistol “braces.” Very short comment period: Please get involved.
Main Page The Lounge ATF proposing to ban/restrict pistol “braces.” Very short comment period: Please get involved.Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
Member |
I think there is highly likely that this will get shot down by the courts, especially after the very recent 5th district court overturning the bump stock ban in which a lot will also apply to the bump stock fiasco. It's almost like the ATF wants to entrap millions of owners of firearms that were perfectly legal when they bought them in the last few years after the ATF cleared the way to widespread manufacture and distribution. Then there is also the huge question of separation of powers and the ATF legislating law on the fly. The video below IMO is very good on explaining why this will very likely be shot down. | |||
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Fighting the good fight |
Will it be shot down within 120 days? Nope. It probably won't even make it to presenting formal arguments within 120 days. That'll all get eaten up with preliminary motions, discovery, and other legal wranglings. And is it 100% guaranteed to get shot down? Nope. Meanwhile, as the various lawsuits and challenges wind their way through the court system, that 120 day amnesty period's clock keeps running. So you roll your dice and you take your chances. Either register within the next few months for free, or separate the brace from the pistol and bank on it getting eventually shot down so they can be reunited legally, or I guess just say "fuck it" and keep on doing whatever you want, consequences be damned. | |||
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| Lead slingin' Parrot Head  |
This first video was posted in the other ongoing thread, about 3 weeks ago, but I believe it is appropriate to this discussion. West Virginia vs. EPA and the Major Question Doctrine. @ 10 minute analysis https://m.youtube.com/watch?ti...NDI&feature=emb_logo Most of us haven't had time to read the new PSB rules yet and I don't know if the final rules will negate the concern in the below video (posted 3 months ago) but, with the current discussion on how, and whether to comply, it's at least worth considering before making a decision. @ 8 minute commentary https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zLpixM2M5lc | |||
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Member |
I think that's why they went with the 120 days. To entice people to go with registration, knowing after 120 days it will cost 200 bucks and they will be felons. Regards, Kent j You can learn something from everyone you meet, If nothing else you can learn you don't want to be like them It's only racist to those who want it to be. It's a magazine, clips are for potato chips and hair | |||
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| Member |
"Neither the form nor the accompanying instructions for the brace amnesty registration include anything about uploading a photo of the firearm with brace." Straight from the instructions... "To confirm the application qualifies for tax-free registration, ATF may require additional supporting documentation, such as photographs of the firearm to be registered." “So in war, the way is to avoid what is strong, and strike at what is weak.” | |||
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| Fighting the good fight |
That's standard language from the Form 1, even before all this. It says they may require it. Not that they do require it. Again, I have yet to see any specific indication that the ATF is requiring a photo of the braced pistol when submitting this eForm 1 for the amnesty. And before you start arguing again, hrcjon, know that I just ran 98% of the way through a brace amnesty registration eForm 1, just to see.  | |||
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| Member |
not arguing at all. I'm happy you pointed out that its already live. I didn't check the std. F1 language to see it matched that's what just struck me in the first look. Given that its up I guess I am screwed on the regular F1's I had in mind to get done this month... I was stunned the system was still up and operational when I went to look. “So in war, the way is to avoid what is strong, and strike at what is weak.” | |||
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| Member |
Rogue, Cold you post a link to the brace form? all I can find is the standard form1. Regards, Kent j You can learn something from everyone you meet, If nothing else you can learn you don't want to be like them It's only racist to those who want it to be. It's a magazine, clips are for potato chips and hair | |||
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| Member |
This has to be one of the dumbest gun laws on the books and there are plenty. Do braces really pose any type of extra threat what so ever. Kinda like Short barrel rifles. OMG someone could sneak one in since it’s a couple inches shorter. Give me a break. | |||
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Shall Not Be Infringed |
It's an eForm1, so NOT a downloadable PDF. You'll have to create an eForms Account to access it. I believe you'll need to 'pretend' you're filling it out in order to view it. ETA - I just created an eForms account, and after you log in you select the icon for the form you want to fill out. When you select eForm1, it asks if you are intending to file pursuant to ATF Final Rule 2021R-08F. There was more verbage I don't remember, but it mentioned tax-exempt and pistol brace as I recall. Anyway, when you acknowledge/select ATF Final Rule 2021R-08F version, it redirects you and you log back in directly to the Pistol Brace Tax-exempt version of the eForm1. ____________________________________________________________ If Some is Good, and More is Better.....then Too Much, is Just Enough !! Trump 2024....Make America Great Again! "May Almighty God bless the United States of America" - parabellum 7/26/20 Live Free or Die! | |||
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| Member |
OK, thanks Not sure how I will figure it all out. I do appreciate the clarification. Thanks Regards, Kent j You can learn something from everyone you meet, If nothing else you can learn you don't want to be like them It's only racist to those who want it to be. It's a magazine, clips are for potato chips and hair | |||
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Frangas non Flectes |
While you're rubbing your hands together with glee, I'll take this opportunity to tell you I have exactly one gun with a brace on it, and it's because I bought it that way this last June. I've got several guns I'm going to do a Form 1 on, and I don't think I'm going to take the gamble on the "free tax stamp" for the one because as I read it, that's your route to an SBR as an individual, not through a trust. I've long expected them to go after braces, but I'm not going to celebrate that it finally happened. I don't really have any skin in this game, but my position is solidly "fuck the ATF." If you wanna simp for a three letter agency and gush at the idea of gun owners being targeted, that's certainly your right. What it gets you, I have no idea and I don't think you could explain it in a way that looks good on you. ______________________________________________ Carthago delenda est | |||
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| Shall Not Be Infringed |
I just test drove the Pistol Brace Tax-exempt version of the eForm1. I does have instructions for Trust filing, so you can file as a Trust. It states the Pistol Braced now-SBR needs to be owned by the Trust prior to the ATF Rule, but that's just a matter of having it on the Schedule as far as I'm aware. I assume it would state the same ownership requirement for an individual as well. The Firearm just needs to be purchased prior to the publication of rule in the Federal Register in order to qualify as Tax-exempt. ____________________________________________________________ If Some is Good, and More is Better.....then Too Much, is Just Enough !! Trump 2024....Make America Great Again! "May Almighty God bless the United States of America" - parabellum 7/26/20 Live Free or Die! | |||
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| Member |
Anddddd once we get these registered as SBR's, we get to file a another ATF form to be able to take it outside of the state we reside in and we are not allowed to carry it to states that have laws banning SBR's and if I have read the rules properly you cannot even transport them through said states. Major Cluster flake! The “POLICE" Their job Is To Save Your Ass, Not Kiss It The muzzle end of a .45 pretty much says "go away" in any language - Clint Smith | |||
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| Shall Not Be Infringed |
^^^And, while a loaded 'Pistol' is OK to have in your car, and Loaded SBR is NOT legal in many (most?, all??) states, so there's that too! ____________________________________________________________ If Some is Good, and More is Better.....then Too Much, is Just Enough !! Trump 2024....Make America Great Again! "May Almighty God bless the United States of America" - parabellum 7/26/20 Live Free or Die! | |||
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| Frangas non Flectes |
Interesting. So, if I got my trust established this last week, and haven't done anything with it yet, I'm out of luck? Or is that time limit at the end of the 120 days? Navigating all this NFA stuff for the first time with this curveball thrown in... this is a engineered minefield. ______________________________________________ Carthago delenda est | |||
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| Leatherneck |
Hey fellas… For the most part we are all on the same side here. Of course we don’t agree on everything but I’d bet that if we all got to vote on abolishing all gun control laws and the ATF, as a forum, we’d pretty much be 99.9% for their demise. The laws are the laws. The decisions are the decisions. I have not decided what I’m doing yet but I personally would love to have a discussion about the situation without anyone taking questions or comments personally. “Everybody wants a Sig in the sheets but a Glock on the streets.” -bionic218 04-02-2014 | |||
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His Royal Hiney |
I guess you don't know that arm braces are like bump stocks and make guns fully automatic assault weapons. At least some congress people think so. Can you feel Massie's frustration arguing with these people? "It did not really matter what we expected from life, but rather what life expected from us. We needed to stop asking about the meaning of life, and instead to think of ourselves as those who were being questioned by life – daily and hourly. Our answer must consist not in talk and meditation, but in right action and in right conduct. Life ultimately means taking the responsibility to find the right answer to its problems and to fulfill the tasks which it constantly sets for each individual." Viktor Frankl, Man's Search for Meaning, 1946. | |||
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| Shall Not Be Infringed |
From the ATFeForm1 Page:
There was a separate instruction/acknowledgement that indicated that any Trust would need to have all relevant documents establishing the Trust executed and notarized prior to January 13, 2023 as well. On my Trust, all Trust property is listed on 'Schedule A'. While that document is signed and dated, I have NEVER submitted a 'notarized copy' of this document to the ATF. Here's something to think about: Prior to yesterday, all these Pistols w/ Stabilizing Braces were not regulated by the NFA, so why would they be listed on a Property Schedule of an NFA Trust? IANAL, but regardless, you would be well advised to consult with the attorney that did your Trust on this. Hope this helps. ____________________________________________________________ If Some is Good, and More is Better.....then Too Much, is Just Enough !! Trump 2024....Make America Great Again! "May Almighty God bless the United States of America" - parabellum 7/26/20 Live Free or Die! | |||
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| Member |
Just reading the above post is more than enough reason for me to not do any of that. I'd have to do all that for something that I legally bought that was okay in the eyes of the ATF at one time? Insanity. Correct me if I'm wrong here but I thought I may have read somewhere that the companies that are making theses braces submitted a brace for ATF approval and everything was hunky dory at that time? Maybe I'm wrong and didn't read that. If I did read that and I'm correct, why in the name of Hell would I now register something that was fine in the beginning? It's a moot point to me anyways as I'll never register it. I counted the days and May 14th I become a felon. I won't be alone I'm sure. No tough guy act, I just refuse to have any firearm or accessory I own be on the NFA list. I don't own a suppressor or anything just for that reason alone. What will happen? Who knows. I'd rather be hated for who I am than loved for who I'm not. | |||
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SIGforum.com Main Page The Lounge ATF proposing to ban/restrict pistol “braces.” Very short comment period: Please get involved.
Main Page The Lounge ATF proposing to ban/restrict pistol “braces.” Very short comment period: Please get involved.© SIGforum 2024