And another question….

Let’s say my friend has an AR pistol with a brace and he is hopeful it will be overturned so he doesn’t jump through the hoops. If not overturned, he is willing to pay the $200 for an SBR or just keep it as a pistol.

To comply with the law while waiting for the court process to take it’s course after 120 days and it drags on, he removes the brace to be in compliance. Now, beyond 120 days, will the ATF apply the “Constructive Possession” bullshit that says if he has a brace in the basement and a pistol in the garage as far as they are concerned he has an illegal “SBR”???

quote:

Originally posted by 911Boss:
And another question….

Let’s say my friend has an AR pistol with a brace and he is hopeful it will be overturned so he doesn’t jump through the hoops. If not overturned, he is willing to pay the $200 for an SBR or just keep it as a pistol.

To comply with the law while waiting for the court process to take it’s course after 120 days and it drags on, he removes the brace to be in compliance. Now, beyond 120 days, will the ATF apply the “Constructive Possession” bullshit that says if he has a brace in the basement and a pistol in the garage as far as they are concerned he has an illegal “SBR”???

As I read it, somehow you're supposed to remove the brace and render the pistol so that it can't accept one.
I have a friend too who isn't doing Jack shit no matter what happens.

quote:

Originally posted by pedropcola:
I was responding to sig2340 who thinks those videos are out of line, over the top. I don’t agree.

I did not state the videos were "over the top" I was pointing out factual inaccuracies in the titles.

The rule does not "ban" pistol braces.

The rule did not make "millions" of Americans into felons; in fact no one is yet a felon because of this rule.

That's a timing question. But in a redirection has anyone tried doing one of these in Eforms yet? There are lots of changes in status section. I'm wondering if to get around the long delay they are going to do some new pending status. I might have enough energy to drag something out later tonight and give it a go, but wondering if anyone already has....

^^^And if anyone has, or does, maybe someone could post some screenshots of what constitutes changes from the std. Form 5320.1 (Form1), IF that's even possible w/o revealing personal data in the case of an eForm. I've never done an eForm so I don't know if it's one question at a time, or if you can view/enter data on the entire page randomly until complete. It would be nice to know what to expect so I can have all the req'd info/data/measurements, etc ahead of time, otherwise I'd expect the first time through will be a LONG time!

To be honest, I wouldn’t jump on doing one of the new eforms. I understand wanting to get in early before the surge, but the rule isn’t even published yet, and there is a very high chance that an injunction will be granted pretty quickly by a judge to place a hold on implementation while it makes its way through the courts. I doubt the government will be able argue a basis for implementing immediately as opposed to waiting for the courts process, since it would just be the status quo that’s been in place for years. If there is an injunction, I’d imagine that those eForm 1s would be canceled because without the rule being in effect, there is no basis for waiving the $200 tax.

quote:

Originally posted by nhracecraft:
^^^And if anyone has, or does, maybe someone could post some screenshots of what constitutes changes from the std. Form 5320.1 (Form1), IF that's even possible w/o revealing personal data in the case of an eForm. I've never done an eForm so I don't know if it's one question at a time, or if you can view/enter data on the entire page randomly until complete. It would be nice to know what to expect so I can have all the req'd info/data/measurements, etc ahead of time, otherwise I'd expect the first time through will be a LONG time!

I think the only difference is that there is a new additional checkbox at the top for exempting paying the $200 tax. That box is already checked when you enter the special “red button” eForm they set up just for this. Other than that, it should be the standard eForm 1, without the payment screen at the end.

This should explain it.

https://www.atf.gov/rules-and-...cewithqapdf/download

I wonder if they're stil going to allow the tax-free F1 with a trust vs. individual. Because for sure, I'll put everything on my existing trust with my wife and kid as beneficiaries. No more taxes or transfers

I don't necessarily want to beat the surge as much as I'd like to take advantage of the FREE Tax Stamp(s) while it's still in force. Honestly, I don't care how long it takes after it's submitted. And unless it's determined that the ATF doesn't have authority to waive the tax, I assume once you've submitted the form they can't just say, nevermind, too bad, so sad, thanks for providing all your info for our database.

Fuck this... I already have SBR's, suppressors, SBS's, etc. and I need permission to take them out of state to other states that allow them, I have to control who can access them, who can possess them, I need to "carry my papers" even though they are engraved and have a serial number, etc.

I am done. I am not playing their games any longer.

As has probably been said already in this thread (have not read the whole thing), what about the poor chump that bought a pistol in the Wu-Flu hysteria, but isn't a gun guy and has no idea this is going on?

If all this passes and this rule stands, then I will be a felon. Doesn't bother me one bit.

Until they knock on my door, I am not worrying or losing sleep over this.

Boz, Yep. I agree. As JLJones once said unless you are sitting on a pallet of cocaine you will be fine. ATF ain't coming to your home. They ain't coming for 922(r) either. I have tried my whole life to follow the rules but when the rules constantly change I don't really care to comply. I shouldn't need to get a law degree and spend hours every day to make sure I haven't run a foul of the three letter guys and the rules they make up on items I purchased legally with their damn blessing years before.

Free men don't ask permission. My Braces will stay where they are.

quote:

Originally posted by Dwill104:
I think the only difference is that there is a new additional checkbox at the top for exempting paying the $200 tax. That box is already checked when you enter the special “red button” eForm they set up just for this. Other than that, it should be the standard eForm 1, without the payment screen at the end.

This should explain it.

https://www.atf.gov/rules-and-...cewithqapdf/download

I thought they wanted to know what type of brace, method of attachment to the receiver, adjustability, 'shouldering surface' area/dimensions, and a bunch of other shit in order to determine if it actually 'qualifies' for the Tax-exempt Stamp based on the criteria for the new Pistol Brace(ed) SBR rule. Stated another way, I was under the impression that, as part of the approval process, they wanted to determine if the firearm already met the 'existing definition' of an SBR, and if that was the case, you would NOT be eligible for Tax-exempt Stamp, thus requiring you to pay the $200 tax. Unless they're hiding something, or that document isn't entirely accurate, that's 'almost' too easy!

So is there any difference then at this point between an AR with a brace and an AR with a stock?

quote:

Originally posted by PGT:
I wonder if they're stil going to allow the tax-free F1 with a trust vs. individual. Because for sure, I'll put everything on my existing trust with my wife and kid as beneficiaries. No more taxes or transfers

I had a similar thought, but wouldn’t your braced pistol have needed to be already possessed by / transferred to your trust before the rule was “published”?

quote:

Originally posted by gw3971:
Boz, Yep. I agree. As JLJones once said unless you are sitting on a pallet of cocaine you will be fine. ATF ain't coming to your home. They ain't coming for 922(r) either. I have tried my whole life to follow the rules but when the rules constantly change I don't really care to comply. I shouldn't need to get a law degree and spend hours every day to make sure I haven't run a foul of the three letter guys and the rules they make up on items I purchased legally with their damn blessing years before.

Free men don't ask permission. My Braces will stay where they are.

I'm not saying you're wrong but what with the current climate at ATF-Mafia Central they won't at some point come for you?
Certainly, there have been several incidents where ATF intimidation has been documented.
IMO, given the chance and the agenda of the Commie-Dem regime they will do everything they can to Eff with us.
I hope I am wrong and we right the ship.

and its the same after you SBR it. You might as well just put a stock on it and toss the brace. Why would you run a brace at that point.
I partially did an efile under the brace rule and the only change I see is that the box of kind of tax paid is already filled in.
BUT there is a completely new set of qualification questions that exist under both 'amnesty' and non amnesty versions of the F1. To one of the above you don't need any additional info above the normal F1 that I can see...

If someone was theoretically planning on registering an sbr through normal methods anyway, would it make sense to take advantage of the free and easier registration?

quote:

Originally posted by smschulz:
...but what with the current climate at ATF-Mafia Central they won't at some point come for you?

Ummm...no.

Millions of braces have been legally sold, either as aftermarket parts, part of a package, or as OEM. There is no registration of these braces, they are not serialized.

If by some miracle the ATF somehow figures out a way to track down owners and "come for us", we will have far worse problems than mere pistol braces.

ATF won’t be coming for anybody; they’ll certainly prosecute someone not in compliance, but they’re not searching house to house for anything. Anyway, all I own are pistols in 120 days, and they won’t be in any registry. If shit ever goes even more sideways to where they attempt confiscation, those will be where they start.

quote:

Originally posted by ScotP7:

quote:

Originally posted by PGT:
I wonder if they're stil going to allow the tax-free F1 with a trust vs. individual. Because for sure, I'll put everything on my existing trust with my wife and kid as beneficiaries. No more taxes or transfers

I had a similar thought, but wouldn’t your braced pistol have needed to be already possessed by / transferred to your trust before the rule was “published”?

it's not NFA-controlled so I can do that anytime (or remove it anytime)